Posts from Favorites, into battle! - 11. Auto-translated

Besides, it's only in the later stages. You still have to get there:

9. In the group stage and in the early stages of the playoffs in the loser's bracket, games are played without simultaneous turns.
10. All BO3 matches in the upper bracket (matches of the Transition Stage and Playoffs for the top places in the groups) and matches in the lower bracket starting from 1/4 (top-12) are played with simultaneous turns.

Am I correct in understanding that this is the first paid official tournament?

Definitely not in the early stages, but we'll see closer to the event.
For now, we should assume that in the later stages, yes, it will be a paid tournament, you won't be wrong. But you never know for sure until you try.

Only 9 people voted for the option that strictly excludes Overlord Heroes (OH). (I'm not claiming this as a fact, but it seems that even among them, there are people who play with OH now). The rest are, to some extent, willing to play with OH. Among those who play with OH, I don't know anyone who would be disappointed and say that it's a complete waste.

Isn't that enough? In this case, it's like 9 vetoes.

If you think this is a huge concession on your part, has anyone thanked you for it? I think if something like that happened, it was probably only a few times, and you can only "buy" OH with those few.

... I know of several cases where people offered or bought OH for their opponent.

I know of some too. A Chinese player sometimes shares his account, and fans of Toga donated to me for one term.

What about those who believe they have the right to play without restructuring? Or without a chess timer? How about their hurt feelings?
If you remember, there were many opponents of various innovations, but in the end, people were forced to accept them, and no one died. Now, no one plays without these options anymore. The same will happen with OH, it's just a matter of time.

Well, yes, and no. And people do die. Both literally and figuratively. And it's becoming harder to reach 100 points in tournaments. And each such destructive wave washes away some players into the abyss. And they weren't forced, they were presented with a fait accompli.
And comparing innovations as facts is one thing, but imposing a paid OH service is a dirty trick. Especially if you look at its underlying nature, which divides players (because in HotA, this option is standard and free - and they want to transfer players to that platform). Understanding that he can profit from this, Baratortch is making money off the community he worked for (or did out of enjoyment?).

In what sense? There are no fees...
Or are you talking about introducing OH at the rules level? It can be done more simply. Those who are fundamentally unwilling to pay for Baratortch's work should fundamentally not use the HD mod either (which is also the result of Baratortch's work, right?). Let them play with discs or in emulation mode, for example...

You're putting yourself in a very awkward position with a bad example. You're focusing on bypassing the protection of legal copies (i.e., piracy). Don't pay the publishers, but pay the hacker Baratortch.
And he wasn't hired; he did everything on his own initiative. And without the community (without testing, without requests, etc.), he wouldn't have done any of this. And you would be playing tic-tac-toe or chess if you didn't want to pay for a legal copy of Heroes.

After all, this small fee is not only for OH, but in principle, it's a tribute to a person who has been developing and implementing software solutions for so many years, spending a huge amount of his personal time.

Paying with money and showing respect are completely different concepts. Everyone here spends time, voluntarily and free of charge, and so do you. But no one is asking for money.
Everything is based on goodwill. And hundreds of modders - no one has ever asked for money. Software should be free. Everything is based on donations. No one is doing commerce here, except for individual streamers.
OH saves some time, but sometimes it puts a strain on the system like an RTS. And there are big problems and bugs. I often encountered problems with encounters, and then a lot of time is spent on arguments. Saves are not saved, after interruptions in battle - it's fatal, and then you have to reload and replay. And there are expected scandals on contact templates. Create a backup account, or just give up a free one at the end.

What should be done with those who believe they have the right to play without turn limits? Or without a chess timer? How about their hurt feelings?

On HeroesPortal, by the way, the only section of the forum that is still active is the offline tournaments section, i.e., correspondence games.
OH is another extreme, almost an RTS. A timer is the golden mean. In my opinion, imposing rules is evil. It should be by mutual agreement.
Rebellious mentioned the technical problems of OH; I'll add: does it seem to me, or does Blue in OH not have the ability to monitor in real-time through the Tavern the purchase of 2nd and 3rd heroes by Red (of course, if they are stronger than the previous one)?

Something feels like the Heroic spirit is in the air...

Everyone here spends their time voluntarily, for free, and you're no exception. But nobody is demanding money.

What time and what are we even talking about?
If we're talking about how many people do so much for the community, I can understand that. But. There is a "but." Baratorch has already voiced his position on this several times—he is not interested in SOD. At the same time, we don't see a fierce crowd of other Baratorches who will take on the support, development, and implementation of SOD improvements. Furthermore, allow me to remind you that the publisher-developer, whom all the old-schoolers (including myself) who remember the days of CD-ROMs paid faithfully for discs with every update, stopped the development and support of the game, vanishing into oblivion: I repeat, does this stop you from using amateur pirate mods in general? Or are you still playing from a disc?
And if a programmer at some point states that he is no longer willing to maintain this mod on a sponsorship basis and wants to somehow compensate for the resources he expends—that is completely normal (because this is precisely where the response of the target audience follows—whether it's needed or not).

And compensation is not commercial profit, but specifically compensation—a volunteer's expenses for maintaining the project—this is kind of standard practice. It's just that we've grown accustomed to freebies and have been spoiled. Times have long since changed... And if tomorrow, for example, the Creator says that some minimum subscription fee is being introduced on the portal, I will categorically support him and sign up for a subscription.
It is my deep conviction that a person should not work for free. And to reproach someone for not wanting to work for free is utter madness, along the lines of "there's no money, but you just hang in there"...
As for the fact that OX will gradually be introduced at the rules level—this is, if you will, a trend of the times—it's much more convenient to spend 6-8 hours on a game with all the restarts, rather than 10-12... Especially when it comes to meeting tournament deadlines. I'm actually in favor of introducing OX by default until the date of a possible "by agreement" re.
And in a paid mode for this matter, the target audience will finally be able to dictate their own conditions, needs, and wants to the person handling development and support. But until the moment of any payment, no one owes anyone anything a priori and has no right to make any demands, claims, or the like.
And right now, work on bugs is ongoing, regular updates and fixes are being released (aren't they?). OX is generally a very bug-prone thing in principle. Or do you want everything all at once? For a ready-made, ideal, maximally tested version to be handed to you on a silver platter (especially since we're talking about existing primary code with built-in bugs)? That's possible—but the price tag will be different (about two hundred times higher)... Ready to cough up the cash?..

Yes, there is some insignificant decline in the tournament audience, but the general trend itself is already such that without any OX, regular traditional tournaments are becoming less interesting: everyone has played everyone and then some, it's grown stale. The tournaments themselves need new formats. The problem with filling the "Favorites" tournament, for instance, is primarily linked to that strange commotion with discussions that was started, which significantly deterred not only potentially new audiences but also a number of "fathers." And on top of all that, the final regulations only appeared a few days ago. That's why many started registering in the last few days.

And for the principled—again, you can still find discs somewhere, and even computers with disc drives... I recall our offline tournaments of the early 2000s in Yekaterinburg... When sometimes 8 hours were spent just on restarts... We paid for that even back then and were happy: game discs, renting computers in clubs...
And let's not forget that in the standard licensed version, there are dozens, and now probably hundreds, of times more bugs than in the evolving "pirate" mods.

I'm curious how people would react if the HD mod itself was paid, and not just the Overhaul.

A question along the lines of "would you perform an unnatural sexual act for a million dollars?". In theory, you can answer and fantasize, but in practice, no one will give you that million.

There are also big problems and bugs. I often encountered problems with matches, and it takes a lot of time to argue afterwards. Saves don't work, which is fatal after interruptions in battles, and then you have to redo things when reloading. And there are bound to be scandals with the contact templates.

By the way, this is a real problem for me. And it was unexpected. And not just this. I would like to improve communication with Baratortch and the Creator on work-related issues that directly affect the quality of tournament organization and the reliability of resolving controversial situations.

There are very mysterious decisions. As a tournament organizer, I would like to have at least the opportunity to receive answers as to why things are done one way and not another. So that I can explain it to the participants. Sometimes questions are asked, but there are simply no answers for months.
Regarding saves at the beginning of the game, for example. It is extremely important that saves at the beginning of the game work perfectly, including saving immediately after generation, before any actions are taken at all (this was first stated more than a year ago), and that battle saves are made during the initial exchange (even if it is impossible to continue the game from them, battle saves are not only for this), but the latest changes to the HD mod paradoxically work completely against this. And also - if before, after the restart stage, I saw saves of all generations, then in the last game I didn't even find that. I haven't even had time to figure out how this happened.
But if this is confirmed, and it continues like this, then I will play without the initial exchange for these reasons. I am not inclined to say that right now we need a perfect organization of the list of tasks for improving the HD mod, and prioritization with a hint of adequacy, although at least for a start, it would be good to have the opportunity to receive answers to the questions asked in the HD mod discussion, in order to understand how decisions are made in general, and on what basis.

I wonder how people would react if the HD mod itself was paid, and not just the Overhaul.

If I were Baratortch, I would have done exactly that a couple of years ago... Want it? Pay for it, don't want it? Play the old way with all the accompanying mess... (From an ordinary user's perspective, it's simply explained: the trial period is over...)

I would like to establish communication with Baratortch and the Creator regarding work-related issues that directly affect the quality of tournament organization and the reliability of resolving controversial situations.

I can't say anything about the Creator - I haven't had the need to interact with him directly.
I contacted Baratortch directly before CIS-2018 on my own initiative (regarding extending access to the Overhaul for the CIS-18 period, etc.). I contacted him in a private message, and we communicated without any obstacles (of course, not with instant replies, but all issues were discussed taking into account Baratortch's workload - that is, with a time buffer in advance).
"He who seeks, finds..." :smile16:

This is one of those questions like, "Would you engage in an unnatural sexual act for a million dollars?". In theory, you can answer and fantasize, but in practice, no one will give you that million :D

Watch the old movie "Indecent Proposal," it's exactly about this topic.

By the way, this is a real problem for me as an organizer, and it was unexpected. And not just this. I would like to establish communication with Baratortch and the Creator on work-related issues that directly relate to the quality of tournament organization and the reliability of resolving controversial situations.

It's funny to hear that people who want to play without Overlord Heroes (OH) write about some bugs, etc. And those who play with OH continue to play and everything suits them. Indeed, it's not very pleasant when OH breaks down during encounters on standard maps, like with a spider. But this is just a small drawback that can be overlooked. This is one of those cases where the pros far outweigh the cons. It's enough to clearly define the order of actions, and that's it. Ideally, this should be defined at the level of the rules, since the introduction of OH is inevitable anyway.

In general, I would suggest equating early OH break to a restart upon encounter, but there are many questions here, such as the possibility of avoiding the encounter, etc. Therefore, in the case of an OH break, load the save and continue without OH. The blue player then takes their turn at their discretion, without repeating moves.

As for the bugged interruption of turns, when there is no encounter and there cannot be (Jebus, Mini-Nost), either continue playing without OH, or load the save with OH from the previous turn; this often helps.

I'm genuinely curious about the reason behind this wave of philosophers who either dislike the O.H. – a pirated development – or don't want to be registered for the tournament. Why are they starting these discussions here? As Caliban wrote, he's willing to play 1-2 games even without O.H., and I think most people feel the same way. If they don't like the rules, there's only one solution: don't register, and that's it.

Aren't you interested in the reason? Is it just a figure of speech?

Aren't you even a little bit interested in the reason? Is it just a figure of speech?

Not really, of course. I think it's because people have free time for it. But I could be wrong.

This is just one of the reasons. Sam, it's obvious that the Heroes of Might and Magic forum is a forum for people who have free time. Everyone here has some free time. Without it, it's impossible to play the game itself. But some people philosophize, and some don't. It's definitely not about free time.

I don't understand the purpose of a transitional tournament. It's a group tournament, followed by a winner's and loser's bracket. The idea is to have fewer winners, so by starting the winner's bracket from a later round, there will be fewer of them – is that the whole point of a transitional tournament?