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Posts from The Philosophy of Heroes of Might and Magic.
Please explain. Maybe we understand different things by "Lords." And what do you mean by "marginal"? As a neutral creature (a Lord)?
I understand that a Lord is a ruler who has subordinates (belonging to the highest stratum of their society).
Marginal means someone who has fallen out of society, who does not belong to it.
I'll repeat my thought:
A hero is not necessarily a Lord, that is, a person from the upper class, in their society having power over subordinates. It could also be some kind of thief who has gained popular support.
In general, in Heroes of Might and Magic, heroes evolved from mercenaries into generals in the first part and then into story-driven characters (almost role-playing ones).
Added 2 minutes later XEL;116460
Progressive Middle Ages. Neither in Erathia, nor in Harmondale, nor in Bracadia, nor even in Nighon are there inquisitorial pyres, conservatism, or a denial of development and progress.
They don't have the concept of the power of the church at all (as it is, for example, in Heroes 5), and there is no inquisition, although one could argue, because there are Crusaders
Rather, I meant it this way: Lords are essentially heroes (those who ride horses and cast spells), and the rest are creatures. There are no others. With the exception of marginals – neutral creatures. But now I think it's worth adjusting, taking into account what you said, Starhan. So, the basic units of society that make up social groups are: 1. Lords – those who are heroes and, let's say, own a castle (in the 4th game, a hero can be without a castle). 2. Creatures subordinate to the Lords. 3. Marginals – creatures and heroes who are outside of society, without masters or, respectively, castles.
It's not quite clear what you mean by "thief" – a creature or just a metaphor expressing the essence: "from rags to riches"?
XEL, love is a rather interesting feeling. Remember history and Catherine (a coincidence?) 2 – here love ruled an empire (or lust?:)). And didn't she have love for her children? Women are much more impulsive than men. And feelings play a significant role for them, regulating behavior. I meant love within the family, rather than love for the homeland, although that is also important.
I suddenly thought about how difficult it was for the authors of stories about Catherine to describe her character, if, by its very nature, Lords are characterized by male behavior!
I meant love within the family, rather than love for the homeland, although that is also important.
I don't see a connection between Catherine's love for her family and the time she ruled in Erathia.
I suddenly thought about how difficult it must have been for the authors of Catherine's stories to describe her character, if Lords are inherently characterized by male behavior!
Why is it difficult? Catherine is not the first female main character in games and works of fiction.
What division of all the factions in the game would you suggest?
Unfortunately, I don't know enough about the internal structures of all the factions except the Enrothians and Erathians...
because I played "The Restoration of Erathia" a long time ago and I can barely remember it now.
Of the games I've played recently, I got halfway through Might and Magic II, and I completed the "Life and Strength" campaign in Heroes of Might and Magic IV and the Haven campaign in Heroes of Might and Magic V.
It depends on what we're dividing.
If you mean the social structure of each faction, then your definition isn't quite right.
If you're trying to define the game mechanics, then it's true that there are heroes and there are creatures :) but that's obvious.
(I've also been thinking, we need to categorize the huts of seers, witches, and other similar structures somewhere.)
Added 4 minutes later And there's also the player (as a kind of divine intervention :))
and there's also a player (like some kind of divine intervention :))
HERE! Divine intervention. It turns out that the Player plays (sorry for the rambling) the role of a god. In turn, he is subordinate to an even higher Law. The highest laws are: 1) the rules of the game 2) the campaign scenario created by the game developers
Regarding the seers' huts, etc. I think that these seers and others can be attributed to the marginals (according to the definition given above).
That's right, we need to look at the bigger picture. Please provide an example of what goals different Factions have and how they take care of themselves.
By the way, I didn't even consider the fact that there is also a division among the Lords. With humans, it's clear - their society, as already mentioned, resembles human society (our medieval one), but what about other races? Do they have a division of Lords into subordinates and those who dominate?
This raises an interesting question about power relations, which, as you know, are formed by subjects, objects, and power (the relationship between them). Subjects: Lords. Only Lords. It's doubtful that one creature would be subordinate to another (on the other hand, in Heroes 4, this is quite possible - and in principle, a strong creature should, by definition, dominate the weak). Objects: Creatures, of course. But, considering the above, Lords can also be objects! And that's quite surprising. This subordination can be seen in the game itself: we choose one hero, developing him to the maximum, while the others perform supporting functions. Power: power is expressed in management and strength (is there anything else - I don't remember). Lords manage because they either use force or are stronger. Sometimes management is based on feelings (Again, Catherine and her companions:))
Goals? Well, let me try, although you may not agree with me. I'll take the Factions from Heroes 3. Castle (I keep forgetting what it's called, please remind me) - a feudal state, a monarchy. Goals: to promote the state in economic, domestic, and foreign relations. Rampart (I'm ashamed, I don't know) - it's definitely not feudalism. I don't remember, but I think it's also a monarchy. Goals: to maintain neutrality, to interfere in foreign policy only when they are in danger. Taking care of their home (forest). Tower (Bracada) - also not feudalism. Here, perhaps, it's a democracy. Since the main population consists of mages, and all the others are summoned or created, everyone is equal. Goals: to acquire knowledge. Inferno (Eofol) - I have no idea what this is. Perhaps it's anarchy. Since the strongest rules them. But not the wisest. Goals: in my opinion, it's simply - maximum power, world domination. Necropolis (well, I think it's like that) - here, I think it's a monarchy, since there is definitely some kind of super-cool necromancer who is in charge. Goals: to acquire knowledge, but unlike the Tower, the knowledge is about Death. Also, to gain power, world domination. They act very cunningly. Dungeon (Nighon) - I'm not sure. Well, perhaps it's a slave-owning system. I'm not sure, I probably made a mistake here. Well, the goals: approximately the same as Necropolis. Warlocks and necromancers are quite similar. Stronghold (Krigan) - anarchy, and again, the strongest gains power, and the rest are his henchmen. Goals: to plunder wealth. I don't think they know anything about economics, and whether they even know such a word, so the goal is: LOTS OF MONEY. (they are used as mercenaries). Fortress (Tatalia): probably a democracy, although I can't understand what the main population is, but it seems that it consists of lizards and gnolls. Goal: to improve the economy. (they are used as mercenaries). Conflux - I have nothing to say about this. This is my opinion. Much of the information here is inaccurate, so I'm waiting for corrections. If I'm completely wrong, then please set me on the right path, otherwise I'll be ashamed.)
Step aside from the way of a better man than you So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you Its the servants devotion for the decay Stand up
Goals? Well, let me try, although you may not agree with me. I'll take the factions from the third game. Castle (I keep forgetting what it's called, please remind me) - a feudal state, a monarchy. Goals: to promote the state in economic, domestic, and foreign relations. Rampart (I'm ashamed I don't know) - it's definitely not feudalism. I don't remember, but I think it's also a monarchy. Goals: to maintain neutrality, to interfere in foreign policy only when they are in danger. Caring for their home (forest). Tower (Bracada) - also not feudalism. Perhaps it's a democracy. Since the main population consists of mages, and all the others are summoned or created, everyone is equal. Goals: to acquire knowledge. Inferno (Eoful) - I have no idea. Perhaps it's anarchy. Because the strongest rules them. But not the wisest. Goals: in my opinion, it's simply - maximum power, world domination. Necropolis (well, I think that's what it is) - I think it's a monarchy, because there is definitely some kind of super-powerful necromancer who is in charge. Goals: to acquire knowledge, but unlike the Tower, the knowledge is about Death. Also, to gain power, world domination. They act very cunningly. Dungeon (Nigon) - I'm not sure. Well, perhaps a slave-owning system. I'm not sure, I probably made a mistake here. Well, the goals: approximately like Necropolis. Warlocks and necromancers are quite similar. Stronghold (Krigans) - anarchy, and again, the strongest gains power, and the rest are his henchmen. Goals: to plunder wealth. I don't think they know anything about economics, and whether they even know such a word, so the goal is: LOTS OF MONEY. (they are used as mercenaries). Fortress (Tatalia): probably a democracy, although I can't understand the main part of the population, but it seems that it consists of lizardmen and gnolls. Goal: to improve the economy. (they are used as mercenaries). Conflux - I can't say anything about this. This is my opinion. Much of the information here is inaccurate, so I'm waiting for corrections. If I'm completely wrong, then please set me on the right path, otherwise I'll be embarrassed).
It turns out that the overall goal is still self-development. Castle, Rampart, Tower - I agree. Inferno - yes, probably anarchy, but a peculiar one: strict power; a single ruler - these are the main characteristics of governance. Then the question is, where is the anarchy? Perhaps it's in social life: maybe there is no clear social structure, and everyone ignores each other?
Dungeon, Fortress (what does it mean, they are used as mercenaries?) - I agree. Stronghold, Necropolis - no. Stronghold - rather, a tribal structure - tribes with a strong leader (shaman) at the head. Necropolis doesn't fit into a monarchy, nor into a democracy. I think there is a special social structure here - these are the dead :). It suddenly occurred to me that these are separate corpses, united only by the goal of their existence in the world of Heroes. Conflux, maybe it's a monarchy. Although I don't know this castle very well either. In fact, in Heroes 3, it hardly appears in the campaigns.
Added 9 minutes ago Starhan;116644
Unfortunately, I know too little about the internal order of all races except the Enrot and Erafit races...
because I played "Return to Erafit" a long time ago and now I can barely remember it.
of the games I've played recently, these are Might and Magic 2, I got to the middle of Might and Magic 6, I completed the Life and Strength campaign in Might and Magic 4 and the Haven campaign in Might and Magic 5
well, it depends on what we're talking about :)
if you mean the social structure of each race, then your definition is not quite right
if you are trying to determine the game structure, then it is true that there are heroes, there are creatures :) but this is obvious
(I've thought of something else, I need to find a place to put the huts of seers, witches, and other objects)
Added 4 minutes ago and there is also a player (as a kind of divine intervention :))
Then what is the social division? I think that the huts of seers and other similar objects do not belong to the marginalized, on the contrary, they organically fit into the social structure, and even direct society along a certain path of development. For example, for delivering an artifact, they give such a reward that it is impossible to refuse to complete the mission. The Lord (or hero) simply changes the goals of the race to complete the task, while leaving the main goal untouched. As for the objects that bring money (I don't remember what they are called - a lair of nagas, demons, etc.), these creatures can probably be attributed to the marginalized, but this is until a place is found for them.
Regarding the player, I agree, he is God, but at the same time he is not God. He directs the movements of the heroes, but he cannot change the course of history (in the campaigns) and his goal is limited by the framework of victory (he must almost always win in the campaign, I'm not talking about winning the battle here) - this is exactly what the Dreamer is talking about.
So, what is the social division? I don't think Seer Huts and similar objects belong to the marginalized; on the contrary, they organically fit into the social structure and even, to some extent, guide society along a certain path of development. For example, delivering an artifact earns such a reward that it is impossible to refuse to complete the mission. The Lord (or hero) simply changes the race's goals to complete the task, while leaving the main goal untouched. .
However, this does not prevent them from remaining marginalized. Perhaps each of us simply has a different understanding of the meaning of the word "marginal." I can't formulate the concept specifically right now, but, roughly speaking, a Marginal is a subject of society that does not have a specific status. It is a subject of society that is outside of this society. It's a bit unclear, but unfortunately, I don't have a dictionary at hand. :(
In principle, it's understandable. I agree that all these hermits and seers are part of society, but they exist outside of it, not only physically but also in terms of their goals (they pursue somewhat different objectives) and how they act (they don't fight, they don't accumulate resources, etc.). In general, a marginal person is someone who has broken ties with their social group and has not joined another. They are in a state of transition. Therefore, we need to somehow change the definition of other creatures that were previously called marginals.
2Dragons Fortress, judging by the Campaigns, is a country that provides troops for service as mercenaries for someone. Necromancer, here it's either a monarchy or a democracy because the undead are clearly not a social class. It's like calling computers a social class. There's only one of them, and that's the Necromancers themselves, that is, those who are not subordinate to anyone and have their own mind and will. I defined Stronghold as such because I think that the main leader there is someone who had more strength and troops than others and seized power. The Shaman is probably something like an advisor, although in fact, he can rule the country using a formal ruler as a puppet. Yes, of course, the priority is self-development. Unless Rampart, as I understand it, tries to remain as conservative as possible and do everything to prevent anything from changing in its society. That is why they try to be as isolated as possible from the other groups. Perhaps the reason is that their society has developed enough. (At least in their opinion)
Step aside from the way of a better man than you So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you Its the servants devotion for the decay Stand up
I would like to ask the participants in the discussion to also consider the plot of Heroes, and not just the game mechanics. Your classifications contradict the plot in many ways. I will post mine later.
I would like to ask the participants in the discussion to also use the plot of Heroes, and not just the game mechanics. Your classifications contradict the plot in many ways. I will post mine later.
Unfortunately, I haven't fully completed all parts of Heroes (I am currently correcting this). Therefore, I rely only on the facts that I saw in the scenarios and in the part of the campaign that I completed.
Step aside from the way of a better man than you So you fall at his feet hes the one who betrays you Its the servants devotion for the decay Stand up
Starhan
