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In reply to Wicc
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#7605
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Regarding the timer, Al Fein is certainly too subjective, and Lutz is quite slow, but 16-8-1 is indeed a short timer for X3DM1, not to mention the even more resource-intensive Diamond, where the game often ends in the middle of the second week, and battles in the middle of the first week can be similar to the second week on X3DM1. To clarify, or perhaps remind some, I'll explain how the chess timer works. At the beginning, you try hard to make moves quickly to accumulate a certain increased limit for difficult moves in the game. In "Elite," this is achieved better due to hundreds (thousands) of moves practiced according to templates. In principle, this also saves time later, but even for those who play constantly, there are often too many complex choices with a multitude of possible developments, where you can't just play on autopilot. So, on MT Diamond, the stage where you accumulate the timer is practically non-existent; you immediately spend it because there are simply too many resources and actions. On X3DM1, things are a little more lenient. I consider something like 18-8.15-1.30 for X3DM1 and 21-8.30-1.30 for Diamond to be acceptable, with particular attention paid to the time for battles, as there are many of them at the beginning, and this is a key moment.
In reply to Dirty_Player
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#7606
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Dirty_Player
I sometimes ask myself the same question when reading your очередный provocative post :D
You're hurting my feelings, boss, I usually just have fun with it, with a bit of "ololoshka." Although I admit that from the outside, it might sometimes look different...
In reply to HellLighT
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#7607
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HellLighT
At first, you strenuously try to move faster in order to reach a certain increased limit for heavy moves in the game
Yeeeess ... this is exactly the idea I've been trying to convey to players for years. Essentially, Blitz Jebus Cross was originally conceived as training for this very "strenuously trying to move faster." So that players, having gained experience in blitz play, realize how much time they waste on simple actions under a normal timer.

I myself occasionally try to watch Al Fein's streams, and I can't last more than 10 minutes — watching him spend 10-20 seconds deciding whether to take a pile to the right or below is just dreadfully tedious. And then he complains that +30 seconds isn't enough for him.

Honestly, it's easier to just take a pile diagonally, and use the saved time later for more important decisions.
In reply to HellLighT
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#7608
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HellLighT
I think something like 18-8.15-1.30 for x3dm1 and 21-8.30-1.30 for Diamond would be acceptable. I will pay special attention to the time for battles, as there are many of them at the beginning, and this is a key moment.
No, do you really think that the difference between 8:00 and 8:15 is significant enough to start a forum discussion about it?

In my opinion, even 8:30 doesn't differ much; the difference will be noticeable around 9:00.

I understand your point about the battles, and I might even agree...
In reply to Wicc
#7609
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Wicc
I sometimes try to watch Al Fein's streams, but I can't stand it for more than 10 minutes – watching him spend 10-20 seconds deciding whether to take a group on the right or below is very boring. And then he complains that he doesn't have +30 seconds.
Don't confuse black and white. I'm not complaining about what you wrote.
Even in this thread above, there's a message from Benis about our game on Mirror mode, where he writes that I was playing, sacrificing quality for the sake of the timer. So, work is being done. I don't like it when the timer is hopeless (in terms of quality), and I don't hide it. When there's a chance, I try to practice. I understand how slow I can be, and I don't use it as an argument anywhere.
That's why I refer to the opinions of really top players. Among them, Cobra, Lucky, de Luxe, and Hell have already expressed their views in favor of increasing the timer on Mirror maps (relative to 16-8-1) in this thread.

And most importantly, I wrote in my previous post.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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#7610
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the difference between 8 and 8.15 is 3.5 minutes on the timer over 2 weeks, and very often they can change the outcome of the game in the other direction. You are trying too hard to achieve a reduction in the timer by simply cutting it down; it would be better if you used the same persistence to make your team work on this technically.
In reply to HellLighT
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#7611
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HellLighT
it would be better if you used the same persistence to make your crew work on this from a technical standpoint.
Work in this direction is also underway.
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#7613
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HellLighT
Regarding the timer, Al Fine is certainly too subjective; Lutzki is quite slow, but 16-8-1 is indeed a short timer for X3DM1, not to mention the even more resource-intensive Diamond, where the game often ends in the middle of the second week, and battles in the middle of the first week can be similar to the second week in X3DM1. To clarify, or perhaps remind some, I'll explain how the chess timer works. At the beginning, you try to make moves quickly to accumulate a certain increased limit for complex moves in the game. "Elite" players do this better because they have hundreds (thousands) of pre-rehearsed moves based on templates. This also saves time later, but even those who play constantly sometimes face too many complex choices with many possible developments, where you can't just play on autopilot. So, on MT_Diamond, the stage where you accumulate the timer is practically non-existent; you immediately spend it because there are plenty of resources and actions. In X3DM1, things are a little more lenient. I think something like 18-8.15-1.30 for X3DM1 and 21-8.30-1.30 would be acceptable for Diamond, with particular attention paid to the time for battles, as there are many of them at the beginning, and this is a key moment.

If even a super-fast player says this, what can be said about the others? - The others simply won't be able to handle these templates with such a short timer and won't enjoy participating in the tournament.


#7614
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It's never too late to burn out and dream. :D

I'll reiterate that the 16-8 timer in HotA with Overkill for mirror matches should be labeled as RAPID / FAST, or whatever you want to call it, but it should be labeled as ACCELERATED, not a normal TIMER.

Similarly, as the Blitz-Jebus tournament is not simply called Jebus, but specifically BLITZ, this tournament should not be simply called Mirrors, but "FAST" Mirrors.
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
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#7617
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The tournament should be named after McDonald's.


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#7618
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Well, I seem to be quite fast, but I think 16+8+1 is a decent time. When I play at home, even with these settings, I finish the first map in about 40+ minutes on x3dm1.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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#7619
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Al Feyn
Vic, just write one counter-argument regarding the tournament name.
Why are you so stubborn if everyone is reasonably arguing that the timer you're pushing isn't very good?
I could understand if you had arguments, but you don't.

Are you really choosing the path of simply doing something badly and hoping, like an ostrich burying its head in the sand, that everything will somehow work out on its own?
Please calm down. I perceive posts on this topic in the tournament thread as political pressure.

I have stated my arguments, and there is not much more to add. If they don't suit you, then they don't.

I will not change the tournament name because "rapid" in the Heroes terminology means 12+6+1. If I ever decide to hold a tournament on mirror maps with such a timer, then the name will definitely include "rapid".
#7620
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Vik, just give one counter-argument regarding the tournament name.
Why are you so stubborn when people from different sides are reasonably arguing that the timer you're pushing isn't very good?
It would be understandable if you had arguments, but you don't.

It's clear that the problem might not be with the tournament name, but perhaps with the fact that, despite it being stated clearly that this timer is accelerated, you still consider it normal. Either way, you should have some arguments – either why you think you have the right to decide which timer is normal (without even playing mirror matches yourself), or why you don't want to adjust the tournament name if you're consciously pushing for an accelerated timer.
Are you really choosing the path of simply doing something badly in silence and hoping, like an ostrich burying its head in the sand, that everything will somehow work out on its own?

ps Move it to the Tribunal yourself if you think it's necessary... I still don't understand why discussions directly related to this tournament are moved to the Tribunal, and I haven't heard any explanation as to why this is done... especially since, as a result of the discussions, the rules have already been changed for the better at least once.

Added 7 minutes later
Are you remembering the arguments correctly?
You just think it's a fast timer, but if you try playing, you'll understand that it's normal? Or am I missing something?
If that's the case, then it's clear that it's impossible to reason with you.
We'll learn to play quickly and efficiently like Lizard. Reddit will help us if needed. :)
https://www.twitch.tv/grando__
In reply to Grando
#7621
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Al Feyn
Vik, at least give one counter-argument regarding the tournament name.
Why are you so stubborn if, from different sides, you are being presented with reasoned arguments that the timer you are pushing isn't very good?
It would be understandable if you had arguments, but you don't.

It's clear that the problem might not be with the tournament name, but perhaps with the fact that, despite it being stated clearly that this timer is accelerated, you still consider it normal. Either way, you should have some arguments - either why you think you have the right to decide which timer is normal (without even playing mirror matches yourself), or why you don't want to adjust the tournament name if you are consciously pushing for an accelerated timer.
Are you really choosing the path of simply doing something badly in silence and hoping, like an ostrich burying its head in the sand, that everything will somehow work out on its own?

ps Move it to the "Tribuna" yourself if you think it's necessary... I still don't understand why discussions that are directly related to this tournament are moved to the "Tribuna," and I haven't heard any explanation as to why this is done... especially since, as a result of the discussions, the regulations have already been changed for the better at least once.

Added 7 minutes later
Are you remembering the arguments correctly?
You just think it's a fast timer, but if you try playing, you'll understand that it's okay? Or am I missing something?
If that's the case, then it's clear that it's impossible to reason with you.
We'll learn to play quickly and efficiently from Lizard. Reddit will help us if needed. :)
Vik is apparently conducting an experiment; he's the organizer and decides on the conditions under which the tournament will be held. If something doesn't suit you, you can just not sign up, or sign up, get upset, and then write that the timer is too short. The tournament is for fun anyway, and whether it's called "fast" or something else, the name doesn't affect the content