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Yes, it will be possible later. When you reach the green and black tents, let the brown heroes visit them; this is necessary for further progress. I initially did this at the green tent, but it's difficult (I think it's even impossible) to win on the cursed land. However, it's quite possible at the black tent. I first attacked the brown hero at the black tent on the desolate lands and then replayed it. But before opening the black tent, you need to prepare. As for the fairies, I defeated them on level 237 with 50 archdevils and hypnosis. It took a long time; I started with a group of 400. But a lot also depends on the skill tree. At that point, my spell power was exactly 20. I could only hypnotize 1 fairy, so I surrounded myself with 2 of these level 1 units and attacked from there. It took a long time to get the right setup. Although, it wasn't necessary to kill this group first; you can start with the group of 350. If you need anything, feel free to ask; I still have the saves, and I can check what and how it was done.
Yes, I figured it out yesterday; this is the only working way to defeat the fairies. I don't have that much spell power, so I have to attack with a berserker and an intellectual; she has low attack, but a lot of mana. I also took a level 1 mage with me to save mana. It was long overall. I first defeated those guarding the utopia and the library because you can use the terrain to have 1 fairy cover the others.
I liked the battle against the hero who initially chases us, whom you free by killing the second group of fairies near the brown tent, with the sniper bow. It was a tough fight; everything depended on luck.
Seriously, facepalm. Where were you 10-15 years ago when there were awesome offline Tournaments with map Walkthroughs for speed, which were held here and on HeroeSports. People didn't engage in this kind of nonsense; there was real skill!
About 12-13 years ago, I was in the top three and even won offline Tournaments, although on a different site - HeroLeague. But back then, there were no signs of a unified Heroes community site. And I don't share this concept of "the grass was greener back then." Rather, the opposite is true; the set of tricks and techniques, both related to bugs and not, has grown significantly. At a minimum, this is reflected in the physics engine, which has grown significantly in content and in the number of people who use it over the past 10 years. And the level of maps has grown... but if you don't play them, how will you see it? What appeared 10-15 years ago from hardcore maps that comes to mind is only Xiedu - and even then, few people completed it, but now there's The Last Crusade, Metataxer's Revenge, a bunch of Chinese maps, puzzle maps from RoseKavalier, Obi, wenwell - all of them appeared after 2010. And even in online games, there's a sharp increase in quality and skill. The champions have changed - before, you could admire Maretti and ATG, but now they're not dominating everyone. Except perhaps Stinger and Bishop, who have consistently been strong, probably since the time of the dinosaurs), but their level has also increased. In short, it's not worth dwelling on the past and drawing conclusions based on examples taken out of context.
Is it possible to place "Titan's Thunder" in an event, Pandora's Box, or a Seer's/Scholar's Hut, or as a scroll? It's not in the list of spells in the standard editor, of course.
50+ battles, you'll have to play it exclusively with level 6424 heroes and periodically restore their level after it resets, the map describes in detail how to do it. Important - the map is only playable with the SoD_SP plugin.
I will be grateful for feedback, the welcome message on the map contains contact information, you can write either there or here in this thread.
Just during the New Year holidays, I remembered how to move the knights - both online and checked out the new maps - from LC and Obi. Both immediately have problems - it's important to understand what you're dealing with.
LC's map looks very interesting, but when you reach the 2nd (or 3rd?) battle with dragons, where the strat mentioned many times above, wenwell's or the quick-combat bug allows you to defeat the dragons with 2 pegasuses, questions arise about self-determination. Is it necessary to use this bug? Is it implied by the map, because there is still at least one use left? After all, the author insists on using SOD_SP, which by default has the option enabled to restore the quick bug, which was fixed in HD (or HD+). In general, this is always a difficult question, which bugs can be used on which maps.
But Obi's map doesn't raise such philosophical questions. Honestly, I didn't understand the map at first - some battles were easy, and then you find yourself in a dead end, WTF? I read the comments on one of the battles in the Rins group on VK, and it turns out that the battle is not so straightforward and easy. You start thinking further, and it turns out that there are alternative solutions, that the puzzle has a second level of solution. And then it is also spiced up with restrictions on mana and movement points, and it turns out that even the second level of solution is not enough, and in fact there is a third . In short, I'm delighted. Some (and there are many) battles are just brilliant. And at the same time, they do not require knowledge of any bugs, but require a good knowledge of the mechanics and courage in experiments. Also, very long solutions are not implied - any battle, if you understand the solution, takes a maximum of a couple of minutes. However, I must say that I haven't played through much - only 2 days in 3 directions + testing 2-3 battles on the 3rd day. And here is a small fly in the ointment - this is connected with that damn battle on the abuse of firewall and champions. The only battle in which there are so many options for arranging your stack(s) and the firewall before the first turn of the champions. I spent about a day in the stage of denial of this battle - I didn't even want to approach it. Then I checked the options for all the hexes of the initial arrangement for one stack (well, for such approaches, but when there is nothing else) and the most logical arrangement of the wall - I only came to the understanding of how the battle is passed if you separate and substitute 1, which, of course, is not a solution, since the next quest requires passing without losses. And yes, I haven't passed this battle yet, and I don't have much enthusiasm for it. IMHO, there should be a hint for it, "13 or less" - this is most likely a restriction on the number of uses of firewalls so that there is enough mana for the rest of the battles, but this is not very good. This is not a reference to the I3 hex - it is not particularly remarkable, there are more interesting hexes. The arrangement option on 1+3 (this is how you can interpret the "hint") also does not reduce the number of possible options that need to be sorted through - and this is a bad solution to the puzzle.
Of the small flaws that are not critical at all, but if desired, they could be fixed - you can also note that in some parts of the map there is English text, in another part Russian (since I have a Russified Heroes) - it is a little confusing. Slightly miscalculated with movement points, and the hero on 111 after picking up the stone does not remain in the castle (like his counterpart), but movement points remain for an extra step. And the unicorn battle against a group of wyverns + ifrit is too easy.
But overall, the map is great - all sorts of tricks are used, and many battles are far from obvious and require the use of not one, but two or more tricks or tactical techniques. There are false hints that mislead. There is a little trolling, when you are given something that is not needed for the next battle). But, excluding the battle against the champions, I got a lot of pleasure solving the next puzzle and thinking about what Obi has prepared for this battle. I hope that the remaining 2/3 of the map is in the same style
NasosIs it possible to include "Titan's Thunder" in an event, Pandora's Box, Seer's Hut, Scholar's Hut, or a scroll? In the standard editor, it's obviously not in the list of spells.
Yes, it's possible in the Unleashed editor.
DandyIs it necessary to use a bug here?
The author stated that he intended it to work without a bug. Have you played Deeply Inundated Dungeon? Remember the troll versus angel fight. It's not obvious, but there's a similar mechanic here. I think this could be a good reference.
DandyIt's the only fight with such a huge number of possible arrangements for your stack(s) and the firewall before the champions' first turn.
I also spent a lot of time on this fight until I realized that I was moving the fake unit to the wrong place in the early rounds, and that's why everything went wrong. But, in my opinion, if you find the right moves in the early rounds (there aren't that many variations), then everything goes normally afterward. And the grid of movement ranges for the champions can be quite misleading.
If you play fairly, then no. No battle is dependent on the quick battle bug, but unfortunately, I don't know how to avoid it yet. wenwell suggests removing the quick battle option in the sod_sp, but this will add monotony to some sections of the scenario for those who plan to play with the plugin. However, even if you uncheck the box, nothing will prevent you from doing it in the battle itself; just block the sniper with Pegasus and use the bug with the Q key. The battle is based on one interesting feature of the AI, and with proper positioning, it can be passed with a 100% probability.
I was just reminiscing about how to move the horse units during the New Year holidays – both in online play and by checking out new maps from LC and Obi. I immediately encountered problems with both – it's important to understand what you're dealing with. The map from LC looks very interesting, but when you reach the 2nd (or 3rd?) battle with the dragons, where the strategy mentioned several times in the thread, or the quick-combat bug, allows you to defeat the dragons with just 2 pegasus units, questions arise about self-determination. Is it necessary to use this bug? Is it implied by the map, since there is still enough material left for at least one more use? After all, the author insists on using SOD_SP, which by default has a checkbox enabled to restore the quick-combat bug, which was fixed in HD (or HD+). In general, it's always a complex question: which bugs can be used on which maps.
I passed the dragon battle; no bugs are required there. I just saw a stream somewhere in August where he was showing the map's development, and there was a hint about how to pass it. It's really not easy to figure it out completely on your own.
wenwell suggests removing the quick battle option in SoD_SP, but this will add monotony to certain parts of the scenario for those who plan to play with the plugin. Although, even if the checkbox is removed, nothing will prevent you from doing it in the battle itself; just block the sniper with a Pegasus and use the bug with the Q key. The battle is based on one interesting AI feature, and with proper positioning, it can be passed with a 100% success rate.
If the checkbox is removed in SoD_SP, the bug will simply not work, meaning that flying units will not duplicate when moving, and therefore, activating quick battle before the battle will result in a defeat for our hero. At the same time, the Q key can still be used during the game. In theory, it is possible to require everyone to play with the SoD_SP plugin and lock the quick battle bug fix in it. The question is, for those playing without SoD_SP, this bug probably cannot be fixed.
Added 14 minutes later Probably, for a complete understanding, it should also be clarified that removing the checkbox does not cancel the possibility of using quick battle, but removes the bugs of quick battle both before the battle and directly in the battle itself.
If you uncheck the box in the SoD_SP mod, the bug simply won't trigger; that is, flying units won't duplicate when moving. Consequently, activating quick battle before a fight will result in our hero losing. At the same time, the Q key can still be used during gameplay. So, in theory, we could require everyone to play with the SoD_SP mod and lock the quick battle bug fix in it. The question is, for those playing without SoD_SP, this bug probably can't be fixed.
Added 14 minutes later Perhaps, for a complete understanding, it should also be clarified that unchecking the box doesn't disable the ability to use quick battle, but rather removes the bugs associated with quick battle, both before the battle and during the battle itself.
Even so. Thank you, I didn't know. With the next update, after carefully checking the impact of this enabled option on the gameplay, I will definitely implement this fix. I don't really want to force people to play with the mod; on the contrary, let people play without the mod. Ultimately, the player will come to the conclusion that it's still better to download the mod for convenience, as it's much more comfortable to "test" battles with it. But I know players who believe that the HD mod, and especially any plugin for it, is an unforgivable sin of cosmic proportions. I also know many people for whom it's "not enjoyable" to download a map that requires more than just a simple copy-paste into the Maps folder. And in my opinion, let such players draw their own conclusions and make their own decisions. Personally, I'm not against those who want to play using bugs of critical scale (quick combat bug, earthquake bug, clone bug, hero fusion, etc.). If it brings them such pleasure and the person concludes that they have played fairly, then please do so. I won't hold any grudges or anger
The Answer lies somewhere You never thought.
wenwell
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Yes, I meant what Marlo wrote. It would be good if it remained enabled by default, like some other options. For example, as far as I remember, the options Anchor Bug, AI Magic Mirror, and AI Necromancy are enabled by default, although in some cases, this may affect the original gameplay. I always disable them when installing a new version of SoD_SP, while some people enable them.
About 12-13 years ago, I was in the top three and even won offline tournaments, although on a different site – Hero League. But back then, there were no signs of a unified Heroes community site. And I don't share this concept of "the grass being greener in the past." Rather, the opposite is true; the set of tricks and techniques, both related to bugs and not, has grown significantly. At the very least, this is reflected in the physics engine, which has grown significantly in content and in the number of people who use it over the past 10 years. And the level of maps has grown... but if you don't play them, how will you see it? What appeared 10-15 years ago from hardcore maps, the first thing that comes to mind is Xiedu – and even then, few people completed it, but now there's The Last Crusade, Metataxer's Revenge, a bunch of Chinese maps, puzzle maps from RoseKavalier, Obi, wenwell – all of them appeared after 2010. And you can also see a sharp increase in quality and skill in online games. The champions have changed – before, you could admire Maretti and ATG, but now they are far from dominating everyone. Except perhaps Stinger and Bishop, who have consistently been strong, probably since the time of the dinosaurs, but their level has also increased. In short, it's not worth dwelling on the past and drawing conclusions based on isolated examples.
It's not about the grass. The hat bug has been around as long as the heroes have, and in 2021, there are people who say that it's a method. As for the old guard, it's a mixed bag. I'm sure that neither DmitryAS nor Anton would be out of place among the new players in offline games. The problem is that offline games themselves have largely died out.
I only managed to catch it alive briefly, just before its demise, and even then, mostly as an observer, but maps like Xiedu were not played in tournaments, at least as far as I remember.
I don't know about ATG, I don't know what happened to him, but Maretti occasionally appears on Twitch. I understand that he plays much less now. Maybe he's had enough, or maybe he's started living a real life, I don't know. I do know that playing regularly, in binges, is not the same as playing a few games for fun. There's a big difference in both approach and result.
And there's another very important nuance here: Hota is NOT Heroes. This game is undoubtedly popular. A fan-made add-on, expansion, mod – call it what you want. It's a game similar to Heroes, but it's NOT Heroes 3.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/ За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
SOD is alive and well in the custom map making. Also controversial opinion but if you pass a map using bugs that are obviously not intended then you rob yourself of the pleasure (pain) of the map itself
Creator of the Barbutilion - Part 1: War of the 7 Realms and Part 2: Leon's Redemption and Part 3: To be announced
Right during the New Year holidays, I was remembering how to move the horses — both in online play and by checking out new releases: maps from LC and Obi. Both had issues right away — it's important to understand what you're dealing with here. The map from LC looks very interesting, but once you reach the 2nd (or 3rd?) battle with dragons, where wenwell's strategy mentioned several times above in the thread or the quick-combat bug allows you to break the dragons with 2 pegasi — questions of self-determination arise. Should you use the bug here? Is it intended by the map, since there's still enough material for at least one more use? After all, the author insists on using SOD_SP, which by default has the checkmark for restoring the quick-combat bug (fixed in hd or hd+) enabled. In general, it's always a difficult question which bugs can be used on which maps. Now, the map from Obi doesn't pose such philosophical questions. To be honest, I didn't understand the map at first — some battles were simple, and then you find yourself at a dead end, wtf? I read the comments for one of the battles in Rince's VK group and it turns out the battle isn't that straightforward and simple. You start thinking further and it turns out there are alternative solutions, that the puzzle has a second level of solution. And then it's seasoned with restrictions on mana and move points, and it turns out that even the second level of solution isn't enough and there's actually a third In short, I'm thrilled. Some (and quite a few) of the battles are absolutely genius. And at the same time, they don't require knowledge of any bugs, but they do require a good knowledge of mechanics and courage in experimentation. Also, very long solutions are not intended — any battle, if you understand the solution, is executed in a maximum of a couple of minutes. However, I must caveat that I haven't completed much — only 2 days in 3 directions + tests of 2-3 battles on the 3rd day. And here is a small fly in the ointment — it's related to that damn battle with the firewall abuse and the champions. The only battle with such a huge number of placement options for your stack(s?) and the firewall before the champions' first turn. I spent about a day in the denial stage of this battle — I basically didn't want to approach it. Then I checked all the starting hex options for one stack (yuck for such approaches, but it's better than nothing) and the most logical placement of the wall — I only came to understand how the battle is passed if you isolate and sacrifice a 1-unit stack, which of course is not the solution, as the further quest requires completion without losses. And yes, I still haven't passed this battle and have no particular enthusiasm for it. IMHO, there should be a hint for it; "13 or less" is most likely a restriction on the number of firewall uses so that there's enough mana for the other battles, but that's not great. It's not a reference to hex I3 — it's not particularly noteworthy, there are more interesting hexes. The placement option of 1+3 (that's how the "hint" can be interpreted) also doesn't reduce the number of possible options that need to be plowed through — and that's a crappy puzzle solution. As for small flaws, which aren't critical at all, but could be fixed if desired — it can also be noted that in some parts of the map the text is English, in another part it's Russian (since I have localized Heroes) — it's a bit distracting. The move points are slightly miscalculated, and a hero with 111 after picking up a stone doesn't stay in the Castle (like his companion), but has move points left for an extra step. And the battle of the unicorn against a group of wyverns + ifrit is too simple. But otherwise, the map is gorgeous — all sorts of techniques are used, and many battles are far from obvious and require the application of not just one, but a couple or more tricks or tactical maneuvers. There are false hints that lead you astray. There's a bit of trolling when you're given something that isn't needed for the next battle :) But, excluding the battle against the champions, I got enormous pleasure solving each puzzle and wondering what Obi had prepared for this battle. I hope the other 2/3 of the map are in the same style)
Thank you for such a detailed review!
Regarding the battle with the champions, I can say that it really stands out against the other battles, which sometimes require a simple but elegant solution; here, essentially, you just need banal grinding and iterating through all possible placement options. The hint "13 or less" is precisely about the fact that you need to spend a maximum of 13 walls on this battle so that there's enough mana for the others; I didn't put any other meaning into it.) As an additional hint, I can say that the main thing in this battle is to find a configuration where 4 out of 7 champion stacks die within the first 5 walls; after that, everything is significantly simpler.
Overall, I expected that this particular battle would cause the most indignation among those doing the Walkthrough; I can say that further battles with the wall of fire are simpler than this one and don't require so much grinding to find the right placement.
The fact that you didn't have to use everything provided is perhaps not trolling from me, but a simple miscalculation.
It would be very interesting to see your Walkthrough on a stream, both to understand if everything aligns with my plan of how this map should be passed, and just to see your impressions.)
It’s not about the grass. The hat bug has been around as long as the heroes, and in 2021, there are still people who say it’s a method.
I was also surprised how seriously some people discuss Walkthroughs using SH or quick battle bugs. I probably will never understand what the point of such Walkthroughs is. Apparently, we will soon reach a point where we will be reading "opened ArtMoney, made 10,000 archangels in each stack and completed a very difficult map, it turned out not to be that difficult."Lider1
As for the old guard, yes and no. I am sure that neither DmitryAS nor Anton would be out of place among the new players in offline. The problem is that offline itself is practically dead.
Well, we shouldn't forget how old these respected people are now. And it is simply impossible to invest so much time in completing super-difficult maps. But I am sure that some of the old-timers will definitely show super results in offline, just as Bishop and Stinger do in online.Lider1
I don't know about Atg, I don't know what happened to him, but Maretti appears on Twitch. I understand that he plays much less now. Maybe he got tired of it, or he started living a real life, I don't know. I know for sure that playing regularly, in binges, is not the same as playing a few games for fun. This is a big difference, both in approach and in result.
Well, Maretti burst into Hota last August, played very actively, but never rose above 650 points. And Atg also plays Hota, has a rating of about 750, but for some reason he plays with newbies around 300-400 points, probably either for betting or to satisfy his ego. Lider1
And there is another very important nuance here - Hota is NOT Heroes. This game is undoubtedly popular. Fan addon, expansion, mod, let anyone call it what they want. It is a game similar to Heroes, but it is NOT Heroes 3.
For offline, the version of the game doesn't matter at all, even if it's WOG.
What difference does it make to you if someone completes a walkthrough wearing the Admiral's Hat? They do it, and that's it. In most cases, they still play the game normally. And those who play with glitches don't think they're better than those who play without them; there's no goal to outdo anyone using unfair methods. Have you ever seen a post where someone would write, "I completed the map in 1 day wearing the Admiral's Hat, I set a world record, I'm the coolest Heroes player!!!"?