Posts from MMH5.5 - Heroes of Might and Magic 5.5
Auto-translated
Hello, I downloaded and installed the rc15b2 mod. I've wanted to try it for a while because of the city rebuilding mechanic due to the new portal in the cities. Before this, I played the TE mod a long time ago. I played on a large Jebus map against the AI, as Inferno. The hero was random, and the difficulty was set to maximum. Here's what I liked:
1. These are the new objects on the map that add to your army. I haven't fully understood how they work yet, but it seems like they randomly add tier 1-4 creatures, with the number of creatures increasing each week. I hope the increase in creatures in these "banks" is fixed after a certain week; otherwise, it would be advantageous to capture this bank before attacking an enemy castle to get the maximum number of units. If the bank's growth is not limited by the number of weeks, then it's not right because it loses its meaning in the early weeks. I think this bank should grow to its maximum in 4 weeks (1 month) in the starting zone and another 4 weeks (2 months) in the treasure zone.
2. These are the new mechanics of city rebuilding, the portal to the city, and the dragon blood crystals, as well as the large number of artifacts (I hope the game has many powerful artifacts for each race, and not just a few that everyone wants to get, as in the original Heroes 5). I don't understand why the hero's skill tree was changed if it doesn't add an additional slot for an artifact. It feels like work was done for the sake of work, in my opinion.
3. Surprisingly, I liked the new wheel, although there are a few controversial points, which I will mention later in the "cons."
4. The new magic system seems balanced at first glance.
These changes have positively affected the game; it gains more variety and unpredictability, making it more similar to Heroes 3 in terms of tournament play than Heroes 5 and Heroes 5 TE (where who gets the best artifacts first decides the outcome).
Now, what I didn't like or what breaks the balance:
1. The most annoying thing is that there are overpowered heroes, practically for each race, sometimes even two per race.
If you've made so many overpowered heroes, then let's make one overpowered hero for each class; otherwise, it will be impossible to start a game with a random hero, and everyone will just pick the overpowered one. I'm talking about overpowered heroes who clear the map without losses, very quickly.
2. The mod authors have made it possible to capture and rebuild cities, which is great. BUT, on the Jebus map, I captured and rebuilt 2 cities in the first month. In 2 months, I built 3 cities, upgraded everything in my main city, but I didn't have enough money to buy all the creatures, even though I captured all the gold mines (2 on the starting location) in the first week. I built a Capitol and the maximum building in the other cities. I cleared the treasure and starting locations, sold artifacts, but it still wasn't enough to buy all the creatures from the three castles. This shouldn't happen, in my opinion. I can suggest that when you make a contract with a mill, it should bring in 5000 instead of 1000 per week. Naturally, the contract amount should increase to 2500. You could also add gold mines near the additional castles and allow building a Capitol in a non-native city.
3. There are skills that are very weak and don't offer a choice in upgrading! (The mod author wanted to move away from this, but repeated the same thing as in the original).
The first thing I noticed is in a skill that is important for all races, such as War Machines. The First Aid Tent is very weak and doesn't make sense to upgrade; it heals very little and cannot resurrect a level 6-7 creature on week 2. The Plague Tent is generally useless because it's better to use the tent's shots to resurrect, which is very rare. The Ballista always wins against the Plague Tent and the First Aid Tent.
If the author works on these points, this mod could become the best among similar mods. Thank you for your attention.
1. These are new objects on the map that add an army. I haven't figured out how they work yet, but it seems like they randomly add tier 1-4 creatures, with the number of creatures increasing each week. I hope the increase in creatures in these "banks" is fixed after a certain week; otherwise, it would be profitable to capture this bank before attacking an enemy Castle to get the maximum number of units. If the growth of the bank is not limited by the number of weeks, then this is not correct because it loses the meaning of defending it in the early weeks. I think this bank should grow to a maximum of 4 weeks (1 month) in the starting zone and another 4 weeks (2 months) in the treasure zone.
The strength of opponents grows with time.
The creature given as a prize is fixed, so you won't get more troops later in the game. However, the quantity is randomized within a specific range, so there is a bit of luck involved.
2. These are new mechanics: city rebuilding, a portal to the city, and dragon blood crystals, as well as a large number of artifacts (I hope the game has many powerful artifacts for each faction, and not just a few that everyone wants to get, as in the original Heroes 5). I don't understand why the hero's equipment was changed if it doesn't add an additional slot for an artifact. It seems like work was done for the sake of work.
You can check all artifacts in the manual. It is currently only in English, but the next release will include a Russian translation too.
4. The new magic system seems balanced at first glance.
We accept any feedback on how it can be further improved.
Now, what I didn't like or what breaks the balance:
1. The most annoying thing is that there are overpowered heroes, practically for each of the factions, sometimes there are 2 per faction.
If you've made so many overpowered heroes, then let's make one overpowered hero for each class; otherwise, it will be impossible to start the game with a random hero, and everyone will choose the overpowered one. I'm talking about overpowered heroes who clear the map without losses, very quickly.
Please provide a list of the heroes and a description of why they are IMBA. I can agree that some heroes are stronger than others.
Also, if you have any proposals on how to improve them without removing the hero's specialization, it will be welcomed. I can't promise we can do it, but we are dedicated to making the balance better as long as it doesn't break the lore or make the heroes too similar.
2. The mod authors have made it possible to capture cities and rebuild them, which is great. BUT, in the first month on the Jebus map, I captured 2 cities and rebuilt them. In 2 months, I built 3 cities, made all the improvements in my main city, but I didn't have enough money to buy all the creatures, even though I captured all the gold mines (2 on the respawn) in the first week. I built a Capitol, the maximum building in other cities. I cleared the treasure zone and the respawn, sold artifacts, but it wasn't enough to buy all the creatures from the three Castles. I don't think this should happen. I can suggest that when you make a contract with mills, they bring in 5000 instead of 1000 once a week. Naturally, the contract amount should increase to 2500. You can also add gold mines near additional Castles and allow the construction of a Capitol in a non-native city.
This is done on purpose. Limiting gold makes resources important throughout the game, not just in the early game like in Heroes 3. Resource deficit forces the player to choose where to invest his income, which brings a whole new set of choices. This also makes heroes with Resource/gold specializations very important.
Regarding the Jebus template, any advice on how to make it more like Heroes 3 Jebus is welcomed! Our experience with Jebus in H3 is not much.
3. There are skills that are very weak and don't give a choice in upgrading! (The mod author wanted to avoid this, but repeated it similarly to the original).
The first thing I noticed is in a skill that is important for all factions, such as Battle Machines. The First Aid tent is very weakened and doesn't make sense to upgrade; it heals very little and cannot resurrect a creature of level 6-7 on week 2. The Plague tent doesn't make sense at all because it's better to use the shots from the tent to resurrect, which is very little. The Ballista always wins against the Plague tent and the tent in general.
- Plague tent is a weak perk - we know that, and we are working on a solution.
- First aid skill was nerfed to 3 casts, but the overall healing strength was improved, so currently, those 3 casts heal as much as what used to be 10 casts in ToE. This change was needed as expert players used it to snowball the army potential. Even at 3 casts, it is the most desired skill by Might heroes. Furthermore, since RC15B2 version, the First Aid skill gives the hero the "Medical supply bag" artifact. It revives some of the tier 1 and tier 2 creature losses after every battle for a small amount of mana.
- Ballista is a good skill, but now, after the RC14 change where all creatures got 25-30% more HP, its edge in terms of killing stacks has been reduced.
If the author works on these points, then this mod can become the best among similar mods. Thank you for your attention.
Thank you for the good words! We try to stay away from making changes that do not improve the quality of the game, so sometimes we keep such decisions for later releases or when a good enough solution is found.
P.S.
As you have a tournament background, I would also like to say that we have maps only for duels; you can read more about them here.
Strength of opponents grows with time.
Creature given as a prize is flat so you wont get more troops later in the game. However the quantity is randomized in a specific range so there is a bit of luck too.
This is important information for me; where can I read about the mechanics of banks and their bonuses?
You can check all artifacts in the manual. It is currently only in English but next release will include Russian translation too.
Ok, I'll wait for the Russian manual regarding artifacts.
Please provide a list of the heroes and description why they are IMBA. I can agree some heroes are stronger than others.
Also if you have any proposals on how to improve them without removing the specialization of the hero will be welcomed. I cant promise we can make it but we are dedicated to make the balance better as soon as it does not break the lore or make the heroes too similar.
I skimmed through some specializations, and Bart stands out for the dwarves—mega IMBA with the appearance of elementals after the death of tier 1 units; with such a specialization, he doesn't even need a tent. You encourage gameplay with summoning + light magic (which has regen and resurrection) + logistics, while the Inferno race has no light magic and a useless tent. No Inferno hero will be able to level up as quickly or break through huge armies as fast as Bart for the dwarves without significant losses. I haven't looked closely at other races yet, it's too early to say.
This is done on purpose. Limiting gold makes resources important through the whole game not just early game like in heroes 3. Resource deficit forces the player to choose where to invest his income, this brings a whole another set of choices. This also makes heroes with Resource/gold specializations very important.
I haven't encountered heroes who bring money; you have created significant randomness that will affect the final battle. Either the map is not suitable for PVP. I played on Jebus, which is installed with the mod. I already suggested increasing income from mills via contract, or adding buildings to the Castle, or placing 2 gold mines near every city. In the second month of the game, it is impossible to buy out all growth from all castles, and I don't think heroes with money specializations will help fix this, especially since the hero recruitment cost is 5500!
In regards to Jebus template, any advice on how to make it more like Heroes 3 Jebus is welcomed! Our experience with Jebus in H3 is not much.
- Plague tent is a weak perk - we know that and we are working on a solution.
- First aid skill was nerfed to 3 casts but the overall healing strength was improved so currently those 3 casts heal as much as what used to be 10 casts in ToE. This change was needed as expert players used it to snowball the army potential. Even at 3 casts it is the most desired skill by Might heroes. Furthermore since RC15B2 version First Aid skill gives the hero "Medical supply bag" artifact. It revives some of the tier 1 and tier 2 creature losses after every battle for a small amount of mana.
- Ballista is a good skill but now after the RC14 change where all creatures got 25-30% more HP it has its edge reduced in terms of killing stacks.
You weakened the ballista and the tent, but these were important tools for races that do not have access to light magic to minimize losses in difficult battles in the early and mid-game, when tempo is crucial. If you gave the dark races necromancy, let the raising of the dead work as it does for the Undead. This would be an analogue for regen. Or allow the study of regen without knowledge of light magic. In any case, a good player's army in Heroes will always grow like a snowball; you need to make it so that this growth is roughly equal across all races, rather than pushing someone ahead in this metric.
As you have a tournament background I would also want to say that we have a maps only for duels, you can read more about them here.
Duel mode isn't particularly interesting, as I believe there are already several excellent mods for duels that are being actively developed. Your mod has great potential for strategic PVP on maps similar to Heroes 3.
This is important information for me; where can I read about the mechanics of banks and their bonuses?
Okay, I'll wait for the Russian manual for artifacts.
I quickly read about some of the specializations for the Dwarves, and Bart stands out; he's a mega-imba with the appearance of elementals after the death of units, and he doesn't even need a tent with that specialization. You are encouraging gameplay with summoning + light magic, which includes regeneration and resurrection + logistics, but the Inferno race doesn't have light magic and has a useless tent. Any Inferno hero won't be able to gain levels and defeat large armies as quickly as Bart can for the Dwarves without significant losses. I haven't looked at the other races much yet; it's too early to say.
I haven't encountered any heroes that bring in money; you've created a significant amount of randomness that will affect the final battle. Either the map isn't suitable for PvP. I played on Jebus, which is installed with the mod. I've already suggested increasing the income from mills through contracts or adding buildings to the castle or placing two gold mines near each city. In the second month of the game, it's impossible to buy all the upgrades from all the castles, and I don't think that heroes with a specialization in money will help fix this, especially since the cost of hiring a hero is 5500!
If the income from mills isn't increased, then more banks for money should be added to the starting map, and also create full-fledged maps for other castles, where there will be mines, banks for money, and banks for creatures.
The attempt to strengthen the tent with an artifact is unsuccessful because you have added many artifacts that are much stronger for creatures than this artifact, which takes up a valuable slot on the Hero's equipment. Otherwise, you must significantly strengthen the artifact so that the player prefers it to the others. You weakened the ballista and the tent, but these were important tools for races that don't have access to light magic to minimize losses in difficult battles in the early and mid-game when tempo is important. If you gave dark races necromancy, let raising the dead work for Undead as well. This will be an analogue of regeneration. Or allow regeneration to be learned without knowledge of light magic. In any case, the army of a good player in Heroes will always grow like a snowball; you need to make sure that this growth is approximately the same for all races and not favor anyone in this indicator.
2. The mod authors made it possible to capture and rebuild cities, which is great. BUT on the Jebus map, I captured 2 cities and rebuilt them in the first month. In 2 months, I built 3 cities, made all the improvements in my home city, but I didn't have enough money to buy all the creatures, even though I captured all the gold mines (2 on the starting location) in the first week. I built a Capitol, the maximum building in other cities. I cleared out the treasure and starting locations, sold artifacts, but it wasn't enough to buy all the creatures from the three castles. I don't think this should happen. I can suggest that when you make a contract with mills, they should bring in 5000 instead of 1000 once a week. Naturally, the contract amount should increase to 2500. You could also add gold mines near additional castles and allow the Capitol to be built in a non-native city.
In general, this map is very small (although the name says it's large), and the initial settings for the strength of the monsters are very weak.
Try to familiarize yourself with ARMG Manual V2.3, creating large-sized maps, setting the number of resources and buildings, as well as their value. And, accordingly, the strength of the monsters. Follow the recommendations from the manual when creating, everything is described in detail there. And in the future, based on your experience, make the game more difficult for yourself by increasing the strength of monsters >1, reducing the number of resources, reducing the number of artifact locations, and increasing their value.
Now, what I didn't like or what breaks the balance:
1. The most annoying thing is that there are overpowered heroes, practically for each faction, sometimes there are 2 per faction.
If you made so many overpowered heroes, then let's make one overpowered hero for each class, otherwise it will be impossible to start a game with a random hero, and everyone will choose the overpowered hero. I'm talking about overpowered heroes who clear the map without losses, very quickly.
Everyone probably has their favorite heroes that they prefer (but in this case, there are such heroes in each class of each castle, and not just 1 specific hero). And some are good for a quick start and a quick game, while others are only good in long games. And in general, the developers did a good job of balancing.
I haven't looked at other factions yet, it's too early to say.
indeed, it's too early >>>
1. The most annoying thing is that there are overpowered heroes, practically for each faction, sometimes there are 2 per faction.
Criticism is good, but it should be constructive and based on a thorough understanding of the game.
This is your observation specifically for this large-sized map (1vs1) that is initially in the list of available maps. One can partially agree with this; there isn't enough money for everything. But in this case, this resource limitation forces you to spend them wisely, on the necessary goals, and not to buy the entire army and all buildings every day. But for other maps created in the generator, this is not the case.In general, this map is very small (although it is called large), and the initial settings for the strength of the monsters are very weak.
Try to familiarize yourself with ARMG Manual V2.3, creating large-sized maps, adjusting the number of resources and buildings, as well as their value. And, accordingly, the strength of the monsters. Follow the recommendations from the manual when creating, everything is described in detail there. And in the future, based on your experience, make the game more difficult for yourself by increasing the strength of monsters to >1, reducing the number of resources, reducing the number of artifact locations, and increasing their value.
Everyone probably has favorite heroes to whom they give preference (but in this case, such heroes exist in every class of each castle, and not just one specific hero). And some are good for a quick start and a fast game, while others are only good in long games. And in general, the developers did a good job balancing.And criticism is good, but it should be constructive and based on a thorough understanding of the game.
Of course, there are favorite heroes, but if you constantly play with one hero, the game will get boring faster, and this is not balance if there is one hero who is stronger than the others. I liked that in the mod there is a division into strength and magic; this is great, but if you play as a strength hero for Inferno, you immediately put yourself in a more disadvantageous position compared to a hero with summoning. Darkness will not help much at the beginning of the game; only machines will help. I think this skill is essential for strength heroes, but machines are very weak; why? And magic is very strong in the mod. Also, the mod author has increased the number of heroes, which makes it impossible to choose a random hero before loading the map, because if you are unlucky, it is 100% a loss. I think it is necessary to add an option to choose a random hero from one class, if possible, before loading the map. This mod has been in development for a long time, and the fact that the author has started to pay more attention to balance is pleasing.
You didn't read what I wrote. I wrote that it's impossible to buy out the entire army from three castles when all zones and territories have been cleared, for the final battle. Furthermore, you suggest spending resources wisely, but as I mentioned before, I didn't buy out the entire army; I fought all battles using fire elementals and two stacks of archers. Regarding not building structures daily, you consider this a correct strategy. Heroes 5, even from the original game, encourages players to build daily because the races are very unique, and the game doesn't encourage mixed-race armies, unlike Heroes 3. If you don't like this or don't understand it, you should play a different version of Heroes. Moreover, in this mod, this necessity is increased due to the ability to convert enemy castles into your own. Any reasonably good Heroes player will strive to build all creature tiers as quickly as possible, with Necropolis being a possible exception. Regarding the map, the mod author himself recommends it for PvP. I started playing it only because of this, and after playing it, I left my feedback here on the forum; what's wrong with that? I'll try ARMG, but if the template is the same, I don't think much will change. Regarding the strength of monsters, balance is also needed here. If the monsters were stronger, playing against Gnomes with Bart as Inferno would be even more unbalanced, and the income of money would slow down even more.
Of course, there are favorite Heroes, but if you constantly play with the same hero, the game will get boring faster, and this is not balance if there is one hero who is stronger than the others. I liked that the mod has a division between strength and magic; this is great, but playing as a strength hero for Inferno immediately puts you in a less advantageous position compared to a hero with summoning. Darkness won't help much at the beginning of the game; only machines will help. I think this skill is essential for strength heroes, but machines are very weak; why? And magic is very strong in the mod. Also, the mod author has increased the number of Heroes, which makes it impossible to choose a random hero before loading the map because if you're unlucky, it's a 100% loss. I think it should be possible to add an option to choose a random hero from one class, if possible, before loading the map. This mod has been in development for a long time, and the fact that the author has started paying more attention to balance is pleasing.
Everything described further is meaningless because you didn't even read what I wrote. You should have stopped at the complaint about the heroes of all races when you had only familiarized yourself with Inferno.
All the best.
Even back in Heroes 3 (or perhaps even earlier, as my acquaintance with the series began with the third installment), cities were divided into production (army) and income (money) types, with magic sometimes being an additional option.
Moreover, in Heroes 3, this distinction is even more pronounced, as even the starting (production) city is not advantageous to develop into an income city (unlike secondary cities) – this conflicts with the pace of building production facilities.
In Heroes 5, due to the limit on building levels, developing production does not conflict with income in the starting city (unfortunately), but nevertheless, the division into income and production cities is still relevant for secondary cities.
Why should all cities be production-focused and aim for a complete buyout?
And why should all tiers be built and purchased immediately in production cities?
This can only be explained by the desire to extract the absolute maximum from all cities, but then the question arises: why should this be easy or even achievable?
At this rate, we'll end up with Gal Civ III, with planets divided into production, commercial, and research types xD
Why should all cities be production-focused and aim for a full buyout?
And why should all tiers be built and purchased immediately, even in production-focused cities?
This can only be explained by a desire to extract the absolute maximum from all cities, but then the question arises: why should this be easy or even achievable?
It is known that QuantomasAI does not work when playing in LAN. I am creating a multiplayer map (216x216) for 6 players. I understand that it can also be played with fewer players. Are there any AI mods that are **compatible with LAN games and, in particular, with this mod**? If not, I don't want to go off-topic, but are there any alternatives to solve the problem of the dumb AI on large maps in the context of the 5.5 mod? (I am proficient in scripting).
Good afternoon!
It is known that QuantomasAI does not work when playing in LAN. I am creating a multiplayer map (216x216) for 6 players. I understand that it can be played with fewer players as well. Are there any AI mods that are compatible with LAN games and, in particular, with this mod? If not, I don't want to go off-topic, but are there any alternatives to solve the problem of the dumb AI on large maps in the context of the 5.5 mod? (I am proficient in scripting).
No alternative solution is currently available :(.