Meetings of the Local Council of Mapmakers. Auto-translated

2 Iron Axe
I strongly disagree.
Of course, saves require careful verification, especially if a map is also provided with the save.
And three days is a very short time; the deadline could be up to a week.
Not to mention that this issue should definitely be discussed jointly with the tournament organizers.

Preliminary tournament results can be published within an hour, and certainly no later than the day after the official end of the tournament. Then you can check for as long as you want, but set a deadline for publishing the final results, at least a week. Is the idea clear? Alan liked it. I personally didn't understand in what and why you strongly disagree. If a violator is found after a week, then, of course, the preliminary results will be canceled; that's why they are PRELIMINARY.

Added 1 hour 1 minute ago

To Iron Axe: is your clan planning to join the LMS?

This is not for me – I am not authorized. Let Inquisitor find someone to send to you. I don't have time; I'm already trying to actively participate everywhere – here's a real suggestion I put forward for discussion – and QWERTY immediately and strongly rejects it. Then I have to calculate the rating; I'm really surprised how you manage to do everything and still calculate the rating in three different versions. Therefore, I definitely won't go to your LMS with the clan. There's not enough time for everything, at least for now. And then we'll see what exactly you will be doing – what issues, besides organizing the LMS itself, will you be solving.

I vote in favor of adopting the charter as Alexey Pank stated in his last post. Regarding my candidacy for the deputy position, I can take it on for now, but if someone else wants to take on this role, I will gladly hand over the responsibilities. 2 Iron Axe If you kindly provide the tournament organizers with a program for comparing the initial and final save files for identicality (for each version of Heroes), then, of course, we can accept your proposal. We are waiting for this program from you.

2 Iron Axe
If you kindly provide the tournament organizers with a program to compare the initial and final save files for identicality (for each version of the game), then, of course, your proposal can be accepted.
We are waiting for this program from you.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Maybe you can explain in more detail, or perhaps Geksorin can help. What does the identicality of the initial and final save files have to do with it? Are you saying that for the past three days, the identicality of each of the submitted final save files has been checked against the initial one? And all this is done without a program? That's why it takes so long. Well, fine, let them check manually. But what do preliminary results have to do with it? Let me explain. The tournament ends, and the next day, the judge looks at all the save files and gives a preliminary result, where I am in first place, and you are naturally in second. Then, for a week, or even two weeks for a more accurate check, the save files are checked. It turns out that my save file is not identical. The final table is drawn up, and the final results are announced. The person who deserves to be in first place is in first place, and all the cheaters and those whose save files do not match are kicked out. What's wrong with preliminary results? What will they change? People will simply know the approximate results the very next day, which do not yet have official force, but will have official force only after the final check. We are waiting for your clear explanations as to why it is not possible to announce preliminary results the very next day.

2 Iron Axe
I don't quite understand why PRELIMINARY results are needed. Is it to publish inaccurate results? Three days is a very short period, and, frankly, manual verification is a huge amount of work! Which is also greatly complicated by the publication of the map...
Besides, I highly doubt that it is within the competence of our Council to give instructions to tournament organizers: on what deadline to summarize the results.
Naturally, everything will change significantly after you provide the program for comparing save files. Then we will return to this issue.

I also think that waiting a couple of days is quite realistic... During this time, you can calm down and just relax. Otherwise, as usual, everyone rushes to finish everything on the last evening - and if you start posting the results the next day (i.e., actively discussing them), you might not have enough energy, leading to nervous breakdowns and problems in real life, etc.

In general, if everyone agrees with my candidacy for the position of Chairman (and I warned you! 😉), then I propose (or make a decision – consider it as you like).
Lexa Punk is entrusted with the authority to formalize and officially publish the decisions of the LZMС.

As the secretary of the League of Clans, I propose the following topics for discussion: 1) The need for all clans within the League to develop and publish their clear charters, so that those wishing to join a clan can clearly see what each clan represents. 2) To increase clan transparency, require each clan within the League to publish the results of internal clan tournaments, so that the strength of the clans can be assessed. I am ready to start working on the detailed development of these projects immediately after receiving approval from the Chairman or Vice-Chairman.

I apologize, this is slightly off-topic... you can delete it later.

I don't understand what you're talking about. Maybe you can explain in more detail, or someone else can help, for example, Geksorin.

So, your idea, IronAxe, is clear to me; you're suggesting preliminary results (for example, like in elections, where preliminary results are announced the next morning, and the final results are released after 2 weeks). Basically, I agree with you; it's not difficult to record who performed how. But consider this: we don't have such a large-scale event that many people would be waiting for the results. In reality, the result is important for fewer than 50 people. So, I think we can wait three days, but another issue arises: checking the save files... In reality, there are two ways to check save files, to prevent cheating (i.e., hacking the map itself, which allows you to add monsters, pick up artifacts from chests, and so on): 1) Play through it yourself (because descriptions are rarely sent with the map, so checking the save file is the same as playing the map yourself, which, as you understand, takes a lot of time) - this is rarely used, in my opinion. 2) Check the save file with special programs to detect hacking and cheating. "Anti-cheat" programs can quickly and often guarantee protection against "common cheats" with almost 95% accuracy. This is also rarely used because many people haven't seen cheats, and there's no need to talk about anti-cheat programs at all, in my opinion. 3) Ignore the check and believe that the player is honest. Almost 95% of checked save files are handled this way, in my opinion (based on life experience). Now, let me clarify the essence of your discussion with Qwerty: You, IronAxe, are suggesting introducing preliminary results, after which the save files can be checked for cheating... This is where the problem lies. Qwerty says that to produce the final results, an "anti-cheat" program is needed, which none of us have. That's essentially the problem. So, IronAxe was talking about preliminary results, and Qwerty was saying that an automated program is needed to check these save files. I think I've explained everything :cool:

Now, let me clarify the essence of your argument with Qwerty:
You, IronAxe, suggest introducing preliminary results, after which the saves can be calmly checked for cheating... This is where the problem lies...
Qwerty says that to verify the final results, an "anti-cheat" program is needed – which none of us have, and that's essentially the problem...
So, IronAxe was talking about preliminary results, while Qwerty was saying that an automated program is needed to check these saves.
I think I've explained everything:cool:

I just want to say that preliminary results do no harm and don't require much time. But remember the discussions about tournament organizers who also play. It wasn't me who started it. On the contrary, I'm in favor of organizers playing both for results and for ranking. Remember how in one of the tournaments, it seems it was Best Of Best, VDV_forever, being the tournament organizer, was one of the first to submit his Walkthrough, sent his save to the admin, and informed everyone about it so that there would be no talk or suspicion that he was using saves sent to him by other players. And his action was correct. Now that we have Clans, and the Clans also include tournament organizers, the same thing happens. Preliminary results are designed to eliminate the suspicion that the results of opponents will be passed through the organizer to their Clan. And they have three days in reserve, having the opponent's result in hand. In other words, if a person feels that his result is good and he sends his result on the last day, he knows that the next day the preliminary results will be posted, showing the preliminary results of everyone. Opponents do not have enough time to improve their results. Because preliminary results in the final stage cannot be IMPROVED. After verification, only cheaters can be disqualified. And without preliminary results, all sorts of unnecessary suspicions may arise. Take even your situation. Your diskette could not be read, and you PRELIMINARILY sent your result without the save and explanatory information about the save that you haven't sent yet. And this removes any suspicion about you and your save. Only the organizer sees these preliminary results. And all other players will see all this together only in a few days at the final announcement (in three days or more). In general, I don't suspect anyone of anything yet, understand as you wish, but I believe that announcing preliminary results is not superfluous. That's why I contacted LZMС with a question, but I see that its work boils down to some incomprehensible meetings on the organization of LZMС itself. I consider my question to be related to the regulation of relations between Clans, and I don't see anything wrong with it.
PS. Oh, sorry, I confused you with Zingel in the example, but nevertheless, this does not change the main idea.

The relationships between the clans need to be regulated, but the question is, which clans? Currently, only three clans are part of the League of Northern Clans, and there haven't been any problems between them. However, clans outside the League can simply ignore it without fearing any consequences.

In other words, the League of Clans is a kind of alliance of clans. If a clan joins the League of Clans, it is, in a way, already united with others, which means that the League of Clans is a kind of empire, uniting disparate principalities. Based on this, I don't think there is a need to further unite clans that are already part of the League of Clans. We already maintain excellent relations. But now that we are an alliance, we need to help each other. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Dark Templars are not having their best days right now. I suggest we discuss the problem of the sharp decline in their numbers. This has been going on for a while, so I think it is worth discussing.

The relationships between the Clans need to be resolved, but the question is, which Clans. Currently, only three Clans are part of the League, and there haven't been any problems between them. However, Clans outside the League can simply ignore it without fearing any consequences.

It's clear that they don't want to resolve this issue within the League. But in that case, I will consider that if the tournament organizer belongs to a Clan, then announcing the preliminary results of the tournament the very next day after the official deadline is a matter of honor for the organizer. And let them do as they please if this issue no longer interests anyone else.

I still believe that this is not a problem with the League of Mapmakers and Scenario Creators, but rather with the tournament organizers themselves. After all, clans are not the only ones participating in the tournaments. Regarding helping the Templars, I would like to know their own opinion on this matter so that we can determine what we can do.

Well, regarding the opinion of the Templars themselves – to be honest, during my communication with Suprum, I got the impression that he isn't very interested in his own clan. :( By the way, things aren't going too well for the "Soul Hunters" either...

I still believe that this is not a problem of the Heroes of Might and Magic Online community, but rather a problem of the tournament organizers themselves. After all, clans are not the only ones participating in tournaments.

Or maybe it's a problem with clans that don't have tournament organizers among their members :) And it doesn't matter whether the clan is a member of the Guild Initiative or the Heroes of Might and Magic Online community.