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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to MerlinTheMagician
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7 years ago
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MerlinTheMagician
Hmm, in this case, you simply interpreted the situation in your own favor on your own, without informing either your opponent or the judges. And that is strange. It is even stranger that you subsequently had an expert terrain preview. It is even stranger that you have plenty of tutorial streams and a large amount of material dedicated specifically to the map generator. And the strangest thing of all is that you did not consider it necessary to notify your opponent of a violation that had already been revealed, even if unintentional, on your part.
Are you serious about writing to Stinger regarding a "couple of piles of gold"? In Heroes, sometimes even 10 gold coins decide the outcome... But here, next to that road, you picked up three piles of 2800 gold and a pile of gems at week 1 day 21 (and before that, at week 1 day 17, also a campfire, a pile of resources, a chest, and gold) - in a growth buyout scenario this is significant, especially since you were also trading resources there. That's the first thing. Second - you did not leave another player's respawn. After that - after picking up that "couple of piles" you took the Griffin Conservatory on another player's respawn, meaning when it had already become obvious that it was another player's respawn (and the talk about you "being foggy at 2 AM" is just childish). One could argue about where the respawn boundary lies - there are formal loopholes in the rules one could try to latch onto, but, I repeat, there is a nearby town of your own, next to which the generator clearly marked the respawn boundaries in that area - combined with the mine, that is quite sufficient, at least to stop the game and request the judges' input.
Or, in your opinion, is an unintentional (unwitting) violation not a violation, and therefore victory in similar situations is legitimate?
I took the trouble to review the recording from your side (initially I thought the Griffin Conservatory was taken first, and then the road was revealed).
Timeline. (In my subjective view)
Week 1 day 17 - the road is revealed - an obvious encroachment onto another respawn (but you were foggy), someone even wrote about another respawn in the chat. Pyre near the road, after its revelation, picks up a campfire, resources, a chest of 1000, a pile of gold of 1000.
Week 1 day 21 - three more piles of 2800 gold and a pile of gems are picked up by Pyre near the road on another player's respawn, securing the buyout before taking the big Griffin Conservatory at the main.
Week 1 day 22 - Pyre takes the Griffin Conservatory on another player's respawn (just a level 3 Griffin Conservatory). After that, terrain preview is cast, but you didn't even look at the roads of the neighboring respawn (although usually the entire map is scouted in overview - there's plenty of timer to look at everything - just in case you have to move to other respawns in the endgame...).
Of course, there's nothing to inform the opponent about...
In the end, you write the following in the AK topic: guys, I unintentionally broke the rules because I was foggy. Here, it's like "by common understanding," everything is obvious. The opponent makes a decision - either to count it as a technical loss for you, or simply nullify the result and replay the game. In a tournament, it would be a clear technical forfeit: all your manipulations after the road was revealed, starting from week 1 day 17, are violations that provided a very serious advantage (an undeniable 5 thousand plus for buyout plus the debatable level 3 Griffin Conservatory) and victory in the game.

You're wasting your time, your writing doesn't interest me. I ask again, if we don't consider the road option (where I said I broke the rules by mistake), what would happen in a tournament game if a similar situation arises? Can this point be somehow spelled out in the rules?
In reply to Gomunguls
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7 years ago
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Gomunguls
You're wasting your time, I'm not interested in your writing. I'm asking again, if we don't consider the option with the path (where I said I broke the rules by mistake), what will happen in a tournament match if a similar situation arises? Can this be clarified in the rules?

And what decision did you make regarding this game? Because it seems like, since it's not a tournament game, you can just keep playing when suspicions arise and not write anything, and just quietly break the rules?
And, as I understand it, you've already answered several times that you need to save, contact the judges, and sort it out.
In reply to ЯR
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7 years ago
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YaR
What decision did you make regarding this game? It seems like, since it's not a tournament game, you can just keep playing and ignore any suspicions, and not report anything, essentially allowing cheating?
We've already answered several times that you should save the game, contact the judges, and resolve the issue.

We're playing for fun at 3 AM, what judges are you talking about? Should I write to Merlin?
In reply to Gomunguls
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7 years ago
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Gomunguls
We're playing for fun at 3 AM, who needs judges? Merlin can write to them)))
The rules clearly state that if there are no judges, the game should be saved until they appear.
7 years ago
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In my opinion:
1) In this particular game, the situation is indeed not a problem, since the opponent is Stinger, and he is a nice guy, so he won't make it an issue.
2) In a tournament game against a non-nice guy, the only option for the player is to save, ask the judges, and wait.
3) Continuing to play after discovering a road with resource gathering on another respawn under the current rules should result in a tech loss (and not be "decided on a case-by-case basis," as Dirty said).
This does not prevent, with the opponent's consent, either playing this match as is or arranging a replay; this concerns a mean opponent, such as situations from the past of kamikaze vs jelen on a Blitz Jebus or bolo vs surmay in a SM, when reasonable conversations with the opponent are impossible.
I mean, the player not only "violated" the rules but, having realized it, didn't write to anyone and decided to continue playing in silence. Quietly stole it and left — that's called "found it." In this case, it's a tech loss.
If he picked it up, immediately realized it, immediately saved, and wrote to the opponent and the judge — it's decided on a case-by-case basis, as Dirty said.

The most interesting question from Homunculus is whether the rules can somehow be improved.
At first glance, bugged passages on the same terrain do not have a clear universal solution, and what can be improved here is unclear. You need to look at the save, and the judge should say where the boundary is — then play accordingly. And that's exactly what the rules already say.
But maybe Homunculus has some suggestions/ideas/arguments? What can be improved here? Why does he think that after discovering a road (in general, any obvious sign of a bugged passage) you can pick something up, keep quiet about it, and continue playing — and all of this makes sense? These are not rhetorical questions; I, for example, could easily come up with such ideas, but I wouldn't propose them myself (they don't seem convincing yet) — I'd like to hear the discussion initiator's thoughts.
In reply to Grando
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7 years ago
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Al Feyn
3) According to the current rules, a technical disqualification should be issued for continuing the game after discovering a path with resource collection on a different spawn point (and not "decided individually," as Dirty said).
I don't remember a single case where a technical disqualification was given for an unintentional violation of the rules. That is, if a player could not know that they were violating the rules, but still received a technical disqualification, it contradicts common sense.
I repeat, the boundaries and the glitched passage indicated by Reddit are not 100% obvious. Whether a player could distinguish a glitched passage from a normal one is precisely what needs to be decided individually.
7 years ago
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That’s exactly what I wrote – that those responsible for continuing the game remained silent after the violation became apparent (a solution was found).

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