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In reply to AmberSoler
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#139
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AmberSoler;107475
In other words, your position looks like this:

"If, based on a detailed, step-by-step description of the battle provided by the player in his save file (before the battle), the reviewer cannot achieve the specified sequence of morale drops, the battle should be considered invalid."
Is that what you mean?

And how? - are we supposed to take his word for it? Let's conduct a poll - let's put it up for public consideration. Of course, your position is understandable - "not only will it be a pain to check the save, but also to select battles" - is that what you mean?
AmberSoler;107475
And how many times should the check be done to definitively state that the morale could not have dropped? Because that's what we're talking about. We are not evaluating the probabilities of morale dropping; we are discussing the mechanism for checking the save.

I'm not claiming that the morale drop should be checked in any particular way - yes, the question is about checking the save, but if the save includes the morale drop, what do you suggest?
AmberSoler;107475
[/U]If the verification method doesn't work even on one of the saves, then it is incorrect. And the number of units in the battle is irrelevant. The question is: can what has already happened always be repeated, and how many attempts are needed to guarantee that it was actually the case or not?

What does the phrase "verification method" mean?
It can be repeated, but after how many attempts...? - it's hard to answer.
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
In reply to Ley
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#140
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Ley;107482
What does the phrase "method of verification" mean?
It refers to the method, mechanism, or essence of the verification process... The meaning is the same.
Ley;107482

So, I'm not claiming that morale drops should be verified in any specific way – yes, the question is about verifying the save file, but if the save file includes morale drops, what do you suggest?

It's difficult to verify morale drops. That is, if the verifier gets the same result, that's great. If not, it doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened.

Of course, there are obvious points to pay attention to: the morale level of the troops (if it's neutral or negative, then there's no point in continuing the discussion), the presence of artifacts that increase/decrease morale, the use of spells (if mana is available), etc. This is complex, but theoretically verifiable.

However, when we have positive morale, the question of the drop is reduced to probability theory. For example, we have a long battle – the number of rounds is statistically significant. Then, we can assess whether the probability of the drop corresponds to what the theory says.

If it does, the issue can be closed in favor of the player because it is impossible to verify the drop/non-drop of morale in a specific round of the battle. If it doesn't correspond (significantly exceeds), then we need to think... But this is a very rare case, so it is not advisable to solve this problem at the moment.
Сначала было слово...
FizMiG v.2.0 *** Очередное обновление справочника! *** http://vk.com/fizmig

In reply to AmberSoler
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#141
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Kail, can I ask you about my save game? It’s not related to the Competitive mode, though. :smile33:
Пусть я изгой, но я велик своей душой.
Набор в клан "Рыцари апокалипсиса" - "Knights of Apocalypse"
Информация о нас здесь http://sacraments.narod.ru/Klan.html
In reply to AmberSoler
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#142
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AmberSoler;107486

It is difficult to verify a morale drop. That is, if the person verifying the result gets the same outcome, that's great. If not, it doesn't mean that it couldn't have happened.

That's what I was trying to say. As a result, I replay all my battles where morale dropped, relying on my own code of honor, so that there are no questions about verifying them at all.

P.S. And I still haven't heard the opinion of everyone: How do you all act when morale drops in battle???
:smile13: [ТУРНИР] "Гонка за Лидером" :smile13:
:smile28: [M] "Я и моя тень" - "I am and my shadow" :smile28:
:smile16: "Быстрая смерть" - "Fast Death" :smile16:
In reply to Тарнум
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#143
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Tarnum;107548
Kail, can I ask you about my save game, if it's not related to the Competitive discussion?:smile33:
All questions should be sent via private message, or after the Tournaments are over. ;)

Sincerely.

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
In reply to K0Lb@zzeR
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#144
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K0Lb@zzeR;107614

P.S. And I still haven't heard everyone's opinion: How do you act when morale drops in battle?

That's strange... What criteria should I use to answer your question? I think there are several reasons, namely different variations on this topic. Let me explain, for example, a battle with 10 troglodytes - personally, I don't think that if I get morale, I should win "fairly" by replaying the battle - did I force that bird to ignite? :D But when it comes to large-scale and difficult, significant battles, it's a different story...
But in general, if it's not prohibited, I think it's stupid to replay if I only won because of morale, although even if such cases happen, they are just isolated incidents.
What is not prohibited is allowed, and the question about the code of honor sounds strange here - after all, you are not deceiving anyone, so your conscience is clear :)
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
In reply to K0Lb@zzeR
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#145
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K0Lb@zzeR;107426
I have a question: What should I do when morale drops during a battle? As practice shows:
...
How should I act in such a situation??? For example, if a battle is won/lost with morale playing a role, I replay it, relying on my code of honor.
But how do others act in this case???
:) My code of honor tells me this: I don't need to replay battles offline just because morale dropped. And what if it drops in every single one of 100 replays? :) What's the point of Don Quixote's code of honor? I'm more likely to replay a battle specifically so that morale drops at the right moment. But as Ley says, battles where morale plays a decisive role are VERY rare. This is easily explained: such battles usually involve significant losses of your troops, which is highly undesirable in offline mode, unless it's the final battle.

Added 9 minutes ago
K0Lb@zzeR;107426
As practice shows:
1. Make a save before the battle.
2. Start the battle, a unit moves to a cell, morale drops, the unit makes an additional bonus move... and so on.
3. The battle ends.
4. Load the save, then repeat step 2, but morale doesn't trigger.
By performing the actions described above, we can conclude that morale (its triggering) depends on real time.
This is because your algorithm is missing one step, which should be between step 1 and 2 :) let's call it step X.

X. Load from the save you obtained.

AmberSoler says the same thing about save checks, that what the player claims doesn't work out. Maybe this is because the player saves before the battle and immediately starts and wins the battle with the help of morale. When loading from the obtained save, it's not a fact that the battle will go exactly as it did the first time. Because you need to do this:
1. save before the battle
2. load from this save
3. and only now play the battle

Now, without saving over this save, replay the battle repeatedly, loading from it and repeating all the sequences of moves in the battle. The chance of repeating events will be very high :)

Added 5 minutes ago
Kyle;107635
All questions in private messages, or after the tournament ends.
--------
The 10th Tournament starts on 08/01/2007 and will last until 08/29/2007 (inclusive, until 24:00 Moscow time). Saves will not be accepted after 08/29/2007. Only one final save is accepted from each player.
The results will be published no later than 09/10/2007.
--------
So, are you going to disappoint the players by announcing preliminary results? Or is there still a chance to announce the results immediately after the end, based on the received saves? After that, you can take your time checking the saves until 09/10/2007. And the players could then calmly discuss the tournament, thereby helping to check the saves.
In reply to Ley
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#146
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Ley;107720
As for large-scale and difficult, meaningful battles, that's a different matter...
But in general, if it's not forbidden, I think it's stupid to replay if I won only because of morale, although even if such cases do happen, they are just isolated instances.
What is not forbidden is allowed, and the question about the code of honor sounds strange here - after all, you are not deceiving anyone, which means your conscience is clear :)
You are right, you are not deceiving anyone.
You've convinced me, so we will learn to use morale in the official games.
:smile13: [ТУРНИР] "Гонка за Лидером" :smile13:
:smile28: [M] "Я и моя тень" - "I am and my shadow" :smile28:
:smile16: "Быстрая смерть" - "Fast Death" :smile16:
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#147
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Indeed, Kyle, will the preliminary results be posted? It would be interesting to see how our "grandmasters" performed on your map. Iron is right: seeing the preliminary results will naturally lead to discussions about the tournament itself. The difference may not be significant, but it will add some interest, and the question of intrigue has already been prolonged. Sincerely.
"Единственное, что можно сказать с уверенностью об удаче - она изменит..."
In reply to K0Lb@zzeR
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#149
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K0Lb@zzeR;107614
That's exactly what I was saying. As a result, I replay all my "morally challenging" battles, relying on my own code of honor, so that there are no questions about their verification.

P.S. And I still haven't heard everyone's opinion: How do you act when morale drops in battle???
I, relying on the code of a warrior, replay battles where I lost many units, making sure that morale drops. Otherwise, what's the point of having a skill like Leadership and objects on the map that raise morale?
TO Kolbazzer: Lesha, you won't achieve much with your code. Your post only shows me that you want to show everyone how honest you are.;)
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#153
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But weren't the preliminary results unavailable in the Blitz Tournament? :smile07:

Why do you think it will be different here? :confused:

Кто состоянием своим доволен, тому жить весело. (с)Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров
In reply to Kyle
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#154
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Kyle;108250
Weren't preliminary results unavailable in the Blitz Tournament? :smile07:
Why do you think it will be different here? :confused:
Well, according to point 10 of the rules, we know by what date the official final results will be published. I would also like to know by what date the preliminary results will be published? I couldn't find this in the rules :(
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#155
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If it’s not too late, please add me to the list as well .
In reply to kj1313
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#156
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Hello. I sent the final save file. I replayed it from the beginning. This time, there were no problems with the week of the troglodytes. :) ------------------------- P.S. Best regards, maximula
Mersy is a sign of weakness.
Despair is a sign of weakness.
Танцуешь с дьяволом - танцуй до конца.
Неподъемных камней нету - есть неподъемные люди.
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#157
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IronAxe;108312
Malek guessed wrong :) For me, the lucky number turned out to be three times :) And there's still more than a week left until the 31st to think it over. Is it worth working on a fourth version to try to shorten it by another day, or should I play the tournament on the third game for experience - it's been tough there lately :)

Exactly. Since they made the map more difficult in the third game, you just think whether to play or raise your hands right away:o
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