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Posts from Let's make our own models (and maybe even animations)Auto-translated
Footman, CrazyPill didn't implement model effects. As I understand it, he only came up with the idea of importing models using plugins from Blitzkrieg. And even now, applying model effects can still be relevant in some cases.
Once again, the point is not that there are more possibilities somewhere else, but that the possibilities that exist here are quite sufficient for creativity.
You can import a model with skinning into the game. You can import animations. By the way, a new animation that can be considered original still implies creating a new skeleton. All sorts of mix-and-match approaches among animators are not appreciated at all.
Gerter
I don't see any problem in using someone else's work. ... So, for me personally, even a (not so) simple transfer of models from 7 would be that very "revolution in modding."
The problem is that by using only other people's work, you don't really learn anything useful. And it gets boring over time.
To see that your "revolution" is actually a very simple thing, you can just look at the import guide and do it all yourself in half a day. It's simple.
Hannik, without much experience in modding, tried and already managed to do it.
Footman, CrazyPill didn't add effects to the models. As far as I understand, he only came up with the idea of importing models using plugins from Blitzkrieg. And adding models with effects is still relevant in some cases.
Once again, the point is not that there are more possibilities somewhere else, but that the possibilities that exist here are quite sufficient for creativity. You can add a model with skinning to the game. You can add animation. By the way, a new animation that can be considered original still implies creating a new skeleton. All sorts of mix-and-match approaches among animators are not appreciated at all.
The problem is that using only other people's work, you don't really learn anything useful. And it gets boring over time.
To see that your "revolution" is actually a very simple thing, you can just look at the import guide and do it yourself in half a day. It's simple. Hannik, without much experience in modding, tried and already managed.
Well, it depends on how you look at it. From my perspective, as a card maker who, for example, just needs a model for a video, using other people's work is the best option. For someone who is specifically involved in models, creating their own is, of course, the best path to progress, especially now that, as I understand it, all the possibilities are there. But ultimately, it would be better for these two people to join forces to create the final product...
But if we talk about it in more depth, yes, motivation for people to create their own is very good, but firstly, for what purpose? In my opinion, such motivation needs a clearly defined end goal. Secondly, are there enough people in the community who will be able to independently create something comparable to at least the level of the developers?
Well, it depends on how you look at it. From my perspective as a card creator, who, for example, simply needs a model for a video, using someone else's work is the best option. For someone who is specifically focused on creating models, making their own is, of course, the best path to progress, especially now that, as I understand it, all the necessary tools are available. Ultimately, it would be best for these two people to join forces to create the final product...
But if we're talking about it on a deeper level, yes, the motivation for people to create their own work is a good thing, but firstly, what is the purpose? In my opinion, such motivation needs a clearly defined end goal. Secondly, are there enough people in the community who are capable of creating something comparable to the work of professional developers?
zahar0z
What I wrote above is directed at you as a card creator; consider it irrelevant to level design. I'll even say more: as a level designer, you can freely use your locations and maps assembled from a set of other people's assets in your portfolio. It's a different kind of work. But for a level designer, it's much more difficult to break into the industry. The problem is that their skills are not universal, but often tailored to a specific genre of games, and that it is more difficult to evaluate the work of a level designer than the work of a modeler or animator.
As I mentioned in the text, what I wrote above applies to people who modify the "visual" side of the game. I am urging them to "create their own." And here, it's not a question of which position is "correct," but whether we want to develop or not.
I repeat, you as a level designer don't necessarily need to create your own assets to develop; you create your own maps, but, for example, a modeler must eventually create something entirely original in order to develop.
Regarding whether there are enough people: for starters, one or two is better than nothing. Regarding the purpose: it's interesting. It's creativity. It's development. You can find a good job with good skills. In short, the answers will be the same as to the question, for example, "why paint?"
Added 9 minutes later Elu
Actually, as I understand it, creating new models and new animations is not that difficult. ... I don't know if I'll delve into all of this, but I'm quite interested.
It's as difficult/easy as, for example, painting. It's just a form of creativity.
Interested? Why not try it. You can start with a tutorial on modeling/unwrapping/painting a chest from a clumsy modeler. The link to this tutorial is in the post where I list the modeling programs. The clumsy modeler leads the tutorial in a fun and simple way. If you need anything, good luck. Feel free to ask, I'll be happy to help with advice
What is the ultimate purpose of creating models specifically for Heroes? Given the time investment involved, it seems relevant only if the models are made for existing large mods. Therefore, I don't quite understand why you separate script/mapmakers from modelers. They are doing the same job, just different parts of it. People play cards, global mods like 5.5; all of this is built on a symbiosis of scripts and visuals, not on separation.
Overall, I of course understand you and agree with many things. It's just that I think those who want to develop in the industry will clearly not be working on models for Heroes (maybe I'm wrong, of course).
In this context, I distinguish between level designers and modelers/animators/texture artists for the reasons mentioned above.
Once again, briefly and simply: you can develop and demonstrate the skill of creating interesting and playable levels (level design skill) by creating interesting playable levels using assets created by others (models in this case).
However, you cannot develop the skill of creating these assets by working only with materials created by others. To develop the skill of creating your own models (and, in fact, to become a modeler), you need to, surprisingly, create models. Why am I even explaining such an obvious thing?
It’s as difficult/easy as, for example, drawing. It’s just a form of creativity.
I agree, but I’m trying to convey that it’s not as difficult as it seems at first glance, and I’m surprised that, apparently, no one has done it. Animation isn’t the easiest thing, I agree, but it mostly just requires spending a lot of time on it, because the animation process itself is very simple. Basically, you press a button, create a pose by moving the bones to the desired position, and repeat this until you achieve the final result.
Of course, you need some knowledge of the theory, but it’s quite simple and boils down to one simple rule: remember weight and inertia. Naturally, you also need at least a basic knowledge of anatomy. But all of this can be learned in a week or two. Maybe I’m oversimplifying things, and real animators would knock me down face-first for saying that, but that’s how it is.
I want to create animations, but the problem is that the programs themselves aren’t as user-friendly as I hoped. The ideas are simple, and implementing them shouldn’t be too difficult, but damn, the programs... First, I tried to animate in Max, but it was too complicated. You can’t just take something and tilt it the way you need to. It’s hard to explain in words, but I hope it’s clear. It will be much easier in Maya, but there are also some problems and nuances.
In any case, I’ve only been doing this for a couple of weeks, and quite superficially. I can’t call myself an expert or even an amateur, simply because I basically fumbled around and achieved, in my opinion, basic results that anyone can achieve.
And I haven’t really been involved in modding before. In one game, about ten years ago, I made simple missions using the map editor, in GTA3 I edited models and imported weapons from other games, and that’s about it.
Overall, I understand you and agree with many things. I just think that those who want to develop in the industry clearly won't be making models for heroes (maybe I'm wrong, of course).
Why wouldn't they? In general, there's no difference in what you make models for, as long as you're practicing. This is, of course, regardless of the mood in the Community.
Why did I even start this conversation? I'm going to develop my modeling skills, and I don't want to give up modding Heroes. It's just an idea to combine the pleasant with the useful. Maybe something will come of it.
Besides, it would be great if I wasn't the only one here who feels this way (and I know that several people are interested in this). I just want to support these people and help create a more positive atmosphere in the Community. Because right now, in my opinion, the atmosphere is terrible.
This is clearly seen in this thread: I suggest "let's do our own thing," and I'm told "nah, why bother?" and they try to dissuade me in every way. I want to ask: If you want the modding Community to develop, are you sure you're "fighting in the right direction" by saying things like "it's not needed?" Or does the fact that talented people working on visuals are "leaving modding" one by one not give you any food for thought? And those who "haven't left" are constantly actively thinking about it. Are you absolutely sure that we, as a small Community, are doing everything right? Or maybe I'm right about something, and it's worth listening to?
At the very least, I urge you not to discourage those who have the desire to create their own resources and develop their skills, or who might develop it in the future, with phrases like "it's not needed."
zahar0z is absolutely right – it’s important to develop the skill of creating one’s own content, especially for young fans of Heroes of Might and Magic V! Perhaps in the future, you will find yourself in the game development industry in a professional capacity!
Why wouldn't they? Ultimately, there's no difference in what you create models for, as long as you're practicing. Of course, this is separate from the overall mood within the Community.
The reason I started this conversation is that I want to develop my modeling skills, and I don't want to abandon modding for Heroes. It's simply an idea to combine the pleasant with the useful. Maybe something good will come of it.
Besides, it would be great if I weren't the only one here interested in this (and I know that several people share this interest). I just want to support these people and contribute to creating a more positive atmosphere in the Community, because right now, in my opinion, the atmosphere is terrible.
This is clearly visible in this thread: I suggest "let's create our own content," and I'm met with "nah, why bother?" and constantly discouraged. So, I'd like to ask: if you want the modding Community to develop, are you sure you're "fighting in the right direction" by saying things like "it's not needed?" Or does the fact that talented people working on visuals are leaving modding one by one not give you any pause? And those who "haven't left" are constantly thinking about it. Are you absolutely sure that we, as a small Community, are doing everything right? Or maybe I'm right about something, and it's worth listening to?
At the very least, I urge you not to discourage people from creating their own resources and developing their skills with phrases like "it's not needed," especially those who have the desire or might develop it.
I didn't say anywhere that it's not needed. All I want to convey is that visuals don't offer much benefit on their own; they should be created "for something," if the goal is specifically to develop the Community. If it's for personal development, then it doesn't matter, of course.
They just drain all your energy at work with all sorts of nonsense + pressure, and as a result, you get terrible headaches + your eyes get tired... It's too late for me to retrain for game development as a professional activity (although I like this kind of creativity), but as a hobby, I still want to do it during my vacation...
Yes, I understand that it's often difficult to find time for all of this. I didn't mean to pressure you in any way. I'll be waiting for news about your progress during your vacation.)
Added 13 minutes ago Gerter
I didn't say that it's not needed. All I want to say is that visuals don't offer much benefit on their own; they should be created "for something," if the goal is to specifically develop the community. If it's for personal development, then it doesn't matter, of course.
Well, it depends. If a ready-made visual mod is created, it can be used in map projects. It would be even better if the visual artist specifically stated that they would be happy if other modders used this mod in their custom maps and projects. So, it's still useful for the community. Another advantage is that these materials become available not just to one person, but to everyone. And anyone can create a map with new models, for example. Therefore, in theory, the map itself should be good in order to stand out.
But, of course, it's also good to have interaction from the very beginning and to create resources specifically for a project. It's just difficult. As always, everyone wants everything at once, but this will require a lot of patience. In short, it will be easier and more useful for you as a mapmaker to gather the necessary resources from everywhere than to wait for a specific person who is working with you to complete a lot of work. This is a good, but somewhat challenging scheme at the moment.
So, to be honest, the osp model (packs of free resources) seems more viable for our community. Especially considering that the concept of "non-free access" doesn't exist in our community, and everyone is grabbing everything that isn't nailed down anyway. The only way to fight this is to make it easy for everyone to grab things, so that it stops being something noticeable. So, the osp scheme is even more relevant for us.
I have an idea to create a character model from scratch, from beginning to end, with full lighting and animations. The model and animations are needed for a portfolio. I will write about some aspects of the work; maybe it will be useful to someone, maybe someone will suggest a good idea, and in general, it will provide more motivation.
For now, the idea is to create an updated version of armored/sword-wielding warriors, but that's not certain. If anyone is interested, please post reference images and ideas in this thread regarding redesigning the armored/sword-wielding warrior or suggest your own character. The only criteria are that the character should be on foot, wielding a melee weapon, and humanoid. I would like to adhere to a realistic style, meaning the weapons and armor should resemble real-world items.
I have an idea to create a character model from scratch, from beginning to end, with full lighting and animations. The model and animations are needed for a portfolio. I will write about some aspects of the work; maybe it will be useful to someone, maybe someone will suggest a good idea, and in general, it will provide more motivation.
For now, the idea is to create an updated version of armored/sword-wielding warriors, but that's not certain. If anyone is interested, please post reference images and ideas in this thread regarding redesigning the armored/sword-wielding warrior or suggest your own character. The only criteria are that the character should be on foot, wielding a melee weapon, and humanoid. I would like to stick to a realistic style, meaning the weapons and armor should resemble real-world items.
Maybe it would be better to create a light elf?! :smile26:
It's possible to combine these two ideas and create a light elf in armor. Actually, it's not entirely a joke; I once dreamed of elves in a knightly style in Heroes 5, similar to the high elves from Age of Wonders 3 (although there, the emphasis might be more on a church-like style than a knightly one, so it might not be a completely accurate comparison). In my opinion, it would be more interesting than yet another human faction.
To be honest, I'm currently planning to create a male character, as the basic body model is almost ready.
Plus, if we're talking about a light elf heroine, a horse comes with the package. For now, I want to create a foot soldier character because working on a mounted character might involve significantly more work (2-3 times more).
However, I'm not fixated on plate armor/swordsmen; if there's a more interesting idea, I'm all for it. If you have any ideas or references, feel free to share some artwork or screenshots.
Yes, I understand that it's challenging to create a unique heroine on horseback, especially when sticking to the standard elven aesthetic. That's why I suggested an elf or elven character in armor, as it's somewhat similar to a knight but offers more opportunities to be creative and make it stand out. Probably. I'm not entirely sure.
zahar0z
