Posts from Wind of Change

2. By the way, the red orb and the cloak of renunciation were removed, but why wasn't the courage icon fixed, or does no one consider it overpowered?

In SoD, the red orb and the cloak were not removed. In HoTA, the courage icon was fixed even before the red orb was removed.

As I read whole topic, I think, I can add some from me. I am not playing SoD, all the ideas are for HotA.
I started playing Heroes 3, becouse I love this game. Why do I love it? For the strategy, fun and headache after playing many hours. Firstly I was watching some YouTube gameplays and started my PvP career, becouse I saw, some plays, moves, decisions can be done better.

For me as a player what can not be touched in this game is fun. That means all the randomness are good, but should influence game less. That means I disagree with removing TP/DD, but the value it brings, should be lower. Ideally, It should be possible for a player to win the game without control vs the player, who has control already. (Similar to the situation, when one player has mass slow and the other doesn't, many times it is still possible to do combat pretty nicely, but mass slow ofcourse helps, same should do control(TP/DD). Help, but not win by itself.

It's almost impossible to compete vs a player, who has TP/DD, when you don't have yours. That pushed game in one direction, to rush Mage Guild, get lucky with your choice, get control asap.
What I dislike with playing XL+U on hotA is that you feel, you're in a loterry. I understand, this feeling should be on JC, but not on XL+U. So my suggestion would be to weaken the control spells.
I like how the new Resistance works, it got changed, same I propose here.(less RNG, more human decision if take or not the resistance skill, it is only for a final fight, but only?)

We can think about many different options on how to reduce the usefulness of TP. I read the topic and the best ideas are to set a limit of total uses/day. What is impornat to think, is that early on this limit should be lower, than in a later phase of the game. Other problem with control are Heroes, who can use that. We cannot compare a normal way, standard way of getting control heroes vs making them with a help of magic uniwersity form Flux Town. So my suggestion on that one is to connect both problems and make one sulution.

Every Hero can have his own bar(which refreshes every turn, same as income, mana). Every hero starts with 1 point in this bar. For every 5 Levels, you get 1 extra point. So level 11 Labetha will have 3 points, lv 21 - 5 points.
For every use of TP/DD one point is spent. That means, that a new hero, with Wisdom/Earth/Air will have lv~10-15, what is 3-4 points. This hero is able to do 2xDD and 1x or 2xTP. So you have to be way more careful with your attacks, so you can move the Hero back. You have to plan your attacks by leaving Hero exackly in a Town, from which you want to attack(that way opp can catch you and kill). Sometimes more risk will be needed, but it's a risk you take, so that's more fun to play and watch, I think. Also, that stops the player, who gets control early in punishing his opponent. And later on, the control war should exist.

We are still able to use our control, control is still very important and strong, but it doesn't win the game by itself, I think. New Hero from Tavern with 25+ mana can use DD or TP, so we don't touch that. The only problem is getting a high level hero from Prison(lv 20-30). But on the other hand, most of the times they have crap in secondary skills, so you have to make a decision to keep them or not.
This move, I think will make players think about experience more, more strategy and planning will be done in order to win the game. Also, the adventage you get with Flux Town and Uniwercity is lowered, but still helpful.

This will slow the game down, but at the same time, it gives options for the second player, as he can still farm his heroes, map and look for control. Games will be longer, but ... I disagree that fast games are better(we have JC for that, on XL+U we should be looking for a relatively close, even, hard, interesting game).

With logistics and artifacts for mp, I think what should be changed are boots of speed. To easy to get, gives too much. Make it a major class art or even a Relic(who plays a homm3 knows, this artifact is really worth a relic class).

After we can think, if it's necessary to make TP/DD spell weaker(DD only in radius of 5x5 etc.)

Here's some fuel for thought.

How about this idea:
- A Recanter, when equipped by a hero, grants -x to all stats or -x to attack and -x to defense.
- A Kesh, when equipped by a hero, grants -2/3/4 to all stats or -2/3/4 to attack and -2/3/4 to defense.

Town Portal:

No Earth Magic - teleport to nearest town once per day and cost 600 movement
Basic Earth Magic - teleport to chosen town and cost 600 movement
Advanced Earth Magic - twice per day and cost 400 movement
Expert Earth Magic - 200 movement

Dimension Door:

No Air Magic - once per day and cost 800 movement
Basic Air Magic - 600 movement
Advanced Air Magic - 400 movement
Expert Air Magic - 200 movement
_________________________________________________________________

No Air Magic - once per day and cost 1000 movement
Basic Air Magic - 700 points
Advanced Air Magic - twice per day and cost 600 movement
Expert Air Magic - 500 movement

Fly:

No Air Magic - 60% penalty
Basic Air Magic - 40% penalty
Advanced Air Magic - 20% penalty
Expert Air Magic - no penalty

some tweaks here and there. most important factors:

1) Town Portal - max twice per day and need Earth Magic to really benefit
2) DD - once per day and also need Air Magic to really benefit (otherwise high cost, hence will not be spammed every turn)
3) Fly - situational without Air Magic and will be spammed with Air Magic (to keep Fly/DD more or less equally useful and benefiting more from Air Magic)

this way Earth=Air and not Earth>Air in my honest opinion !


an idea that could possibly work out well

- disable TP/DD/Fly from Books, Scrolls, Guilds
- enable Pyramids for these 3 spells only

problem solved. you need an adventure map spell - find a Pyramid

additionally

- you can freely select the spell you want from a choice of 3 each and every new Pyramid
- make it permanent after choosing, like a Shrine, so any subsequent visitors may also learn that exact spell
- 'Tournament Rules' ( HW_Rules ) enable Pyramids with this mechanic, otherwise disable

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Town Portal:

No Earth Magic - teleport to nearest town once per day and cost 600 movement
Basic Earth Magic - teleport to chosen town and cost 600 movement
Advanced Earth Magic - twice per day and cost 400 movement
Expert Earth Magic - 200 movement

Dimension Door:

No Air Magic - once per day and cost 800 movement
Basic Air Magic - 600 movement
Advanced Air Magic - 400 movement
Expert Air Magic - 200 movement
_________________________________________________________________

No Air Magic - once per day and cost 1000 movement
Basic Air Magic - 700 movement
Advanced Air Magic - twice per day and cost 600 movement
Expert Air Magic - 500 movement

Fly:

No Air Magic - 60% penalty
Basic Air Magic - 40% penalty
Advanced Air Magic - 20% penalty
Expert Air Magic - no penalty

some tweaks here and there. most important factors:

1) Town Portal - max twice per day and need Earth Magic to really benefit
2) DD - once per day and also need Air Magic to really benefit (otherwise high cost, hence will not be spammed every turn)
3) Fly - situational without Air Magic and will be spammed with Air Magic (to keep Fly/DD more or less equally useful and benefiting more from Air Magic)

this way Earth=Air and not Earth>Air in my honest opinion !


an idea that could possibly work out well

- disable TP/DD/Fly from Books, Scrolls, Guilds
- enable Pyramids for these 3 spells only

problem solved. you need an adventure map spell - find a Pyramid

additionally

- you can freely select the spell you want from a choice of 3 each and every new Pyramid
- make it permanent after choosing, like a Shrine, so any subsequent visitors may also learn that exact spell
- 'Tournament Rules' ( HW_Rules ) enable Pyramids with this mechanic, otherwise disable


http://heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?TID=43966&pagenumber=58

Oh, these balancers... :smile35:
Although, level 6 magic is still a long way off. And an automated system for spell chains is even further away. :smile52:

and after the chains, there will still be automatic battles to program based on the player's level; for example, at a rating of 1800, the autobattle will result in one set of losses, at 1500, another, and at a rating of 1300, it will simply surrender). Then, you can finish a game of Heroes faster than in Hearthstone)))

but as it is now, it takes a long time to accumulate 600 mana points to be able to cast one teleportation spell, which is quite a lot, of course).

but by the time you gather 600 mana points to cast one teleportation spell, that's quite a lot.

But the point isn't about mana points, it's about the required movement points...

fixed

bump
Are you ready?

bump
Are you ready?

We still can't get over level 6 magic :D

The idea of having a separate level/slot for control is excellent. Setting a fixed price (increased, for example, 20 resources for Town Portal, 30 for Dimension Door) would be a good approach. It shouldn't be removed from books/Pandora's Boxes, as it provides an alternative way to obtain it. This randomness in control within the game has repeatedly shown that something needs to be changed. The variance can be too extreme because in GM4, you can rebuild 4-5 times (13 spells), and in GM5, 5-7 times (6-8 spells). This results in a possible difference of 10-12 days! This idea has been discussed several times during streams with players, and a significant number of them support this approach.

The idea of having a separate level/slot for control is excellent. Setting a fixed price (increased, for example, 20 resources for Tier 3 creatures, 30 for Tier 4) would be a good approach. It shouldn't be removed from books/Pandora chests, as it provides an alternative way to obtain them.

The current random control in the Grand Mage has repeatedly shown that something needs to be changed. The variance can be too extreme, as Grand Mage 4 can be rebuilt 4-5 times (13 spells), and Grand Mage 5 can be rebuilt 5-7 times (6-8 spells). This results in a possible difference of 10-12 days!

This idea has been discussed many times in streams with players, and a significant number of them support it.

What is happening now in XL+U is absurd; the game has simply been reduced to repeatedly using the Grand Mage, and the difference in when control is obtained often decides the games. But a Grand Mage level 6 with control is complete nonsense. Players may nod and say yes, but imagine the implementation process? How should it look, at least from a design perspective? Should you build an additional floor in each city? Or add a secret slot with a custom spell to each level? Before suggesting something like this, it's better to think about it at least a little.

An interesting solution has been implemented in the Fresh mod, where the probability of obtaining spells has been changed.
1st attempt: normal chance, 2nd attempt: double chance, 3rd attempt: triple chance, and 4th attempt: 100%. It would have to be extremely unlucky to get both spells on the 4th attempt.

What is currently happening in XL+U is nonsense; the game has simply been reduced to GM cycling, and the difference in how many attempts it takes to get control often decides games. But a level 6 GM with control is complete madness. Players might nod along saying "yes, yes," but imagine the process of implementation? How should this look even from a design perspective? Adding a floor to every town? Or adding a secret slot for a custom spell to every level? Just before proposing something like this, it's better to think at least a little bit first.

A quite interesting solution was made in the Fresh mod, where they changed the probability of acquisition.
1st attempt is normal chance, 2nd attempt is double chance, 3rd attempt is triple, and the 4th attempt is 100%. You would have to be extremely unlucky to get both spells on the 4th attempt.

IMHO, the players' task is to point out problems and suggest what they believe are the best solutions to those problems.
Implementing these suggestions in accordance with the design, plot, and other game elements is the task of the HotA crew, preferably with the help of the players.
Therefore, I am proposing the best solution from the perspective of game mechanics and esports competitiveness.

Lucky and I were discussing this issue, and we came to the conclusion that it would be optimal to obtain the control spell in exactly 2-4 (3-5??) attempts, without changing the chances with each rebuild (as is done in the fresh mode). In HotA, the rebuild is quite different. Narrowing the range is what is needed. Essentially, nerfing some skills (Logistics, Intelligence) is also narrowing the range of overpowered abilities. This is the right direction for the game's development.

I'll support Dirty Player; in Fresh Mod, there's a very elegant solution to this issue. Moreover, the idea behind this implementation aligns well with the opinions of LuckyF and one of the few others. :-)