Discussions, post-mortems, analysis, inflated egos, and all that jazz. — Tournament Committee

Registered: 1/30/2017

Posts: 928

#78 11/1/2018 1:41 PM UTC

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It is obvious to me that those who play only HotA and not SoD are triggered. And instead of properly explaining their position, the insults start immediately:

socola

If possible, I would like to shield the forum from idiots. That would be super!

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to kamukag3e

Registered: 9/28/2008

Posts: 668

#79 11/1/2018 2:07 PM UTC

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kamukag3e

It's obvious to me that those who only play HotA and don't play SOD are upset. And instead of explaining their position properly, they immediately start with insults:

Now, point out specifically where you saw the insults.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Registered: 10/8/2011

Posts: 780

#80 11/1/2018 2:13 PM UTC

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The problem here is not the version of the game. It’s just frustrating that the necessary changes are being made in HotA, but there aren’t enough hands to do them for SoD. As a result, SoD turns out to be the original version, but with unpleasant bugs that greatly interfere with online play. HotA is an improved version, but again, with a bunch of unnecessary (in my opinion) things. I would really like a balanced version, but it seems this will not happen.

In reply to kamukag3e

Registered: 8/27/2016

Posts: 609

#81 11/1/2018 2:20 PM UTC

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kamukag3e

It is obvious to me that those who only play HotA and not SoD are triggered. And instead of normally explaining their position, the insults start immediately:

Sokol explained his position regarding Sir Davos very clearly. Not everyone can remain silent in response to such annoying pedantry.

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wygrał? wygrał. -Szopa666

In reply to socola

Registered: 1/30/2017

Posts: 928

#82 11/1/2018 2:23 PM UTC

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socola

Now, specifically point out where you saw the insults.

Simply calling someone an idiot without providing any evidence, and you think that's not an insult?

Added 1 minute ago

Benis_xDD

Socola clearly explained his position regarding Sir Davos. Not everyone can remain silent in response to such annoying nagging.

And Sir Davos explains his position very simply and clearly, without resorting to personal attacks. As many do here, including the respected Socola.

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to Vinceras

Registered: 3/23/2013

Posts: 1,827

#83 11/1/2018 2:23 PM UTC

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Vinceras

In the end, it turns out that SoD is the original version, but with unpleasant bugs that greatly interfere with online play. Hota is an improved version, but again, with a lot of unnecessary (in my opinion) things. I would really like a balanced version, but it seems that this will not happen.

For this to happen, you need a combination of a strong and reasonable Heroes player who is able to carefully listen to the best players and think about balance, and a programmer.
The tool for implementation exists in SoD - plugins for the HD mod. But there is no person who could do it.
So far, the only worthy attempt to use the tool in this direction was hw_rules by Wizard. And, by the way, it happened very unexpectedly for everyone at the time. The person suddenly took it upon himself and did it. And he did it well, and it immediately took root. It is not worth decisively putting a cross on the future.

https://www.twitch.tv/grando__

In reply to kamukag3e

Registered: 3/23/2013

Posts: 1,827

#84 11/1/2018 2:36 PM UTC

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kamukag3e

SirDavos explains his position very simply and clearly...

His position is indeed simple – he's a fan of Shades of Darkness and a hater of Heroes of Might and Magic VII.
But it's never clear why.

https://www.twitch.tv/grando__

In reply to Vinceras

Registered: 1/30/2017

Posts: 928

#85 11/1/2018 2:49 PM UTC

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Vinceras

The issue isn't the game version. It’s just frustrating that necessary changes are being made in HotA, but SoD is not getting them. As a result, SoD ends up being the original version, but with unpleasant bugs that significantly hinder online play. HotA is an improved version, but again, it has a lot of unnecessary things (in my opinion). I would like to see a truly balanced version, but it seems unlikely.

I agree with you; Dirty’s post best describes how many players feel about HotA and SoD, especially those players who play both versions of the game. Many of these players (except perhaps Dark and Herolvi) play both SoD and HotA, but recently most have been preferring HotA precisely because of the lack of “headaches” regarding road blocks and always having a great starting army, which is not the case in SoD. Or, as Jelen recently wrote about the Mirror-3 SoD tournament:

Jelen117

I am withdrawing from the tournament; playing SoD x3DM1 in 2019 is pointless anyway.

At the same time, many strategies that work in SoD do not work in HotA.
But for me, the big question is whether one-sided maps on 6LM, impenetrable blockades, or prison-like situations on the single road in the center on Jeb are considered bugs. All of this has been fixed in HotA, but should it be fixed in SoD? The goal: finding balance or something else? Heroes itself is inherently a random game, as shown by the recent discussion about changing the rules in SoD regarding the Grail. Do we want to achieve balance so that the game is won solely based on skill? Then let’s just play arenas.
After reading Jelen's recent thread /topic/14312/, I have come to the conclusion that balance is generally unattainable, no matter what the developers do. Players will always find something they don’t like, and there will always be suggestions to change existing game mechanics or something else.
We need to develop Heroes: introduce new strategies, hold new tournaments, attract new players.

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to kamukag3e

Registered: 8/25/2011

Posts: 3,825

#86 11/1/2018 4:09 PM UTC

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kamukag3e

<blockquote, ...balance is generally unattainable, no matter what the developers do...
Exactly. But maximum convenience and a pleasant gaming experience are very much attainable. And personally, that is why I am always on the side of the HotA crew (even when they unexpectedly implement ideas that clearly aren't from the "fathers").

http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt

In reply to Grando

Registered: 1/30/2017

Posts: 928

#87 11/1/2018 4:42 PM UTC

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Al Feyn

His position is really simple – a fan of Shades of Darkness, a hater of Heroes of Might and Magic. But it's never clear why.

Alfein, you're trying again to find complexity in simplicity. In my phrase, the words "simple" and "clear" simply reinforce each other and essentially explain the same thing. Simple means "not complex," and clear means "not complex" in terms of perception.
What specifically in SirDavos's posts and position is unclear to you?

艰难获胜 herolwy

In reply to kamukag3e

Registered: 3/16/2014

Posts: 1,343

#88 11/2/2018 6:48 AM UTC

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Some kind of lackluster and uninspired squabble, lacking any spark:smile04:

discord: LuckyF#3482
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Registered: 3/19/2015

Posts: 716

#89 11/2/2018 6:50 AM UTC

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we need more personal attacks!

icq 699279927 discord saneok#0028

In reply to saneok

Registered: 3/27/2017

Posts: 362

#90 11/2/2018 8:51 AM UTC

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Thanks to this thread, I installed HotA the other day.
I wanted to be part of the discussion, so I tested it out a bit.
I had never played it before, nor had I watched any streams of it. I didn't feel like getting into another version, as I don't have much time for games.
I remember that in the early 2000s, when everyone was waiting for the release of Heroes 4, they were expecting something similar, with bug fixes, new spells and artifacts, units, castles, and objects on familiar graphics.
But in 2002, what came out was a complete disappointment. Heroes 5 also didn't really resonate with people, and after that, we all nostalgically remembered Heroes 3: The Shadow of Death, which is what most people played, along with various mods that, unfortunately, disappeared as quickly as they appeared.
If HotA had been released as Heroes 4 back then, and if there hadn't been an HD mod, Heroes 3 would now be remembered in history books like Heroes 1 or 2.
But right now, we have two games that are developing in parallel. And while HotA is constantly being improved, the process in The Shadow of Death has unfortunately stalled.
If they could fix the generator in The Shadow of Death, it would eliminate a lot of rules and restrictions related to broken paths, roads, and capturing objects without defeating the guards, and it would breathe new life into the game. If that doesn't work out, the ranks of The Shadow of Death players will gradually dwindle, and in a couple of years, SOD-Nostalgia tournaments will be held.

In reply to korovka1987

Registered: 1/18/2016

Posts: 389

#91 11/2/2018 11:06 AM UTC

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korovka1987

They are constantly trying to improve Hota, but in SOD, unfortunately, this process has practically stalled.
If it were possible to fix the SOD generator, it would eliminate a lot of rules and restrictions related to awkward paths, roads, and capturing objects without breaking through defenses, and it would breathe new life into the game. If that doesn't work, the ranks of SOD players will gradually dwindle, and in a couple of years, SOD-Nostalgy tournaments will be held.

It's great that Hota is so actively gaining new followers, who are ready to permanently switch from the unfair and unreasonable world of the 3 heroes of SOD to the beautiful future that you dream of.

A lot of rule restrictions, is that just two?
1) Don't steal from under guards (except for gold and resources)
2) Don't pass through shifted guard paths (except for HL+U)

The first one can be remembered somehow, but the second one, which causes all the controversial situations, should be removed (except for GO).

Сейчас

Registered: 8/14/2011

Posts: 1,501

#92 11/2/2018 11:32 AM UTC

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The arguments between SoD and HotA fans are like two women. One had a great, handsome, and capable husband, but he left. The other has a husband, but he's not very handsome and does whatever he wants, even though he takes care of the household. The one whose husband left is envious on one hand, but on the other, she doesn't want the same thing for herself. The other understands that the first one is actually worse off, so she keeps quiet.

And so, they meet at the market, buying what they need, and another argument starts, which the others watch.

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