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In reply to LordL
Offline kolotok
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Posts: 275
#2971
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LordL
How ethical is it to use bugs like the Phoenix bug and the clone bug? I heard that the Chinese don't even hesitate and actively use them when completing maps. Is this true?

Some maps are specifically designed with this in mind. I can recall "Where the Beauty Lies," where the author specifically describes this bug and explains how to complete the map with a hero and legions of archers. Otherwise, it's impossible to complete it.

In other cases, this technique is very rarely used. In my opinion, it's more of a bug, and I wouldn't use it. Although, right now, when completing "Legend of the Shanghai," with 30,000 Grand Elves (with a possible berserk), this technique would be helpful.
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Offline Nasos
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#2972
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Are there any tools available to record the current state of a battle and allow restarting from that same point?
I just finished a battle that lasted 7 hours, with 16 Archdevils against 1,000 Crystal Golems with relatively low stats. Without turbo animation, each stack took about 50 minutes, followed by 10 minutes of rest, totaling around 4-5,000 rounds. And there was practically no room for error, as 50 dragons were already one-shotting the Archdevils, and there were 140+ of them in each stack. However, this didn't prevent me from failing once when there were fewer dragons in the stack than needed for a one-shot, so I had to restart.
It would be extremely frustrating and unpleasant to misclick after several hours of battle and lose, so the ability to save during a battle would be very useful, although it would be quite similar to cheating. There are also conventional methods; you can run the game on a virtual machine and periodically create a snapshot during the battle. Or simply put the system to sleep during the battle, copy the hiberfil.sys file, and then use it before each wake-up. But all of this is quite inconvenient.

P.S.
I still had to replay that battle because I made a mistake in the strategy earlier
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In reply to Nasos
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,032
#2973
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Nasos
There are also conventional methods; you can run Heroes on a virtual machine and periodically take snapshots during battles.
This method was described 11 years ago: 😮
/topic/at/192301/
However, I haven't heard of anyone actually using it. In general, for farming morale, this is definitely cheating. But for such long battles, it's a normal safety net.
Nasos
Without turbo animation.
What prevents its use? It greatly speeds up the process. You can complete 4-5k rounds in an hour.
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In reply to Dirty_Player
Offline Nasos
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Posts: 276
#2974
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Dirty_Player

What prevents you from using it? It significantly speeds up the process. You can complete 4-5k rounds in an hour.

I don't use any tools for principled reasons (or sheer stubbornness, depending on how you look at it). I've heard that Chinese players have a similar quirk.

I'm not sure about speeding up the process. In speed-click mode, there's a much higher chance of messing up.
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In reply to Nasos
Offline wenwell
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Posts: 298
#2975
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Nasos
For principled reasons (or sheer stubbornness, depending on how you look at it), I don't use any tools.

Does restarting from the same point not apply here?:confused:
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Offline LordL
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Posts: 83
#2976
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Discovered that summoning demons using Pit Lords is considered a level 2 spell. It cannot be done on regular terrain, but it can be done with a Cloak of Negation.
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In reply to wenwell
Offline Nasos
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#2977
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wenwell
Doesn't restarting from the same point apply here?:confused:
I'm not doing it for myself, I swear I put in the effort.
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In reply to Nasos
Offline wenwell
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Posts: 298
#2978
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Nasos
I wasn't doing it for myself, I was genuinely trying.

I had no doubt about that. However, such lengthy battles are quite rare, and those that do occur are completed much faster due to accelerated animations, as Dirty mentioned. Of course, there are exceptions; I read somewhere on the portal about a 12-hour battle with accelerated animations, if my memory serves me correctly. So, for exceptional battles, exceptional measures are needed (an inconvenient virtual machine).

Such a feature would also be useful for testing battles, but, in my opinion, even that is too much. In this regard, a better alternative would be a coordinate grid, which recently appeared in SoD_SP. Now, the entire battle can be recorded in text form, and you don't have to worry about forgetting anything.

Before this, such grids were suggested on forums, and now there is something that might become established due to the widespread use of the plugin.
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In reply to wenwell
Offline LordL
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Posts: 83
#2979
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wenwell
I had no doubts about that :) Just, such multi-hour battles are quite rare, and those that exist are completed much faster due to accelerated animation, as Dirty said. Of course, there are exceptions; I read somewhere on the portal about a 12-hour battle with accelerated animation, if my memory serves me right. So, for exceptional battles, exceptional measures are needed (an inconvenient virtual machine).

Such a thing would also be useful for testing battles, but, in my opinion, even that is too much. In this regard, the best alternative would be a coordinate grid that recently appeared in SoD_SP. Now, the entire battle can be recorded in text form, and you don't have to worry about forgetting anything.

Before this, such grids were suggested on forums, and now there is something that might become widespread due to the popularity of the plugin.
Where did you find such a battle? Can you provide a link? I'm talking about the 12-hour battle with turbo animation.
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In reply to LordL
Offline wenwell
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Posts: 298
#2980
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LordL
Where did you find such a battle? Can you provide a link? I'm talking about a 12-hour battle with turbo animation.


Here. Quote: "I also defeated the Moon with harpies on auto-battle; I had about 100 of them, and the battle lasted exactly 12 hours, including the time for creature animation with accelerated animation."

But this is an auto-battle, not a manual one, although unexpected crashes are quite possible.
LordL
I discovered that summoning pit lords is considered level 2 magic. You can't do this on regular terrain, but you can with a Cloak of Negation.

If this isn't in Physmig, you can write to the admin in the VK group (Physmig) to have it added.
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In reply to wenwell
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Offline Dirty_Player
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Posts: 11,032
#2981
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Don't get it confused. There are these options: 1. Standard SOD game speed. 2. cranim.txt accelerator. It appeared about 15 years ago and has always been allowed. 3. SOD_Turbo.exe accelerator (a patched heroes3.exe). It speeds up animation many times over, and all movements happen almost instantly. Online players use it to save time. If a multi-round battle takes place with standard SOD animation, then it's just :smile35:. I don't understand how anyone can waste their time so much – it's the most valuable resource in the world.
wenwell
Here. Quote: "I also cleared the Moon with harpies on auto-battle; I had about 100 of them, and the battle lasted exactly 12 hours, including the cranim with accelerated animation."
Judging by the quote, the cranim version was used there. As far as I know, TurboSOD didn't exist back then, but I might be wrong. If the battle with cranim took 12 hours, then with TurboSOD it would definitely end in about 3-4 hours.
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In reply to Dirty_Player
Offline LordL
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Posts: 83
#2982
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Dirty_Player
You're mixing things up. There are a few options:
1. Standard game speed in SOD.
2. The cranim.txt speedup. It appeared about 15 years ago and has always been allowed.
3. The SOD_Turbo.exe speedup (a patched heroes3.exe). It speeds up animations many times over, and all movements happen almost instantly. Online players use it to save time.

If a multi-round battle takes place with standard SOD animations, then that's just :smile35:. I don't understand how anyone can waste their time like that – time is the most valuable resource in the world.

Judging by the quote, the cranim version was used, as far as I know, TurboSOD didn't exist back then, but I could be wrong. If the battle took 12 hours with cranim, it would definitely end in about 3-4 hours with TurboSOD.
You forgot about SOD SP, which appeared around 2017, but it's only for single-player.

Added after 21 hours and 12 minutes
I'm having a problem while playing the Paragon 2.0 map. I reached Ivor, I think, a little earlier than I should have. I went through the Dungeon. Because I went too early, I didn't have enough of an army to defeat Ivor. So, instead of opening the passage right away, I waited a couple of days for the secondary heroes to gather an army from the cities. I went through the tower with Mograine, then met a secondary hero, took his army, and waited for Ivor to attack on the next turn. However, he got scared and ran to the location with the dragonlings, and from there to the desert location, which I was supposed to run through. I can't catch him, but I can't ignore him either – some enemies like to run away, and Ivor has the War Shackles. What should I do? I'm attaching the save files: https://drive.google.com/open?id=18kk73aMZgwkgfxLfkqYTkC9uODqpa8Ga
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In reply to Nasos
Offline Obi
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Posts: 42
#2983
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Nasos
For principled reasons (or sheer stubbornness, depending on how you look at it), I don't use any tools. I've heard that Chinese players have a similar quirk.

I'm not sure about speeding up the process. In speed-click mode, there's a much higher chance of messing up.

What principles do you have that make you spend 5 times longer on battles? Just curious. And by the way, the Chinese don't use SOD_SP not because they have a "quirk," but because they simply don't know about it; they have a sovereign internet controlled by the state.
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In reply to Obi
Offline LordL
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Posts: 83
#2984
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I don't think they block the Heroes community there, so the reason is probably something else.
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