Posts from Player rating for tournaments across all installments of Heroes.

Here, they keep bringing up different sports, but for some reason, no one mentioned the sports where the IronAxe system is implemented almost identically – that sport is the decathlon (if I'm not mistaken about the number of events it includes). For those who don't know, in these competitions, athletes jump in the long jump, jump in the high jump, throw the javelin, run different distances with and without hurdles, etc. For each event, points are awarded not for the place taken, but for a certain number of points, the specific value of which depends only on the result shown and does not depend on the place taken. A similar system is also used in speed skating. This also includes multi-day cycling races, in which, however, the time of individual stages is simply summed up, and the overall winner is determined based on this sum, and how many stages you won, or whether you won any at all, doesn't matter to anyone. If you outperform everyone in a particular event, then others must also put in a lot of effort in other events to catch up with you, and that's right!!!
In my opinion, this system is best suited for Heroes.

P.S. At one time, I also believed that the place taken in our tournaments should be taken into account, but after looking at the proposed systems (whether it's an oscillator or 50/50), it became clear to me that they bring a certain number of participants who took places 2nd and lower closer to the leader, while significantly increasing the gap between the leader and the players whose results were among the last (and the difference in results between the leader and these players may be quite small). Then I started to remember the calculation systems used in various sports, and it turned out that a "wheel" for competitions similar to ours has long been invented and is an analogue of the system proposed by IronAxe.

Better "medals" and titles than this...

Let me give you another example using your running sport, like the 100-meter dash. The leader finished in 9 seconds, and the second-place runner showed up an hour later but still took second place. And you're suggesting giving this athlete a rating as if he actually earned second place, regardless of his result? Why would we need that when we want to actually compare the strength of players?

I've shown and proven many times that a place in an offline game in Heroes means nothing, UNLESS IT'S FIRST PLACE!! ;) The result is what matters here. But in online play, it's exactly the opposite. It doesn't matter who beat whom in how many days; personal victories of each player over every other player are important, and as a result, the place in the tournament plays the MAIN role. And the results in days are irrelevant.

Decathlon and speed skating are out. They have a fixed number of rating points for every 1 second and 1 meter of result, meaning the gap between leaders is accounted for automatically, not as you've done, and I'm interested in how you will determine this figure for each map individually...

With the mentioned "bicycle" that you are trying to "remake" even simpler. There is such a universal unit of measurement as hours, minutes, seconds. In Heroes, however, it's days, experience, skeletons. It's simpler there—all these data are summed up. In our case, you are essentially proposing to sum up days, experience, and skeletons (to put it bluntly). Not to mention the

much greater specificity of hero maps compared to bicycle tracks. This is what I've been trying to say for a good dozen
posts, and I suggest taking into account only the place taken.

to IronAxe.
I am grateful to you for not uttering a single "sharp" word in the last two posts, which are present in abundance in your arsenal. Believe me, it only makes you look better, and not only in my eyes. Furthermore, the discussion is moving in a productive direction. And I like jokes and humor too, and no one has ever come to harm from them.;)

Decathlon and skating are out of the question. There, a fixed number of rating points are assigned for each second and meter of result achieved, meaning the gap between the leaders is calculated automatically, not like in your case, and I'm curious how you would determine this number for each map individually...

This competition is definitely a real one; you can represent the approximate skill level of a player using any system!

With the "bicycle" you mentioned, which you are trying to "redesign," it's much simpler. There is a universal unit of measurement, such as hours, minutes, and seconds. In Heroes, however, there are days, experience, and skeletons. It's simpler there – all this data is summed up. In our case, you are essentially suggesting summing days, experience, and skeletons (exaggerating).

And it is unlikely that anything similar (a universal unit) can be found for this system in Heroes (the first thing that comes to mind is the points for the map, which the game itself awards).

Theoretically, this is possible when a runner breaks a leg or tears a muscle and crawls the 100-meter dash, but more often, they simply drop out of the race ;)
So, there can be no talk of a REAL comparison of player strength, because offline, it simply cannot be called a real competition... here's an example... athletes record their run (or not their own) on video and send it to the sports commission, where the results are summarized and places are awarded. Is that nonsense? - that's exactly what I'm saying!!! :).

A rating is not a good solution in this situation... :smile38: Medals and titles are better than this...

No one is going to sum up days, experience, and skeletons, where did you see that? In fact, dimensionless units are summed up, which are ratios: days/days, skeletons/skeletons, experience/experience. You know perfectly well that the points for a map turn out to be the same even with a different number of days, and skeletons and experience are not taken into account at all (at least in Heroes of Might and Magic III).

I have the impression that Dmitry AS hasn't seen or understood the formulas used for the calculations. Otherwise, he wouldn't be writing what he's writing.

I doubt he hasn't seen it... He's just presenting his point of view, considering it the most rational solution for calculating the rating. After all, you too, Iron, only suggested whether it's worth fighting over it? Or will it be another year... :D

Why aren't you comparing it to other intellectual sports like correspondence chess, where the goal is to solve a chess problem in the fewest moves? Isn't that a bit weak? You could even record it on video and send the result. Listen, dude :) And no one has brought up weightlifting as an example yet. I agree with that – a video result wouldn't work because some scoundrel could record themselves lifting a rubber barbell. I'm laughing so hard :)

Let them then answer and explain why, in a situation where the result for 2nd place will be 100 days compared to 5 days for the leader, their system gives the player a FREE RIDE in the ranking, isn't that right? You guys are just running around, Excel this and Excel that :)

I have the impression that Dmitry hasn't seen or understood the formulas used for the calculations. Otherwise, he wouldn't be writing what he's writing.

No one is going to sum up days, experience, and skeletons, where did you see that? In fact, dimensionless units are summed up, which are ratios: days/days, skeletons/skeletons, experience/experience.

And here is AmberSoler's farewell speech when he got tired of arguing (maybe he was joking?).

As for good offline and online players, it's easier to become a good offline player than an online player because an offline player only needs time and resources, which they usually get a month for, while an online player has 1-4 minutes per turn :) and only experience:smile10: ... a lot of experience:smile51:

Offline players also have a lot of experience in the game, and they often know many clever tricks. The problem is that not all of them can be applied online. And in online games, luck plays a big role. Because with a time limit, a player might make a small mistake, and that mistake could be fatal. Don't tell me that experienced players never make mistakes.