OFB-12 — Tournament History online

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Tournament Ended

Overview Participants Reports

Announcement

Sanin

7/13/2018 11:15 AM UTC

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«OFB - 12»

Registration is open for the qualifying tournament for the most prestigious online HoMM 3 tournament on heroesworld.ru – «Final Battle»

Organizational Matters:

1. Tournament host – Sanin (ICQ - 423164784); judges – LuckyF (ICQ - 681350680), Dave_HUN (ICQ - 635192642), Dirty Player (ICQ - 408722873).
2. The tournament is official, regular, and conducted according to the Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments.
3. All tournament games are included in the HoMM3 HW Player Rating.
4. After the start of tournament games, the tournament regulations will not change.
5. Disputed matters, if any arise, are discussed outside the forum. To resolve, contact the host or one of the tournament judges on ICQ and provide daily save files, ICQ logs, and other necessary information.
6. Tournament games must be played within the established deadline. Violation of game deadlines may, at the discretion of the host and tournament judges, result in penalties up to and including disqualification from the tournament.

Requirements for Participants:

- Players with unconfirmed reports will not be accepted into the tournament.
- Applications from players recently registered on the forum will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis.
- The organizers reserve the right to refuse registration to players who have repeatedly withdrawn or been disqualified from other HeroesWorld tournaments.

Regulations

Rules:

1. Game Version: The tournament is played on the SoD version + HD mod.
2. Tournament games use the HW_rulez 1.40 and HW_rulez 1.38.2 patches.
HW_rulez 1.38.2 patch is used for playing on the h3dm1 template and for games in "Battle of Mages" mode.
HW_rulez 1.40 patch is used for all other templates and in all rounds except the second.
3. The tournament is conducted according to the rules of online HoMM 3 games.
Clarification to the rules: on all templates, the "Mage Guild Restructure" option must be enabled, while when playing with the HW_rulez 1.40 patch, the "Library Restructure" option is disabled. When playing with the HW_rulez 1.38.2 patch, there are no restrictions on Library Restructure.
4. Restarts total 3 days (111+111+111 or 111+112 or 113), for the h3dm1 template – one day (111).
5. Templates:
Panic, h3dm1, Diamond, Mini-Nostalgia, Jebus Cross, 6lm10a, Spider.
The template is chosen by standard drawing of lots, the order of the draw is determined by a coin toss.
6. The tournament game regulations will change depending on the round.
First Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Second Round: standard bidding, games are played with the "Battle of Mages" option enabled (more about the option).
Third Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Fourth Round: standard bidding, but opponents choose each other's starting heroes (see the 2010 tournament for an example).
Details. For all templates except h3dm1: after generating a pair of towns in the lobby, standard bidding takes place. The player who wins the bidding chooses their town first, after which opponents assign each other starting heroes.
For the h3dm1 template: a random town is generated in the lobby, after which opponents bid for the right to assign the opponent's hero first.
Fifth Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Sixth Round: 200% fullrandom on all templates. Color is determined by a coin toss and changes after each subjective restart.
Seventh Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
Eighth Round: standard bidding, games are played without rules on all templates.
Ninth Round: standard bidding, standard rules.
7. Color selection: bidding is conducted for the right to choose color (exception - sixth round).

Tournament Format:

1. Registration from July 13 to July 21 (dates may be adjusted, follow updates).
2. Start of tournament games – July 23, 2018. End of tournament – November 26, 2018.
3. The tournament is conducted using the Swiss system in 9 rounds. Each round lasts 14 days.
4. Within the round deadline, a report of the completed round game must be submitted in the tournament thread to record the tournament result. Failure to comply with this rule requirement will result in either a technical result or a 0-0 score being assigned for the match.
5. Round deadlines:
Round 1: July 23 – August 5
Round 2: August 6 – August 19
Round 3: August 20 – September 2
Round 4: September 3 – September 16
Round 5: September 17 – September 30
Round 6: October 1 – October 14
Round 7: October 15 – October 28
Round 8: October 29 – November 11
Round 9: November 12 – November 25
6. A win gives 3 points, a draw gives 1 point, a loss gives 0 points.
Places are determined based on points earned.
In case of a tie in points, the following tiebreakers apply in order of priority:
1) Buchholz coefficient;
2) Number of wins;
3) Head-to-head result;
If the tiebreakers do not allow for the distribution of places among participants who may qualify for the final stage of the tournament, tie-breaks will be held.
Tie-break rules: drawing lots for templates, random pair of towns + bidding for town choice and color choice.
7. 16 players participate in the «Final Battle–12»:
FB-11 Winner LuckyF,
FB-11 2nd place Dave_HUN,
FB-11 3rd place FireToSky,
Winner or finalist of the «Only XL-5» tournament,
Winner or finalist of the «Favorites, Into Battle-10» tournament,
Winner or finalist of the «Wowa Memorial» tournament,
Winner of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament, provided they have a rating of 1750+,
The top 9 places (guaranteed) – from the OFB-12 tournament.

Additions:
If the winner of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament refuses to participate in FB-12, their slot will be taken by the finalist of that tournament;
If the winner (finalist) of the «Новичок - 2018. Winter» tournament does not have a rating of 1750+ at the start of the FB-12 tournament, their slot will be taken by the player who finished 10th or lower in OFB-12;
If LuckyF, Dave_HUN or FireToSky refuse to participate in FB-12, their slot will be taken by a player from the OFB-12 tournament;
If LuckyF, Dave_HUN or FireToSky win the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments, the right to participate in FB-12 passes to the finalists of those tournaments.
If the winners of the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments are among the players who take a qualifying place in OFB-12 or refuse to participate in the FB-12 tournament, the right to participate in FB-12 passes to the finalists of those tournaments.
If the finalists of the «Only XL-5», «Favorites, Into Battle-10» or «Wowa Memorial» tournaments are also among the players who take a qualifying place in OFB-12, or refuse to participate in the FB-12 tournament, their slot will be taken by the player who finished 10th or lower in OFB-12.

ICQ 423164784

In reply to Dima Surmay

Dirty_Player

11/14/2018 11:38 AM UTC

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As long as these tournaments last, so do the debates about the "sportsmanship" of pre-arranged draws in the final rounds. In the end, everyone remained with their own opinion.

Added 1 minute ago

Dima Surmay

If it's allowed to arrange draws without playing, then the last draw should be conducted using a different principle so that pairs don't end up where a draw would be beneficial for both players to advance to the final bracket.

I can't even come up with an adequate solution that would make this possible.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Dima Surmay

11/14/2018 12:03 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

I can't even come up with a reasonable scenario where this is possible.

The simplest option is 1-13, 2-14; of course, we can think about it further and perhaps come up with something better.

In reply to Dima Surmay

Dirty_Player

11/14/2018 12:11 PM UTC

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Dima Surmay

the simplest option is 1-13, 2-14, but of course, we can think more and possibly come up with something better.

And will the teams competing for 6-7th place, which are vying for a spot, play against the team in 20th place, which is no longer in contention? Is that better? In any case, this contradicts the very idea of the Swiss system.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Dima Surmay

11/14/2018 12:22 PM UTC

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Dirty_Player

Wouldn't it be better if the 6th-7th place, which is competing for a spot, played against the 20th place, which is no longer in contention? Isn't that better? In any case, this contradicts the very idea of the Swiss system.

I think it's better. Well, if not, then it's not. For me, the most important thing is knowing exactly what is allowed and what is not according to the rules. In the past, OFB was not allowed, but now it seems it is.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Ihromant

11/14/2018 12:28 PM UTC

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In the latest draw, I don't understand one point. There are 3 players with 21 points who are playing against 3 players with 18 points. Ideally, the Swiss system should have paired two 21-point players and one 21-point player with an 18-point player. But instead, it turns out that three players who have already qualified will be playing against three players who really need to earn at least 1 point (hello, arranged draw!).

Maybe I don't understand the Swiss system well, but as far as I'm concerned, it should group players based on the closest point values.

(I deliberately avoided the word "point")

Мой любимьій размер - тройка. Будь то конса, утопа или сиськи
ICQ:5676388

In reply to Ihromant

Xocenk

11/14/2018 12:37 PM UTC

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It's very simple, we've played against each other before.
I'm not going to give away a free draw or victory, just so you know.

ICQ - 703804372
Discord - Xocenk#2473

In reply to Dima Surmay

kamukag3e

11/14/2018 12:39 PM UTC

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Dima Surmay

I think it's better this way. Well, if not, then it's not. For me, the most important thing is knowing exactly what is allowed by the rules and what isn't. In the previous OFB, it wasn't allowed, but now it seems it is.

Recently, there was a discussion in the Armageddon chat about draws in SOD (Strategic Options Duel). The community was trying to understand whether a "true" draw is possible in Heroes, similar to a draw in chess. Personally, I concluded that a draw in Heroes is just another game result, like a victory or a defeat. There is no prohibition of draws in the rules; establishing such a prohibition through the rules of Hv (Hotseat Variant) or separately through tournament rules would be a major headache for judges and organizers. In any case, a draw on map 111 and 211 is the result of an agreement between the players, not a specific rule, unless a separate rule is introduced requiring a mandatory and final OFB (no running away or buying off) at a specific turn. Even if the players are required to play with a stream and a draw is only recognized by the decision of the judges, it is still impossible to influence the players' agreement on a draw if it suits them. For example, players can waste the entire allotted time in the game on stream and not try to defeat each other.

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to HellLighT

theShevanesian

11/14/2018 12:44 PM UTC

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HellLighT

Bought a town + color cheaply, repelled 2 rests, opponent was out of everything, then the draw wasn't bad, but everything was devoured by moralities, started taking hives with a single Griffin Conservatory on a wing and a prayer, Kyrre was leveling up poorly, was going to take Dragon Utopias which, as revealed upon opening, were 3+maximum and there I would have gotten a good beating for a few stats ... but the opponent couldn't handle it, thanks for the game!

Thanks for the game!

In reply to Dima Surmay

Sanin

11/14/2018 7:36 PM UTC

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Dima Surmay

The simplest option is 1-13, 2-14, although we can certainly think about it further and possibly come up with something better.

Dirty_Player

And will the 6-7th place, which is vying for a spot, play against the 20th place, which is no longer in contention? Is that better? In any case, this contradicts the very idea of the Swiss system.

For the future, here's an idea: the same nine rounds of the Swiss system. Let's say we need to select 10 people. We make the top three places automatic qualifiers, and the places from 4 to 17 play tiebreaker matches in a BO3 format: 4-17, 5-16, 6-15, 7-14, 8-13, 9-12, 10-11. At least in theory, it looks good and doesn't contradict the idea of the Swiss system; it simply makes three places automatic qualifiers, and another 14 enter the tiebreaker zone. In theory, this should maintain motivation both for the chasing group – they need to get into the tiebreakers – and at the very top, where there is a fight for the top places.

ICQ 423164784

In reply to Sanin

Vladimir_Ospa

11/14/2018 8:18 PM UTC

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There was a lot of money. Tant and Gunnar joined. A Necropolis hero with vampire units was running towards my computer...
Thank you for your time.

ISQ: 668828912

Vladimir_Ospa

Faction Башня / Tower

Start Hero Сайра / Cyra

Main Hero Сайра / Cyra

Победа / Def

RitoSux

Faction Цитадель / Stronghold

Start Hero Орис / Oris

Main Hero Изра / Isra

Map Template: Mini-Nostalgia
Game Length: 115 days
Game Date: 11/12/2018
Reported: 11/14/2018 8:18 PM

Discarded by organizer on 11/24/2018 2:51 PM

In reply to Sanin

Grando

11/14/2018 8:37 PM UTC

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Sanin

For the future, here's an idea: ...

The idea seems great at first glance. I'll add to it.
The number of places that qualify directly should be determined based on the number of participants, and these will be:
a) only those who won all their games
b) or also those who won all games except for one loss
This approach will also make pre-arranged draws in the final rounds pointless.

As an alternative, you could avoid fixing the number of places that guarantee direct qualification and instead specify that to qualify, a player must score >= the maximum possible points minus 3 (i.e., a maximum of one loss), and the remaining players will play one round of playoffs at the end for all the remaining places – this will partially solve the problem of many players losing motivation early on and completely solve the problem of pre-arranged draws.

https://www.twitch.tv/grando__

In reply to Sanin

MicroElf

11/15/2018 12:59 AM UTC

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Sanin

For the future, here's an idea: the same nine rounds of a Swiss tournament. Let's say we need to select 10 people. We make the top three places automatic qualifiers, and the places from 4 to 17 play tiebreaker matches in a BO3 format: 4-17, 5-16, 6-15, 7-14, 8-13, 9-12, 10-11. At least, in theory, it looks good and doesn't contradict the idea of a Swiss tournament; it just means that three places become automatic qualifiers, and another 14 go into the tiebreaker zone. In theory, this should maintain motivation both for the chasing group – they need to get into the tiebreakers – and at the very top, where there's a fight for the top places.

In my opinion, this system is an excellent option. In Hearthstone, they use a similar hybrid, and it works well in terms of both competitiveness and entertainment.

As for the issue of draws, we can certainly discuss the fairness of draws in Heroes in general (in my opinion: offering and agreeing to a draw is the players' right, and restricting or prohibiting it from an organizational point of view is structurally probably wrong), but the question of controlling the implementation of any form of rule prohibiting draws turns these discussions into pure theory. Creating a rule whose implementation cannot be controlled is inherently a bad option.

It is much more important that all players understand the rules and feel that they are initially on equal footing. To this end, I would write in the rules the procedure for offering and agreeing to/rejecting a draw. This is just a couple of lines, but it will prevent most people from feeling that a draw is some kind of trump card, etc. If you look at it abstractly, there is a slight flaw in the current rules in general.

ICQ 289320583

In reply to Vinceras

WAYD

11/15/2018 3:12 AM UTC

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Vinceras

Thank you for playing.

719865961 iq

In reply to Sanin

kamukag3e

11/15/2018 8:37 AM UTC

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Sanin

For the future, here's an idea: the same nine rounds of a Swiss-system tournament. Let's say we need to select 10 people. We make the top three places automatic qualifiers, and the places from 4 to 17 play tiebreaker matches in a BO3 format: 4-17, 5-16, 6-15, 7-14, 8-13, 9-12, 10-11. At least, in theory, it looks good and doesn't contradict the Swiss-system idea; it just means that three places become automatic qualifiers, and another 14 go into the tiebreaker zone. In theory, this should maintain motivation both for the chasing group – they need to get into the tiebreakers – and at the very top, where there's a fight for the top places.

The idea is great, but the overall meaning remains the same: instead of 9 contenders, we get 17, meaning that there will be a similar struggle for places 12 to 17, with the possibility of agreeing on a draw, only the skill level of the players will be slightly lower. This change in the rules will likely satisfy a larger number of "daddy gamers," but we shouldn't forget that the number of "daddy gamers" only increases year after year.

Added 56 minutes later
Any competition system where there are no elimination games, but there is the possibility of playing to a draw, allows players to agree on the result.

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to kamukag3e

Dima Surmay

11/15/2018 10:26 AM UTC

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kamukag3e

The idea is great, but the overall meaning remains the same: instead of 9 contenders, we get 17, meaning that the competition for positions 12 to 17 will be similar, with the possibility of agreeing on a draw, but the skill level of the players will be slightly lower. This change in the rules will likely satisfy a larger number of "daddies," but we shouldn't forget that the number of "daddies" increases year after year.

Added after 56 minutes
Any competition system where there are no elimination games, but there is the possibility of playing to a draw, allows players to agree on the result.

When BO3 games are played, and the winner advances to the final bracket, while the loser does not, there is no point in agreeing on a draw. The host will then flip a coin and determine the winner.