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Posts from Wind of Change

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#16
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It's clear that the idea wasn't well thought out. It's more likely that it was a spontaneous decision, and Wojciech was the first to react. (Just kidding!) I think what bothers everyone is the moment when one player gains control immediately, while others have to go through many restructuring phases. This is one of the factors that makes Heroes a game of chance to a large extent. And if even a test rule like the one proposed in the first post is introduced, after some time, people will start to get annoyed, and there will be complaints like, "He had more resources," or "My mines had two resource nodes, while his had three." Then, discussions will start about how many resource nodes can be taken, and so on. As for the mirrored map, it's been said enough times that it doesn't balance the game at all, especially in hotseat mode. So, everyone should calm down and play as it is. Otherwise, you can play chess, where white always goes first.
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#17
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Mirror templates do not fully balance the game (this is impossible in Heroes even with a mirror tavern), but they do it significantly better than other templates. And I didn't understand "especially in hot" at all. After all, SoD are Necropolians, which makes mirrors extremely skewed.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
In reply to Gomunguls
#18
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Gomunguls
It's clear that this idea wasn't well thought out. It seems like it just came to him in a rush, and Wojciech was the first to "burst" (I'm just kidding, of course).
I think everyone is annoyed by the fact that one player gets control immediately, while others have to go through many rebuilds. This is one of the reasons why Heroes is, to a large extent, a game of luck. And if we even test such a rule as proposed in the first post, after some time people will start to get annoyed, and there will be something like, "He had more resources," or "My mines had 2 piles, and his had 3." Then there will be discussions about how many resource piles can be taken, and so on. As for the mirror map, I'm tired of talking about how it doesn't balance the game at all, especially in HotA. So, everyone should calm down and just play as it is. Otherwise, you can play chess, and even there, white moves first.
Vitaly, what do you mean by the word "balances"? The mirror map provides almost identical starting opportunities, which are only spoiled by a few heroes that stand out significantly in the tavern. The map is very complex in terms of the number of actions, and it offers a lot of room for differences in understanding. As for the favorite argument of some - guessing or not guessing the direction... First, you usually don't go in one direction; second, they are chosen based on the maximum visual potential in terms of visual size, views, overviews, scouting, starting with stables, etc. Of course, sometimes a completely illogical direction can give some kind of advantage, but first, after the removal of control scrolls in HotA, this is still rare, and it's not often that this advantage is completely uncounterable. And second, Heroes is still a game of distance, and some random games can't be avoided on any map, the question is in the percentage of such events.
P.S. I also didn't understand the point about HotA in relation to the mirror map; specifically for this map, HotA is definitely much better than SoD. Because of the Necropolis, yes.
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#19
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Heroes of slowing, earth magic, and control.
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#20
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Jelen117
Kostya, did you read my post? I didn't even suggest something like that.
How frustrated must you be to suggest level 6 magic? :D :D :D

Heroes is a game where no matter how many changes you make, you can't avoid a situation where the balance is one-sided.
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#21
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If someone wakes me up in 100 years and asks what's being discussed on the forums right now...
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skype: goshanstop.ru
discord: puzzz0#3215
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#22
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The 6th level of magic should ideally be located in the basement, as the roof already has a small spire at the 5th level. Therefore, you need to dig, i.e., to build the 6th level of magic, you first need to dig a tunnel under the city (call Reddi).
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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#23
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=Lizard=
The 6th level of magic should ideally be located in the basement, as the roof already has a small spire at the 5th level. Therefore, digging is required, meaning that to build the 6th level of magic, you first need to dig a tunnel under the city (call Reddi).
And add to "Heroes of Might and Magic, and Shovels".

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYZ8Pk6yWouZ-0nQSdYXBlg
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In reply to Wicc
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#24
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Wicc
The idea of making it more difficult to obtain or use control abilities has a fundamental flaw: it increases the length of matches, and they are already not short.

Therefore, in HotA, the idea was more about adding new control spells to Fire and Water, and either not touching the existing ones at all or slightly weakening them (e.g., making them slightly more expensive in mana or slightly more expensive in moves, or reducing the range of the damage spell, or limiting the number of teleports per day, or something else). There was also the idea of giving wings a basic Fly ability instead of an expert one.

That is, control should be obtained in the same timeframe (or even faster), but the fact of having control should not lead to such a gap in pace with those who do not yet have control.
Yes!!!

And they unfairly attacked Wojciech. Let him be "hurt and offended," but the message itself is correct.
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
In reply to BISHOP
#26
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The problem clearly exists. Completely eliminating it, like many other issues in the game, is likely impossible. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to mitigate this problem. In other cases, we come up with rules to address the most significant imbalances. Here, as a possible solution, we could set a time limit (either through rules or by agreement) before which the control ability cannot be used. For HL+U, this would likely be something like 134.
Награда: Лучшему игроку сезона Осень 2009 за замок Конфлюкс
In reply to Gomunguls
#27
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Gomunguls
It's clear that this idea wasn't well thought out. It's more like it just came to him in a rush, and Wojciech was the first to crack.

I'd like to clarify – my opponents in the team tournament between countries might have been upset after I achieved full control at the end of the second week, but I always have good luck, so I can't be upset. I just realized after watching streams and playing two games that playing for early damage is a waste of time.
Dirty_Player
Heroes is a game where no matter how many changes you make, you can't avoid situations where the balance is heavily skewed.

I think the arguments about "imbalance will always exist" are the best. This should be compared to "let it be bad, because it's already so bad that it can't be changed."
No, since the release of Heroes, we've introduced a lot of additional innovations: HD mod, animation acceleration, guild restructuring, city auctions, random maps, good rules, and many other things. And we shouldn't stop there.

You know why Maretti won all the tournaments on HotA, but the best Heroes player – FTS – can't do the same? Here's the answer – the central limit theorem. What I want to say is that the current Heroes is more unbalanced than it was 5 years ago. This isn't entirely correct, but the point is that the level of play today is much higher, and yet there is still a factor that spoils this theorem – early control. And what top players 5 years ago couldn't do properly, even Polish newcomers who have been playing Heroes for 3 months can do now. The purpose of this topic is to start a discussion that will ultimately generate good ideas for limiting the importance of this factor in the Central Limit Theorem.

https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Центральная_предельная_теорема
In reply to Medium_HP
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#28
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Medium_HP
The problem clearly exists. It's unlikely that we can completely eliminate it, just like with many other issues in the game. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to mitigate the problem. In other cases, we come up with rules to address the most significant imbalances. As a possible solution here, we could establish a time limit (either through rules or by agreement) before which the "control" ability cannot be used. For HL+U, this could be something like 134.

I agree with Medium on this. Also, the whole idea that Jelen proposed should at least be tested in some form, rather than being immediately dismissed. We should be open to new perspectives and consider changes that could bring a certain balance to the game. Perhaps this change should be optional and tested for a while to see how it works, and then a decision can be made whether to introduce it as a permanent part of the game or not.
#29
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If we follow the CPT (Competitive Playtesting) guidelines, then to balance the situation, we need to: 1. Either nerf the overpowered element. 2. Or add several equally powerful elements to the game. This option is obviously the best, and it is the one that the HotA team is focusing on. It is also obvious that this option is very difficult to implement. And it is practically not applicable for SoD (because when implemented, we will no longer have SoD). The following options are much worse than the previous two (they don't really solve the problem at all): Make the conditions for obtaining the overpowered element more difficult, add some dependencies for the ability to use it, delay the time it can be obtained. That is, a nonsensical level 6 does not solve the problem. *** Adding equally powerful elements does not necessarily mean adding elements with similar functionality (for example, adding new control spells for fire and water that are different from Teleport, Slow, and Haste), although this is the easiest thing to do. Simply, the new element must provide an equivalent advantage. Moreover, the more different these equally powerful elements are in terms of functionality, the more diverse and interesting the game will be. Here's how I would solve the problem within the framework of "SoD": 1. I would nerf Teleport (here, both the mana cost and the number of uses can be increased and/or, possibly, add restrictions on the maximum number of teleports). Haste can also be further nerfed by increasing its mana cost. 2. I would make Teleport and Haste multi-school spells, like the Arrow spell. Similarly, the same can be done with Slow, but this would look too awkward from a design perspective. Of course, rearranging the spells by level would also be a good idea, but if even the HotA team categorically does not want to do this, then it is even more inappropriate for SoD. Who can suggest something else?
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#30
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Taking the best elements from World of Xeen and Heroes of Might and Magic, we would get the perfect game.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt