Posts from "Operation Capture"

Well, no big deal... :) That's what tournaments on HW are for – to settle things once and for all and avoid revisiting this topic... For example, if you ever decide to play on HP, these rules will be understood without explanation... :) And they haven't caused any complaints for a long time because they are quite justified and accepted by all players... You need to learn everything...

Regarding the rankings: There's a file posted where you can find the rankings for all tournaments individually, as well as the overall ranking. I just didn't have the energy to post the ranking for this specific tournament in this thread. But it's in the file. So, feel free to check it out. Rankings will be maintained for all tournaments, including unofficial ones, if enough participants are involved.

K0Lb@zzeR, do you know the meaning of the word "vandalism"? Vandalism is the destruction of cultural values. So, what do cultural values and tournament rules have to do with each other?

K0Lb@zzeR, do you know the meaning of the word "vandalism"? Vandalism is the destruction of cultural values. So, what do cultural values and tournament rules have to do with it?

He's not talking about vandalism in the tournament rules, but about fair play on the map itself, although personally, I would call it a trick, a trick by the map author.

Could you please tell me how to complete this map in 10-11 days? I've tried for at least 26 days. Did you redesign the map for yourself, or what?

Please tell me how to complete this map in 10-11 days? I've tried for at least 26 days. Did you redesign the map for yourself, or how?

The descriptions of the walkthroughs are on the previous pages. Read them, and you'll understand.

Sorry for the delay, the description is ready, even if it's just this :)
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"Six relics, six caches, six sacred monsters. One must possess six parts of the most powerful artifact to unite them as one, and then the path to another world shall open"—this was the kind of tale Jelu heard from his grandfather during his childhood.
Twenty years have passed since then. The young man has already managed to enter officer service under the great King Irrolan. He also became a vassal of the monarch, receiving elven lands under his rule. And so one fine day, during routine exercises in the western part of his holdings, Jelu stumbled upon a seer's hut. From the elder, he learned that old artifacts were located on the very land granted to the young elf. But only an experienced ranger is capable of finding them, let alone possessing them.
With his small detachment, one could forget even thinking about achieving such a great goal, so the descendant of the Vor Elves decided first to build himself an army, and only then begin his search.

D1:
Take 2 gold, buy elves (+7, total 12 people), upgrade.
Visit oasis, attack ghosts diagonally (no losses), join elves (+5, total 17), visit oasis.
Attack zombies (16,1; no losses – on the second round use the bottom sniper to approach the zombies along the bottom line), take ore, capture mine, go down.

D2:
Attack skeletons (no losses), visit magic school (+1 spell power), take chest (+1000), go to the manor in the swamp, picking up gold along the way.

D3:
Visit mercenary camp (+1 attack), buy elves (+7, total 24), upgrade them, back to the road.

Not a bad reinforcement; after a three-day march, Jelu's army grew approximately fivefold and already numbered twenty-four brave fellows.

D4:
Attack liches (7,7,7,3; losses 2 snipers – we gamble on morale triggering), take wood, further west. Loses two snipers, total remaining 22.
Build tavern, buy Fyuir (someone with cash appears after him, Caitlin for example), collect wood, capture sawmill, buy elves (7 units), go to the road.

And here are the first losses. But war is impossible without them. On the other hand, our hero found his first friends.

D5:
Fyuir takes the money and rushes north along the road.
Jelu picks up pebbles, meets a pegasus, and runs straight to the tavern. I buy Ryland; after him, Ain appears (money plus literacy).
I exchange the pegasus for 6 centaurs and Jelu runs off to kill ghosts (losses 3 centaurs).
I buy in the outer tavern – Ain; with Ryland I run to Jelu and leave only a pegasus for him at the end of the day. Ain sweeps up sulfur and gold and heads to capture the sawmill.

D6:
Ain does his business in the swamp.
I buy Caitlin, who goes to collect crystals.
Fyuir passes elves and fairies (meat, albeit thin) to Ryland and runs up the map.
Ryland again swaps troops with Jelu, and the latter sets off for a fight with dragons.
First battle (29S-1C-1F-1C-1C) losses 1 centaur. At the end of the day, Jelu is left with a pegasus again. Roland finishes at Dragon Cliff.

D7:
Kind people shake out 10000 units, after which there is an opportunity to buy three dragons.
Jelu gets a dragon, a fairy, two centaurs and snipers. Takes Dragon Cliff (29S-1C-1F-1C-1D), the fairy dies. Now we have two draconies and the last cliff is defeated without losses. Jelu gets a pegasus and moves west. Ryland settles in the eastern cliff.
Caitlin collects crystals, Fyuir runs north to take resources, Ain heads toward the city to study magic.

Now Jelu is ready for the confrontation with ancient monsters... Now he doesn't have those five soldiers from the beginning of the week, but a whole army plus three dragons, and tomorrow there is an opportunity to hire three more. Furthermore, scouts reported that in Jelu's home city, several brave guys are longing for adventure.

D8:
Fyuir collects resources and stops at the manor, prepared to buy elves.
Ryland buys up all dragons (now 6) and gives all goods to Jelu, keeping a fairy for himself.
Jelu establishes battle order (29S-1C-1C-1C-1C-1C-6D), not without Ain's help (the rest is with her). And he prepares to tear into the minotaurs (not those guarding the sandals, of course). Expert Earth Magic is very much needed. Ain helps her general learn Blindness. Minotaurs kill two centaurs. After the battle, Jelu returns to the road and again spends the night with a pegasus (what's going on there?...).
Caitlin returns to the city and enters the outer manor.
The Magic Guild is erected in the city.

D9:
Fyuir is in position. Ryland picks up resources in the clover field.
Jelu visits the idol and takes the scholar.
Ain runs to Dragon's Nest (what a name!) to learn slow and other things.
Caitlin buys elves, takes them to the castle and takes her position.

D10:
Ryland continues clearing the territory. Fyuir continues to wait.
A market is built in the city, where unnecessary resources are exchanged for money. With which, in turn, elves are bought, who are then upgraded to snipers. And Jelu is ready for battle again (five units of mana are no obstacle). Ain taught the guy the necessary magic and passed on the required units.
BATTLE against GIANTS.
Formation 53S-1C-1C-1C-1C-1C-6D. The enemy has 6G-6G-5T-5G, from which it is clear that the third stack is very inconvenient!
We slow down the foes. We wait for the sniper's morale to trigger and hit the opponent's strong link twice. From there, it's a matter of technique; slowed giants are methodically exterminated. Losses 1 centaur and 2 snipers. After the battle, Jelu goes to sleep in the city, taking a friend with him.
Ain runs east. Caitlin takes the Shield, gives it to Jelu and follows the incorporeal one.

As it turned out, the first relic was right under their noses, and no one even knew about such a state of affairs.

D11:
Having noticeably toughened up overnight (the pegasus has nothing to do with it), Jelu attacks the Champions, whom defeating is not the hardest task. This time we use fairies instead of centaurs.
Fyuir buys elves and heads to the next manor.
Ryland continues clearing the territory.
Caitlin and Ain escort the commander. Jelu spends the night not alone again.

D12:
Fyuir takes more elves and heads into the sands. Ryland waits.
Jelu visits the fountain and attacks the Minotaurs – we lose two centaurs, all thanks to slow and a horde of snipers. Return to the fountain. Attack griffins.
Ain picks up Sandals, pebbles and visits the pond, passes the artifact and combat units to the leader. He, in turn, destroys swordsmen, visits the stable and runs toward the Dragons. Ryland follows him. Caitlin runs north.

The second artifact turned out to be even harder to obtain than the previous one. Too many minotaurs guarded their treasure. But, in any case, the losses were not so irreparable.

D13:
Ryland gives the army to Jelu, who wipes out the Dragons (standard formation, losses 4 centaurs). Ryland picks up everything after Jelu. Our hero attacks manticores guarding the fort on the hill, brings Ain close and takes all slow-movers from the captain.
Fyuir returns to the manor, Caitlin is waiting.

D14:
Ryland stands in the middle refugee camp (tomorrow an Archangel will be born here, and eight flies in the upper one).
Jelu runs to the Archangels and stops nearby. Ain upgrades the army and takes a position so that Ryland can deliver the Archangel to her tomorrow; Caitlin and Fyuir wait.
In the city I buy Pyra, who runs to the gathering place.

D15:
Ryland brings the Arch and Flies to Ain, keeping two buzzers for himself.
Ain brings everyone to Jelu, gives necessary units (51S-1C-1C-1C-1C-1A-1D), waits.
Jelu wipes out the Archangels losing only a centaur. Turns around and runs at vampires.
Fyuir buys another 7 elves and runs to Jelu. Caitlin gets a fly and flies to the swamp toward the Knight. Pyra moves toward friends. Ain takes the Helmet.
Fyuir stays overnight with a pegasus.

D16:
Ain brings the artifact to Pyra. Pyra runs to Jelu, who wipes out Spectral dragons. Then he puts snipers in the left slot, flies in the right and runs at the Knight, destroys them and stops. Caitlin takes artifacts from Jelu, takes the Necklace, turns around and carries everything back to the road. Ryland takes Magical Armor and gives it to Pyra; Caitlin also gives her goods to Pyra, who in turn gives Alliance to Fyuir.
Fyuir opens the gates, exchanges Angel Alliance for 4000 Green Dragons, jumps into the portal and captures Corpse-land.

Then there were other difficult battles for possession of the great relic, and our brave youth lost his warriors, and Jelu's army suffered many hardships during the journey. But everything ended well, with only one exception: a certain Fyuir took responsibility for the loss of the aforementioned treasure. He simply exchanged it for four thousand dragons from some merchant, he no longer remembers who. On the other hand, Jelu grew into an elite general, which is still talked about across the continent.

VICTORY!!!
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Thank you all for your attention, sincerely, Kamikaze!!!

I think this walkthrough would definitely be a leader if the game was based on experience points instead of time... The number of enemies destroyed per unit of time is simply incredible! And with this setup, the entire map could be cleared in a maximum of 18 days! :) Bravo!

Thank you, esteemed AmberSoler; I consider hearing praise from you to be an achievement ;)

When will the number of Grail points awarded for this tournament be announced?

I think this Walkthrough would definitely be the leader if the game were based on experience rather than time... The number of enemies destroyed per unit of time is simply off the charts! And with such a setup, you could fully clear the map in 18 days maximum! :) Bravo!

Usually I don't read such long descriptions, but your Kamikaze is actually quite good; I read it, thought about it, understood it and, dare I say, learned something. In my opinion, the description has everything to make one want to read it — a plot, a goal, and most importantly, meaning and a clear description that allows one to repeat the Walkthrough without much effort.
Yes, it's a pity that the "capture" was for time rather than experience — you would have been at the top ;)
Of course, I join AmberSoler's words; everything is beautifully laid out and excellently played, congratulations!

Respectfully, Ley.

P.S. did you wait for morale, meaning you actually timed the battle so that the snipers would be given morale?

As long as a tactic can be justified, it is worth using... I agree with you on this... The only question is whether the rating ideologues will become victims of their own illusions... :) Otherwise, no problems, as long as everyone is speaking the same language... :)

I missed a little skirmish here :) Basically, as I understand it, the results of some members of one clan raised slight suspicions due to the similarity of their Walkthroughs in terms of the number of days. My opinion on this is—the main thing is that there are no fake saves; this can be verified, and it is the organizer's duty if they volunteered to run the tournament. If the Walkthroughs are DIFFERENT, but EVEN IF the idea of the Walkthrough is identical, then there is no violation. AmberSoler is right that there is no way to prove or disprove out-of-game discussions of Walkthroughs between these players, and therefore the presumption of innocence applies in this case. In other words, the Walkthroughs of these players SHOULD be considered CLEAN, and each of them SHOULD be awarded a rating in accordance with the existing rating calculation rules. The clan rating as well—that goes without saying.

Added after 23 minutes

what do you mean you aren't raising the issue in principle??? you are clearly hinting at something... You are

They are hinting that POSSIBLY the Walkthrough for this tournament was developed jointly by players of your clan through out-of-game communication, which is forbidden by the rules. However, they immediately admit that even if that is the case, no one can prove a damn thing :) provided that each of your players performed the Walkthrough ITSELF independently after the discussion; in other words, there was no forging of saves.
And here I have a question for the organizers—why have such a prohibition that CANNOT be verified? I would cancel this prohibition. Let everyone decide for themselves whether it is worth revealing the secrets of their Walkthrough to anyone before the end of the tournament. Personally, I advise against revealing them even to the organizers BEFORE THE ANNOUNCEMENT OF PRELIMINARY RESULTS to avoid any misunderstandings.

It's precisely not clear to me! you want to accuse us of something... the question is—of what?? I'm not escalating, you're the one escalating... have we known each other for only one day???... well, don't say that—I actually know very little about you... And why is the question addressed to them—the accountants??.. I wonder what my reaction suggests?? I

Well, basically, AmberSoler assumes that if there was indeed a discussion among you during the tournament, the accountants calculating the rating will get distorted player rating results. As one of the accountants, I am on your side. Personally, I don't give a damn whether you discussed the Walkthrough or not. The main thing is that there is no forging of saves. It's up to each individual to choose their own rating strategy. Some value their personal rating, so they might not fully reveal their Walkthrough to the clan. Someone advocates for the clan rating and doesn't care about their personal one.
PS. And I just found it funny how you guys were talking in hints :)

Added after 2 hours 17 minutes

He is not talking about vandalism in the tournament rules, but about the honor of play on the map itself, although personally I would call it—cunning, the cunning of the map author :)

:) What "honor of play" are you talking about when playing in OFF? A player is simply obliged to use what is not forbidden by the rules. After all, he doesn't know how other OFF players will behave. And if someone considers it unworthy of their honor to occupy an unguarded enemy computer Fortress in Off? :) If an artifact can be snatched from under a monster and it is clearly not forbidden in the tournament—then it must be done if you consider it the most successful solution for your Walkthrough. If the map author doesn't want you to take the artifact without defeating the monster, he hides the artifact behind the monster's backside and doesn't allow access to it. If he places the artifact right in front of the monster's face and allows the possibility to approach and take the artifact without a fight—that is the author's design :) In HoMM 4, one can be clever by trying to steal something by dropping a hero's grave at the unit's feet; however, this only works if using the space bar is allowed. Sometimes they snatch an artifact from under a monster, and if the monster attacks, they flee with the hero into the Fortress, taking the artifact with them. Fleeing is allowed, right? Or does "honor" not permit that either??

What kind of fair play are you talking about when playing in OFF mode? If something isn't prohibited by the rules, a player is simply obligated to use it. After all, they don't know how other players in OFF mode will behave. And if someone considers it beneath their dignity to occupy an unguarded enemy Fortress in OFF mode? :) If an artifact can be stolen from under a monster, and this is clearly not prohibited in the tournament, then it must be done if you consider it the best solution for your playthrough. If the map author doesn't want you to steal the artifact without defeating the monster, they hide the artifact behind the monster and don't allow you to approach it. If they place the artifact in front of the monster and allow you to approach and take it without a fight, that's the author's intention. :)

I didn't write about fair play just like that. Kolbazer is a rare case – a rare person; I remember he refused to send a save file in the first stage of Blitz, saying that it would be UNFAIR to all participants. How he feels about it is his business, and there's no point in discussing it; I just explained what his words meant, what questions could you possibly have for me?
And when I wrote about cunning, I meant that if an artifact isn't immediately visible on the map, but it can be taken without obstacles, then that's the author's intention, and that's it. :)

I didn't just write about honor for no reason. Kolbazer is a rare case—a rare person; I recall him refusing to send a save during the first stage of the Blitz, saying that it would be UNFAIR to all participants. How you feel about that is up to you and not worth discussing; I simply explained what his words meant, so what questions could there possibly be for me?
Well, one should treat this with understanding, but still try to explain how one should behave in OFF. I've already tried several times to explain that On and Off are very different and perhaps codes of honor are interpreted differently in each.

And regarding the trickiness, I wrote it meaning—if an artifact isn't immediately visible on the map, showing that it can be taken without obstacles—then that is the author's design and that's it, period. :)

No problem. I actually agree with you :) and have no complaints whatsoever :)

I didn't just write about honor for no reason. Kolbazer is a rare case – a rare person; I remember he refused to send a save file in the first stage of the Blitz, saying that it would be UNFAIR to all participants; how he feels about it is up to him, and there's no point in discussing it; I just explained what his words meant, what questions could be directed at me?

It's nice to hear such words addressed to me. Now I understand what the matter is: there are generally accepted rules for conducting tournaments, which everyone adheres to... but each person also has a "code of honor" that they adhere to. So, I realized one thing: as long as I don't violate my "code of honor," I won't achieve good results in offline tournaments. And it also takes a lot of patience and time to participate in these tournaments; I simply don't have enough time and patience to, for example, replay the same map and improve my result. Playing once and adhering to my "code of honor" doesn't lead to good results.