Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments. — Tournament Committee

Dirty_Player

9 years ago

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=Lizard=

There is a way to counter these "tricks." Introduce a rule for tournament games: only the beginning of a turn can be loaded, not an autosave.

In this case, other "tricks" will appear.

Regarding replays. There doesn't seem to be anything wrong with using them; it seems that if a lot of time has passed, why not watch them? But there is one point. One player will watch replays and remember during bonus time, while another will do the same on their own turn. In a time crunch, this can be critical. Therefore, let everyone be on equal footing.

As for tracking, there are many things in Heroes that cannot be tracked, but everything secret will eventually become apparent, and if a player is willing to go for such a minor violation, let it remain on their conscience, but if it is discovered somehow, let them not be offended later.

HellLighT

9 years ago

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First, this needs to be specified in the rules; currently, even the well-known rule of fair play, in my opinion, doesn't sufficiently restrict viewing during loading, although it's obvious to anyone that this is wrong.

Sevensan

9 years ago

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Well, I'll say it again – Lizardman is right. If we're talking about Tournaments, then mandatory loading at the start of the turn and continuing from there is essential. However, a person still needs to remember everything, and this can only be done at the end of the turn. So, it turns out that they are in equal conditions. One remembers the turn and what he wanted to do next – that is, he gets 8 bonus minutes to plan his turn from the current position! That is, after the opponent's turn. The second player gets the opportunity to view the map and plan his next turn without knowing how the opponent will move. This is a rather dubious advantage. Moreover, he spends mana on viewing the turn, which can be critical in a number of scenarios, like Jebus, so it's not a free action. Both players get their advantage. If you don't want them to use the viewing option, then don't give the person the ability to remember their plan for the game. Wouldn't that be the same? Let them start moving immediately. But that's nonsense and stupidity. I don't see any violation of the rules in this, not even close. And, of course, if there was a save at the end of the turn, I'll load the save, and if I have time left for my turn – before I pass it – I will do whatever I want. I can dismiss all 8 heroes and rebuild in all cities – I haven't passed the turn yet, and I still have time on the timer. So.

In reply to Sevensan

Dirty_Player

9 years ago

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Sevensan

And of course, if there was a save at the end of the turn, I'll load the save, and if I have time left in my turn – before I pass it – I'll play as I please. I can even fire all 8 heroes and rebuild in all the cities – I haven't passed the turn yet, and I still have time on the timer. So.

If you load a save made at the end of the turn manually (not an autosave), play and remember to account for your own time (not the bonus 10 minutes that HD gives). But I guess you'll probably ask to load the save again? In general, if you told your opponent that you saved at the end of the turn, but then continued to play, that's not fair play, to put it mildly. And if you passed the turn, and then a save was loaded that was saved after the turn was passed, then I'm sorry – the turn is done. I thought this should be obvious to everyone, but it turns out it isn't...

Jubi-Juby

9 years ago

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Guys, maybe someone already mentioned this above, but I'll still point out how I always saved tournament games. I always saved manually at the beginning of my turn. But, in order to remember the details of the upcoming turn, I first load the opponent's autosave. You both recall the turn, the opponent can build something, etc., but this won't affect the game, as then I load my manual save, and the game resumes. Something like that...

KobRa_RR

9 years ago

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If a turn has been made, the turn must be passed! No saving "at the end of the turn!":smile48:

Added 1 minute ago

Jubi-Juby

Guys, maybe this has already been mentioned by someone above, but I'll still note how I always saved tournament games. I always saved at the beginning of my own turn manually. But, in order to remember the details of the upcoming turn, I first load the opponent's autosave. You both remember the turn, the opponent can build something, etc., but this will not affect the course of the game, as then my manual save is loaded, and the game resumes. Something like that...

This is the correct approach.

In reply to KobRa_RR

Dirty_Player

9 years ago

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Guys, those who suggest saving at the beginning of each turn, are you really that naive, or are you just pretending? :D I can immediately name a bunch of manipulations that can be performed with this. Do I really need to spell it out? Or will you think about it and figure it out yourselves? :rolleyes:

Wyndoc

9 years ago

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Apparently, the only way to prove, even a little, that "you're not a complete noob" is to record your gameplay, at least during the auto-save :smile33:

In reply to Dirty_Player

HellLighT

9 years ago

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Dirty_Player

Guys, those who suggest saving at the beginning of the turn, are you really that naive or are you just pretending? :D I can immediately name a bunch of manipulations that can be performed with this. Do I really need to voice them? Or will you think about it and figure it out yourselves? :rolleyes:

Well, some are naive, and some are cunning :smile28:

rebellious

9 years ago

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After all, baratorch specifically requested adding time for "useful" manipulations – like, for example, taking a moment to remember something. And aren't both players essentially doing that during this time? Well, if we misuse this, or use it for our own benefit, it's better to resolve the issue. And isn't the last method the most optimal?
There's no need to manually save at the beginning of a turn. Those who didn't know, a save is automatically made when a turn is received. And the autosave, like 111.gm2 or AUTOSAVE.gm2, is first saved at the beginning of the turn. That's what you should load.
And you can do dirty manipulations in any way, especially uncontrolled ones; no one will force you to prohibit them. This is a space within the player's control. But this space can be minimized. And if it can be, why not declare these possibilities? Like with tobacco and alcohol. Restrictive measures do reduce their consumption.
By the way, there's a downside to manual saving in terms of seconds spent saving and then, when loading, on transferring the turn. And we could ask baratorch to introduce a timer fix in the log at the moment players disconnect, if possible. This is also an organizing measure.

Yosha

9 years ago

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If the game can distinguish between a regular save and an autosave (at least by the file name), then implement a system where, upon loading an autosave, all in-game buttons are disabled except for the settings and the turn transfer button (similar to how the "dig for the Grail" button used to work), and the opponent remembers that the player loaded an autosave.

In reply to Yosha

KobRa_RR

9 years ago

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Yosha

If the game can distinguish between a regular save and an autosave (at least by the file name), then it should be implemented so that when loading, all buttons in the game are disabled except for settings and passing the turn (as it used to be with the "dig for the Grail" button), and the opponent remembers that the player loaded a save.

I support this.

HellLighT

9 years ago

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don't forget that the game is being reworked not only for online content with its own rules, but how will new players and those who prefer offline play be able to play with your changes? Perhaps you could ask a wizard to add it as an option in the rules.

FireToSky

9 years ago

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lol what

Yosha

9 years ago

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As an alternative, this change should only affect the AUTOSAVE file; otherwise, it will be impossible to review the game later. Currently, there is only one such file for all games. If it were possible to generate it in the folder with a specific game, it wouldn't be overwritten. All regular saves, made manually or daily saves made when passing the turn, should remain unchanged. In theory, the AUTOSAVE file and the regular daily save for the same day differ only in their name. Therefore, they need to be separated somehow. To understand that AUTOSAVE has been loaded, where it is not possible to change one's turn, another timer should be added, for example, 5 minutes.
Or, even better, add a new file, similar to BATTLE, from which delayed tournament games should be loaded.

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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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