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I was playing an online duel in Heroes 3 – naturally, I saved the game.
After the game (while reviewing the saves), many questions arose...
For example, take a look at the attached saves... look at the red player's (Shakti) actions on turns 8-9. What is this? Luck!? or a pre-planned direction of movement? Share your opinion... why would the main hero run, without scouting, into a swamp on the edge of the map (into the darkness)...?
If, for some reason, you don't want to express your opinion in this thread, I've created a poll for you (private), meaning others won't see which option you voted for. You can also write to me in PM or ICQ 466-212-416 Thank you in advance!
I believe there was map hacking. Shakhti received an artifact from Tan and gave him his army, leaving a gnoll for traveling through the swamp. He visited the morale-boosting spot. He is short of one turn's worth of gold, but hardly would a competent player venture into the swamp as a leader just to collect gold. Shakhtyor also had no intention of breaking the dwarves.
Added after 2 minutes PS But in my experience, there was a case where, after studying the saves, I could be suspected of map hacking. I was moving as a leader along the border of the secondary respawn, along the mountains, looking for a passage to the opponent's respawn. I maintained a chain. And I happened to approach the Dragon Utopia. If you track the daily saves, you can see how the hero purposefully moves toward the Dragon Utopia into the darkness...
I agree that Shakti's behavior was very strange at that moment. To go as a Warlord deep into the swamp, deliberately moving towards a can, which turned out to be a level 2 creature, while Shakti's army only allowed him to take a level 2 creature at most. But you could have asked your opponent first; maybe he would have explained why he went there. If he hadn't given you a satisfactory answer, I still don't think it was worth posting about it on the forum. As Dreamcatcher says, there are moments in the game that don't make any sense and are done randomly, which makes some people suspicious. But if this had happened to you with that person again, then you could have posted a similar topic on the forum!
Thanks for your opinion... :smile42: The thing is, it won't be possible to directly find out from the opponent, but as for "playing and accusing," you'll be thanking me later ;) (the best part is yet to come);) And regarding "repeatedly," the point is that this example clearly illustrates it - before, there were only suspicions, but now there's real evidence. A "Conservatory" on the swamp, level 2, is easily taken, and most importantly, it leads to the treasury through a portal, even though the "Conservatory" near the "home" hasn't been explored, despite heroes passing by it repeatedly - because it has 3 angels. And usually, scouts are sent ahead of the main heroes - but here, reconnaissance was done in a different way :) . Someone really gave themselves away... who disagrees? Let's discuss it!?
As Dreamcatcher says, there are moments in the game that defy all logic and are done randomly, which raises suspicions in some. But if something like this happened to you with that person, then you could post a similar topic on the forum!
There is always logic in actions, but it is not always obvious. Maybe I missed something, some goal of the red player. But since Alex_R doesn't name his opponent, no one's name has been tarnished yet, and there is nothing criminal in creating this topic.
There is always logic in actions, but it is not always obvious.
:smile43: I also sometimes have situations where I don't know where to go, no tasty targets have been scouted, and there's no scout nearby to pave the way for the overlord and sniff something out. Sometimes I just go wherever my eyes take me out of desperation. But I personally wouldn't head deep into the swamp without any idea of what's there.
Here, I initially thought there was a valid reason to go to the swamps... the gold is obtained easily, and then you can build a Watchtower and use it to quickly explore the swamp... but Shakti gets a morale boost... why? And he doesn't have enough movement points to collect gold and build a Watchtower...
But then I saw that a chain of Manticores is being built... so, it's a suspicious save... but it's clear that the opponent (playing as Shakti) is still stronger than Alex... why would he cheat? But once again, my opinion is that it looks very much like cheating.
Дипломатия - искусство говорить собаке "хорошая собачка" до тех пор пока не найдешь подходящую палку.
IMHO, the poll is somewhat flawed. It lacks the option: " "Insufficient data to make a definitive statement." In its current format, the poll somewhat forces a choice, so it probably cannot be considered sufficiently reliable. End of IMHO. :)
Стратегия - искусство возможного.
Первое правило форума : "Хвалу и клевету приемли равнодушно И не оспаривай глупца" (с)
Новичкам: ВНИМАТЕЛЬНО перечитайте ВЕСЬ первый пост по нижеприведенной ссылке и 90% ваших вопросов отпадут( на остальные 10% с удовольствием отвечу): Правила онлайн игр
Here are some additional save files for days 10-11-12-13... Also, there are save files from another duel with the same player (he's playing as Valesk). In the second duel, I believe that deliberately moving towards my castle without deviating from the path – to make it in time for 1-2-1 – is a valid strategy. Also, on day 5, Valesk receives 4 vampires from the Necropolis – to secure a unit to take out one angel (see the save file "restored part..."). P.S. There is also evidence of the opponent's motivation for such actions, and logs indirectly confirm "peeking." There is even information that this opponent was already suspected of "peeking" on another resource... but I sincerely hope that it won't come to that. Thank you for your opinions and criticism. I can't fix the poll myself... I'll ask a moderator.
Also, here are the saves from another duel with the same player (he was playing as Valesk). In the second duel, I think that deliberately moving towards my Castle without deviating anywhere – to make it in time for turn 1-2-1 – is a good strategy. Also, on day 5, Valesk receives 4 vampires from the Dungeon – to take the treasure with one angel (see the save "restored part...").
I'm not very good at these random maps, but they say that real pros know where everything is located, and despite the randomness, it's essentially the same for them. They also know where everything is and what might be waiting for them there. For example, when I go down a road, I often don't deviate anywhere because usually, there aren't enough of these detours:D. And then, where else could he go but to the Dungeon:p? He went, saw the treasure, and took what was there (4 vampires, why not?). And most importantly, if he saw everything, why did he use other heroes to scout? After all, he saw everything and knew what he was taking from your Castle, so it's over; there's no need to scout anything. And secondly, on day 5, you could have restarted because of the encounter. In the previous round with my favorite heroes, I jumped into a portal on day 4 and ended up teleporting to my opponent, who was also looking at the map? But the opponent attacked, and there was a restart. And in the Swamps, there are always weak creatures, at least in the 4 random maps I played. You should have sent it to the Heroes Bay to show them; it would be interesting to see what they would say. There are no better random map experts in Russia; they constantly watch others play live and will immediately say whether something like this happens often or not. But, to be honest, I don't really understand the desire of many on this forum to review saves. It seems that the point of the game is to find as many violations as possible after the game and protest them:smile08:. Or maybe those who play on the Tournament Edition don't have these problems:)
Added after 35 minutes Regarding the trip to the Swamp, while I was reading, I thought he really went to the Swamp, but it turns out it's only 2 steps away, not the edge of the map:D. Again, if we assume that he was looking at the map, why did he choose the winding path to the Swamp instead of going straight to the Rampart:confused:? There are three treasures and a wood + 3 artifacts, weak guards + a level 5 creature in the Rampart, which is not in the Swamp, and you can also go from the Rampart to the Dungeon with more troops from the 3 treasures and the wood (I didn't bother and didn't check the contents of these objects; I think the others didn't either). And you yourself didn't deviate much and didn't try to collect gold; you also went straight to the tower; did you peek at the map:D? P.S. Or maybe I just want to justify the guy, although objectively, I don't see any reason why he shouldn't play the way he does; everyone has their own logic, and it's not always possible or worth understanding it:smile42:. Paraphrasing a silly saying: laughter without a reason is a sign of foolishness – nonsense, because not everyone is given to understand the reasons for this laughter because we are people, and people are different: with different views and upbringing, and what is funny to one is not funny to another
I also used to try to understand the structures of generated maps to better recognize the terrain, but it didn't lead to anything... thankfully, I've at least learned how to find guards between spawn points. Of course, no one caught anyone red-handed, but I noticed a lot of suspicious things about this opponent – and here (a rush with Gnol in the swamp without prior scouting with Scouts). As one Heroes 3 expert told me, it would have been logical to take a Pandora and go crush the Dwarf faction... and that the player's desire to go there is due to the availability of a low-tier resource (the only one that can be taken without problems with the available forces), and this is despite the fact that this resource is in the dark, while the one he ran past on turn 1-1-4 or 1-1-5 wasn't even scouted by the second week, even though the hero and two Scouts ran past it. I brought up the second duel for the sake of showing that it wasn't an isolated incident, but rather the most obvious absurdity. And by the way, I didn't quite understand the point about why scout with heroes if you're revealing the map... but what about chains, and ultimately, to cover your tracks? And regarding me, of course, I didn't take any gold, as I was running along the road, and turning onto the snow with Basilisks and Skeletons is not very practical... especially since the further the road went, the more I wanted to reach the secondary resource. P.S. In any case, thank you for your opinion... I will take it into account ;)
I'm not much of an specialist in stupid randoms, but they say real pros know where everything is located and despite the random for them it's essentially the same fixed map, they also know where everything is located and what might await them there
If the template is familiar, you can predict the location of the nearest computer secondary hero and even the enemy's castle, approximate key guard stacks and the placement of "fat" zones, and successfully evaluate future runs. But you cannot predict the size of a can without scouting, and even with scouting it doesn't always work out, sometimes you have to sacrifice a scout hero.
should have sent it to Hiros Bay to show, I wonder what they would say, there are no specialists better in randoms in Russia, they constantly watch live how others play and will immediately say whether that happens often or not
A reasonable remark, especially since some Bay players appear here as well. Their opinion is truly competent and weighty.
or simply those who play on TE don't have your problems
There are no problems when you are confident in your opponent, the version has nothing to do with it, and cheaters were caught on Bay as well. A launched editor is already evil, and what can be done having 2 computers in the room, one neighbor, and a "shared" game folder... Even an RP can get wrecked by an average player.
Unfortunately, I can't submit them to "Bay" for three reasons, but I would read their comments.
Could you tell me what those reasons are? At least in a private message.
Added after 19 hours 6 minutes I looked at the save files. My opinion is that the probability of them being viewed is 99.9%. Or the person has incredible intuition, which I highly doubt.
I checked out the save files... They're really interesting. It's like having intuition from the planet Sirius! I think the world of Heroes will soon be shaken by the appearance of Hiro-Nostradamus.
Всё будет хорошо!!! Только неизвестно когда... НО ОБЯЗАТЕЛЬНО БУДЕТ!!! Но!... Слушай всех, прислушивайся к немногим, решай сам...
Well said, genius, how will you prove it? (s) 2AndreyALN;156243
In fact, I don't really understand the desire of many on this forum to review saves; it seems that the essence of the game boils down to finding and contesting as many violations as possible after the game.
Actually, saves are a necessary thing, and cheating has nothing to do with it. 3AndreyALN;156243
Those who play on the test server don't have your problems:)
See point 1
Added 3 minutes ago Alex_R;155939
If for some reason you don't want to express your opinion in this topic
Sasha, I already told you in ICQ:) I can vote,:)
Added 6 minutes ago invisible;155990
Some people play, while others only know how to accuse everyone of cheating. :D I agree that Shakti's behavior is very strange at the moment.
Sergei, should we discuss this with everyone in ICQ? For example, I don't care much - I play for fun and therefore don't even look at saves - only when I'm writing a report:) But when I played with one friend - on Might and Magic, in 4 weeks, the entire Inferno was built, I had 3 swamps, all without hydras, I barely won (the person plays much worse than me), I suspected something was wrong, I looked at the save - just a million of everything. Of course, it's not scary, but if you play to win, it's annoying (probably)
Added 9 minutes ago Armagedda;156572
Can I know these reasons? At least in private. I looked at the saves. My opinion is that the probability of viewing is 99.9%. Or the person has an unreal intuition, which I highly doubt.
I don't know what's in the deleted messages, but I'll say a word: I think if Sasha names the person, it will just be another scandal, feud, well, in short, the kind of thing we all don't like but are so quick to get involved in:rolleyes: So, I understand that this is not to expose cheating, but to test a hypothesis... Checking for cheating implies serious preparation for fraud, which in itself will ruin the player's reputation. And since there is even a small chance that this is just a lucky coincidence, there is a possibility of ruining the reputation of an honest player (it is small, but it exists). So let's leave everything as assumptions and theories, the purpose of which is to satisfy curiosity and perhaps self-esteem:smile28: