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Posts from HoMM VII Haven Units – Haven faction units from the seventh installment of Heroes of Might and Magic.

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
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Offline dimakim2211
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Posts: 52
#109
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hello footman, please don't abandon this mod. You've revolutionized the game with it, and I doubt such mods will appear anytime soon. Personally, I and my friends really enjoyed this mod. Please finish this mod completely; I really want to see replacements for the monks, horses, and angels. I beg you, please.
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Offline psatkha
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#110
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dimakim2211
Hello, footman. Please don't abandon this mod. You've revolutionized it, and I doubt such mods will appear anytime soon. Personally, I and my friends really liked this mod. Please finish this mod; I really want to see replacements for monks, horses, and angels. I'm begging you.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :smile54:

footman - reconsider, don't abandon what you've started, because you've truly breathed new life into Heroes 5! :smile13:
С уважением, Psatkha (Псатха)

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Неудачное планирование ведёт к неудаче ...

NCF - мод, добавляющий дополнительных существ в HeroesV 3.1
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Offline zahar0z
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#111
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dimakim2211
You've revolutionized things with this mod.
For some reason, this comment makes me laugh a lot.
(Probably I'm just jealous.)

But seriously, this whole topic of making/not making mods is a real sore spot for me personally.
I'm constantly torn, and even though I understand that it's a dead-end and not worth the effort/time, I still don't want to give it up.
Then I start blaming myself for wasting time on nonsense.
So, for me, this is a real problem, and it seems I'm not the only one.
In my opinion, the last couple of months have set a record for the number of messages in the style of "I'm tired, I'm leaving" from people who have done something more or less worthwhile for Heroes 5.
In short, there are problems here, comrades, with the game, with the Community, and in general, which is why it's difficult to stay here.

However, I don't really understand the position of "YOU are bad, you don't do anything, so I'm leaving."
footman
because script developers can't expand/fix the game's functionality (they can't even fix the bump map function, nor can they make it so that certain creatures play an animation when the player retreats to defense, as in Heroes 6 and 7.
Especially considering that the above is generally not related to "scripting" at all. How, please tell me, dear revolutionary Footman, will you order the in-game scripts to
(which, by the way, are a list of commands pre-defined by the developers, and which can be used to edit things like adding a creature to a hero's army, playing an effect on the global map, etc.) to "fix" the display of normal maps by the engine, and what does this have to do with it at all?

And, just so you know, if by some miracle we actually got the source code, it wouldn't necessarily mean that modding for Heroes would move significantly forward.
Let's just say that editing someone else's game source code is, um... a little more complicated than moving a fully finished model from Maya to 3ds Max and then into the game. In short, even if the code were available, it would be useless without skilled developers.



P.S. I decided to try playing around with your "revolution in modding" here.

P.P.S. Do we not have a spoiler function on the forum, or am I just not smart enough to find it?
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Offline footman
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#112
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psatkha
Couldn't have said it better myself! :smile54:

footman - think twice, don't abandon what you've started, because you've really breathed new life into the 5th installment! :smile13:

If there was a revolutionary graphics mod for this game, I would consider it. Back in the day, the game GTA San Andreas had a mod called SA Render, which wasn't optimized and worked even worse on AMD graphics cards, but it significantly changed the graphics towards GTA 4. However, there's nothing even remotely close to that for Heroes 5, because the modder who had the source code for version 3.0 decided to focus on creating a better AI instead of improving the graphics in any way. Therefore, until a mod similar to SA Render appears, I doubt I'll contribute anything else.
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Offline zahar0z
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#113
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zahar0z
"YOU are bad, you don't do anything, so I'm leaving"
is this still your stance, or am I misunderstanding something?

but seriously, what kind of "revolutionary" graphical improvements would you like to see in Heroes 5? Normal map rendering? Or even photorealistic graphics on the level of your Unreal Engine?
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Offline footman
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#114
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zahar0z
Is this still the same approach, or am I misunderstanding something?

But seriously, what kind of "revolutionary" graphical improvements would you like to see in Heroes 5? Normal map rendering? Or photorealistic graphics on par with your Unreal Engine?

At least at the level of 2008-2010, but not like in 2004 and then two years later without any changes except for a relief map, and in some places even worse. For example, in the alpha version, shadows take into account the alpha channel, and models are overlapped by shadows, while in the final version it only works if the alpha model has AM_OPAQUE set.
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Offline zahar0z
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#115
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To be honest, I don't understand what you mean.
This level from 2008-2010 seems too abstract to me. For example, Minecraft was released in 2011; is it representative of the graphics for 2011, and if not (of course not), then what is?

Or, another question: what "year of graphics" does a 2006 game (Heroes 5) with models from a 2015 game (Heroes 7) look like? Is some kind of average calculated?

In short, if I'm not being sarcastic, I don't understand what specific technologies you're missing in Heroes 5, and why you need them so much.

Added 2 minutes later
footman
For example, in the alpha version, shadows take the alpha channel into account, and models are overlapped by shadows, but in the final version, this only happens if the alpha model has AM_OPAQUE.
Well, as far as I understand, it still works simply with the AM_OPAQUE value?
What is the problem then? And considering the "quality" of the shadows in Heroes 5, is it really that important that they take the alpha channel into account?
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Offline footman
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#116
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zahar0z
to be honest, I don't understand what you mean.
This "level" from 2008-2010 seems too abstract to me. For example, Minecraft was released in 2011, is it representative of the graphics for 2011, and if not (of course not), then what is?

Or, another question: what "year of graphics" does a 2006 game (Heroes 5) with models from a 2015 game (Heroes 7) look like? Is some kind of average calculated?

In short, if I'm not being sarcastic, I don't understand what specific technologies you feel are lacking in Heroes 5.

Added 2 minutes later

Well, as far as I understand, it still works simply with the AM_OPAQUE value?
What's the problem then? And considering the "quality" of the shadows in Heroes 5, is it really that important that they take the alpha channel into account?

Yes, but only with AM_OPAQUE, and the quality of the shadows can be improved by changing the gfx_depth_tex_resolution parameter in user_a2.cfg, but another problem arises: shadows are divided into static ones (they have smoothing and are only for trees) and non-static ones (everything else). Static shadows glitch out at values greater than 2048, and judging by this video, someone reworked them: https://youtu.be/POxjA5uFRj0

Besides shadows, a normal gloss function is needed, which, when used, does not create random shadows at certain angles, and support for vertex maps, which was broken.
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Offline zahar0z
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#117
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I'm just saying, it seems a bit strange to expect them to add modern lighting rendering, simulation of fabric destruction, and interaction with fluids to an old game. Especially when there's no original source code for the game, and even more so when the game isn't a first-person shooter, but a turn-based strategy game. Is all of this really that important in a game like Heroes 5? And wouldn't simply replacing the models with more, shall we say, "high-quality" models already improve the visuals? (I put "high-quality" in quotes because it's not really an accurate term, but I think the point is clear: I'm referring to more detailed models from more recent games in the series.)
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Offline footman
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#118
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zahar0z
I'm just trying to say that it seems strange to expect them to add modern lighting rendering, simulation of fabric destruction, and interaction with fluids to an old game. Especially when there is no source code for the game, and even more so when the game is not a first-person shooter, but a turn-based strategy.

I mentioned the sa render mod for GTA San Andreas, and no one had the source code for that either, and it wasn't perfect, and I'm not demanding that a similar mod for Heroes 5 be perfect.
Is all of this really that important in a game like Heroes 5? And wouldn't simply replacing the models with more "high-quality" ones already improve the visuals on its own?
I've always believed that changing the graphics itself is valued much more than replacing one set of models with another.
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Offline zahar0z
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#119
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footman
the quality of shadows can be improved by changing the parameter setvar gfx_depth_tex_resolution in user_a2.cfg

the point is that they are still very "conditional," meaning they don't scatter, they don't render properly on models, but they seem to consume a lot of performance.
I'm not even talking about the proper rendering of shadows in the folds of clothing, depending on the position/intensity/warmth of the light source. In short, this thing that's used as shadows in Heroes 5, in my opinion, doesn't significantly affect the picture. Dancing around with it won't fix the situation, so wouldn't it be easier to just ignore this problem? After all, is it really that necessary?
I mean, if you're interested in working with the most modern graphics and a photorealistic picture, why not do it on a platform where you can actually achieve that?
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Offline psatkha
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#120
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footman, as I understand it, the Alpha engine was rejected by the publisher... and the fifth installment was aimed at a larger number of players who didn't have top-of-the-line graphics cards at the time... so this factor needs to be taken into account... well, there's no BUMP effect, and that's fine...

The only other thing I don't like is the animation of the selected unit... they just didn't come up with that feature back then...
С уважением, Psatkha (Псатха)

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Неудачное планирование ведёт к неудаче ...

NCF - мод, добавляющий дополнительных существ в HeroesV 3.1
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Offline zahar0z
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#121
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footman
I've always believed that changing the graphics themselves is much more valuable than simply replacing one set of models with another.

Oh, models... aren't they graphics?
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Offline footman
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#122
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zahar0z
oh, the models... isn't that graphics?
Well, you could say it's graphics, but it doesn't really excite me; you can change them in almost every third game.
I mean, if you're interested in working with the most modern graphics and a photorealistic image, why not do it on a platform where you can actually achieve that?
I wanted to work on transferring creatures from the fifth game to the seventh, but the gr2 import doesn't export animations, only the skeleton from them...
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Offline zahar0z
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#123
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footman
I mentioned the sa render mod for GTA San Andreas, and no one had the source code for it.

We don't know what resources they had, what tools the developers left them with. I don't want to go into details now, and superficially comparing such things is meaningless. Maybe it's just a mod on some third-party engine, or maybe they used elements from the next game in the series (as far as I understand, Rockstar uses the same internal engine for GTA, constantly improving it).
In short, I don't know how it was done there. But, for example, I know how something similar was implemented for Jedi Academy. There, too, talented people added the display of a normal map; for this, the source code was required, which has been open source for a couple of years now. Only now, no one uses this feature because, unexpectedly, displaying normal maps requires models with these normal maps, which no one has made for this game yet.
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