Posts from Heroes Ascension

Heroes Ascension
Greetings! As a fan of Heroes since 1999, I have often thought about improving the game system. Over time, I created a general game plan; it includes more than 20 castles, a 10-level unit system, three types of heroes — warrior, mage, and cleric, etc. If there are people who want to support me and we can draw up a more detailed plan for the new system, then we can move on to more decisive actions – creating models and developing plugins. I fully understand that this is difficult, but WOG and REKVIZIT have already been created, dealing with no less global tasks. For now, this is not work, but "creating castles on paper" as is done in many other threads. Please, speak up, join the project! I ask you not to write something like – it's unrealistic, it's too difficult! If you want to write something like that, read a few sentences above. For now, I am posting the description of the Knight race.

I haven't read Rasu's post in a while (work on the formatting), but it seems decent. Personally, I have a few thoughts:

1. A limit on the shooting range of archers on the battlefield. That is, introduce a maximum distance.

2. Introduce synchronization between global and arena time. After a certain number of turns in arena mode pass, a new day begins, during which reinforcements can be brought in.

3. Introduce Zodiac Signs. There are 12 signs, such as the Griffin, Dragon, Lizard, etc. A zodiac sign is assigned to each hero. Depending on the sign, during "ferret week," the Lizard will have one bonus, while the Dragon will have another. Moreover, a "penalty" accompanies the bonus in pairs. The bonus and penalty are updated at the start of each week; to view them, you must click a special Zodiac icon in the hero's internal interface.

Thanks for the feedback!
Regarding the symbols – why don’t you take on that task? Ascension is a more global project; it’s not just one Castle. As I said at the beginning of the thread, it will be (in the distant future) something like WOG. I won’t be developing it alone; I want to involve as many people as possible.

Added after 33 minutes
Regarding attacks from different ranges – I think this would make the game too complicated.
Regarding the day and night cycle – excellent, but it needs to be thoroughly worked out.
Approximate list of factions:
10 from Heroes 3 (9 regular and Bastion), Powder Brotherhood (musketeers, dwarf arquebusiers, etc.), Underworld (city of Dark Elves), Eternal Forest (half-elves created by Zavulon), Olympus (Greek mythology still has a lot to offer), Pagoda (China and Japan), Palace (Arabian myths), Kremlin (Slavs – a benevolent mythology), Ves (Slavs – an evil mythology), Port (something like the underwater factions of Andrey and Triton Xara),
Wandering City (a mishmash of outcasts from other cities), Gothic City (an anti-Castle, based on the religion of apostasy from the Light), Stronghold (Norse mythology and the Elves of Vor), Ziggurat (Aztec mythology, as Mugais mentioned).

Regarding me – I can help with ideas. That is, to formulate units clearly and precisely, new combat systems, etc. But in general, I'm a zero in modding, except for searching for images on the topic. Bastion – is that Egypt? I support Powder Brotherhood, but we need an absolutely accurate list of units and a unique ability. See the thread here – Technomancer Race; there are some interesting thoughts. I don’t support Dungeon because there is already a pretty good Castle – Dungeon from the original Heroes, and you can also look at Dark Elves in Might and Magic V. I support Eternal Forest; I came up with something on this topic myself: /topic/at/40112/ – and Witchers would fit well there. I don’t really support Olympus. There are already Mages and a water-themed castle based on Greek mythology, and a race from the real world kind of… spoils the atmosphere. And as I said, there are already several castles where there are units from Greek mythology – titans, medusas, and others... Pagoda. Let's make all the other races first, then we'll see. But I predict: elves and Chinese people next to each other just don't match. Races from the real world aren't meant for Heroes. Palace. Hmm... I don't know anything specific, but there are already Djinns and Nagas in the Mage Guild castle. In my opinion, that's quite enough. Kremlin. Again, a race from the real world. Yesterday, I would have been for it, but now I understand the disadvantages of this race – after all, it creates some ambiguity in the interpretation of the worlds – either it is Erathia or our own world with Russian warriors and witchers. Whole. For. Almost without humans, inhabited by monsters that don't immediately evoke associations with our world. Make the interior of the castle nighttime – full of trees, lights everywhere, old willows, house spirits, and forest sprites... Yes, the atmosphere will be even better than the night elves from Warcraft. Port – yes. I was thinking about this myself. We’ll talk more about this later. Wandering City – a mishmash and lacks harmony, plus extra work… No. Gothic City. Not exactly, but there are ideas regarding this. More precisely, not ideas, but a gothic castle. Stronghold. I support Wood Elf Stronghold; no to Scandinavia. Ziggurat. Yes.

Guys, you're going overboard! There are already plenty of factions. Also, keep in mind that this isn't another installment of "Age of Empires," but "Heroes," and we need not only historical but also fantasy units.
So, Scandinavia (unfortunately!) and Greece (hooray!) are immediately out. They've already used up almost all the monsters (gnomes, elves, trolls - from Scandinavian mythology, where elves were called alvs, and trolls were used alongside the words giants and thurses) and (medusas, pegasi, titans, minotaurs, harpies - from Greek mythology).
Two races based on our mythology is not a good idea! We don't need nationalism, Slavophilia, and a bunch of clichés!:mad: (I'm Russian, by the way)
We already have a Gothic city; it's called Necropolis. Making a city of various Satanists instead of a city of demons is a good idea, but don't steal the Necropolis's atmosphere!
Bastion - Egypt is just awesome. Elves have absolutely nothing to do with the Egyptians, which is strange... it would be better to use some cat-like race with Egyptian culture, like Khajiit (TES) or Tigrans (AoW2).
I fully support the Chinese race:) See the corresponding topic:)
Forget about the Eternal Forest of half-elves because we already have elves. The only thing we could do is make something in the style of Rivendell from "The Lord of the Rings" with the elves - that is, elves, but not forest elves. I would support such a race:)

In general, the idea is good; I'll try to come up with something myself... The main thing is not to get too carried away and know when to stop! Otherwise, it will turn out to be terrible...

So, I have the following:

I support: Gunpowder Brotherhood at 1/3 - 30%.

Eternal Forest at 1/2 - 50%.

All at 100%.

Port at 4/5 - 80%.

Elven Rogues at 4/5 - 82%.

Ziggurat at 3/5 - 70%.

A combination of the Sun and Ice factions, as well as Water and Earth (i.e., the Sylvan faction), would look particularly good.

I don't quite understand what the author is talking about... Could you explain what the esteemed Saruman is suggesting?

To Mugais:
You ask - we answer)
I (and hopefully not just me anymore) intend to create an improved model of Heroes, like a Heroes 3.5. Since there is a COLOSSAL amount of work ahead, everything must first be thought through on paper. My project is somewhat similar to Alex Soldger's World of Ideas, but more concrete, and has a better chance of implementation. For now, we just need to compose a beautiful and well-thought-out game world for Heroes 3 after the cataclysm, improve the game mechanics, diversify the choice of races, etc. Once we have a more or less coherent picture of the world, we can bring it to life. At first, it's not difficult, and even if the project doesn't reach the finale, we'll at least get pleasure from the Creation. Join in!
To Gamehunter:
Yes, the bastion is Egypt.
Underground - I think we can make two distinct underground castles; the Heroes 3 wizards are more like brutal Warlocks, and the dark elves are evil aesthetes and egoists; besides, there are enough underground monsters for everyone.
Walking City - fine, let's scrap it, maybe we can make something like a refugee camp as a structure on the map.
Kremlin - this will be the highlight of the city; for example, in Ancient Rus, the armies of Perun's appointee and Viy (Chernobog's commander) clashed. As a result of the increased use of magic, they were transported to a new world, barely settled in, and subsequently organized two races - Kremlin and Ves. Moreover, the Kremlin will not have pseudo-Christian units; many light creatures can be found in mythology. In the other races, there will be NO connection between our world and the world of heroes!
Olympus - actually not particularly needed, it's just that some colorful Greek characters like Scylla, amazons, and prometheans were left out.
Scandinavians - there will be very few human units, probably only the northern Barbarians themselves; it will be mostly mythology, and as for a race of only elves, Vori... my imagination fails me.
Gothic city - a city of heretics who were originally good and broke away from Elgariol due to the horrors of the Inquisition. Originally scholars and freedom-lovers, they were gradually corrupted by agents of the Necromancer. Now it is a mixture of demonology, necromancy, and gothic. The prototype of the city is the Vampire: Masquerade games and the movie Underworld.

Added after 6 hours 28 minutes
[/U]To Gamehunter and Silvanis:
Why such a bias toward elves? What is this racism? It doesn't work with Egypt, it doesn't work with China – they won't be in those races.
To Silvanis:
What's so terrible about Egypt? In any case, the complaints are not for me but for the leadership of the bastion and WOG. Elves have nothing to do with this.
Two Slavic ones – attempts are currently being made to introduce a Russian city into Heroes 3.5 similar to the Bastion. They intended to combine dark and light characters of Slavic mythology into one city. Now it had to be skewed toward the light. Our mythology is very diverse, and if both cities are introduced into the world of heroes correctly, it will only be a good thing.
To Gamehunter:
Helping with ideas – that is exactly what is needed right now!
Regarding the Powder Brotherhood – I imagine this castle as a mix of dwarves (by the way, I've never imagined dwarves as tiny midgets, in my opinion, they should be no smaller than dwarfs) as the main race (steam tanks and centurions – similar to those in Morrowind), and the elite in the form of humans – musketeers and rapier-fighters (the elite in the state, not in the unit line) like 16th century France – only in spirit, not in letter! It will be like this – the majority live in industrial zones, working in plants and factories (since they are dwarves, they are happy with it), while the elite live in manors – entertaining themselves with balls and hunting. Founded by dwarves and expats from the Castle and Tower.
About the palace – we won't remove the djinns and naga from the Tower; they have already ingrained themselves in the players' consciousness as creatures of mages. Possible new units – Tuaregs (camel riders), Mamluks (heavy armored knights), Divs (desert spirits), Rakshasas (not the ones in 5, but the ones in India), and even the well-known ghouls – Arabian creatures.
By the way, I forgot to mention – you are the first person who answered me on this forum. :)

Three new ideas have appeared: an Africa castle – like the jungles of Chult from Forgotten Realms. But who to put there? Nothing comes to mind besides natives and lions. Maybe someone is familiar with African mythology?
Hive Castle. An insect-like castle, but no Starcraft; it will be more like Kwama from Morrowind and the Mantises and Wasp Nests in Heroes 4. Is it worth fleshing out this castle?
Pseudo-Mongol castle, I also can't figure out who to put there besides nomads? A pagoda does not reflect the spirit of free steppe warriors, great conquerors, and brilliant riders. Maybe someone can suggest something?
Introduction of a city defender. A particularly strong unit (but not as strong as in Disciples) will activate if there is only a clerk-hero in the city or no one at all. For Knight:
Cardinal – the head of the cathedral in large cities, the cardinal is a high hierarch of the Church of Light; the Hierophant is chosen from among the cardinals. He can stand in defense of his home city if it is threatened by an enemy.
Abilities: blessing, great heal, curing (removal of negative effects and +20HP)
For the Pagoda:
Daimyo – a distinguished commander of the Pagoda often settles in large cities; citizens turn to him in case of danger.
Abilities: Bushido (under the guidance of the daimyo, all samurai fight as noble samurai, passive skill), ninjutsu (under the guidance of the daimyo, all assassins fight as senseis, passive skill), sai daggers (the daimyo has 4 throwing daggers that remove 30HP each).

By the way, I've already been brainstorming ideas for a Hive castle. I came up with something like these units. The general name for these insectoids is Foromians.

Larva - Adolescent
Worker - Builder
Soldier - Bombardier
Flyer - Winged Hunter
Thinker - Philosopher
Hive Lord - Foromian Patriarch
Princess - Queen

This is just a rough draft for now.

Let me throw an idea your way – one of my friends once played a game where the heroes were like tier 3, but there were hundreds of them. He played as the MUSHROOM race!!! By the way, the throwing weapon of ninjas is not "shuriken," but suriken. Elves cannot be placed in Egypt in any way, as they are not connected to Egypt as much as is even possible. And I am definitely against creating two Slavic races and, moreover, transferring them from our world to the world of Heroes! This is just some kind of nationalism and inappropriate, exaggerated patriotism. Our mythology, although rich, is, firstly, largely secondary to Scandinavian mythology, secondly, much poorer than Chinese, Indian, or Egyptian mythology (and there are no races based on those!), and thirdly, all information about our mythology is extremely contradictory and taken from very dubious sources. Of course, the Elder and Younger Eddas, written by the Christian Snorri Sturluson, from which we mainly draw knowledge about Scandinavian paganism, are not exactly perfect either, but there is even less about Slavic mythology! Don't be offended, Saruman, but we have a forum dedicated to Heroes, not a patriotic club

I have a suggestion to create each race in two versions. Let me explain:
At the beginning, you choose a side – evil or good, and then the race. Each race has both a good and an evil side (note that I'm not talking about dark and light, but specifically evil and good). Take several races and divide them into good and evil. Here's an example:
Evil Necromancer – these are complete sociopaths; they become Necromancers because they crave eternal life at any cost, or simply because they are afraid of death and try to avoid it in this way. Their ultimate dream is to turn the entire universe into one big graveyard.
Theme – Necromancers from Heroes of Might and Magic 5, crossed with Necromancers from Heroes of Might and Magic 3.
Good Necromancer – Once, this was a great kingdom that fell due to a fatal mistake. Now it is a kingdom of the dead, trying with all its might to ensure that the races that succeed them do not repeat that mistake and thus destroy the entire world... (what exactly this mistake is will be revealed in the course of the Campaign).
Theme – Something completely new. I think it would be better to base it on Egypt.

This is a very brief overview. Later, I will post about the Forest Elves and Dark Elves.

Note: there will be two races that can only be chosen when playing as good or only as evil. These are Paladins and Demons.

Saruman, that's a great idea! I have some ideas about war machines and the highest tier of warriors. I came up with these ideas for HoMM5, and I have others as well. If my ideas about some of the factions (even if only partially) are implemented in the next HoMM5 expansion (which would show that the ideas are good), I would be happy to share more detailed ideas. For now, I would like to know if there will be an alternative in choosing buildings for constructing creatures.

If some of my ideas regarding certain factions are implemented in the next add-on for HoMM5.

MoZeS, no offense, but ADD-ON and PATCH are completely different things:D:D

Olympus - actually not really needed, it's just that some colorful Greek characters like Scylla, Amazons and Prometheans were left out.

Guess where I wanted to put the Amazons? In the Ziggurat, because South America = Amazon River = most prejudices about where Amazons live. Of course, in reality - east or north of Greece, but it's possible there too; this is a different, fantasy world where differences from the real world are actually good. Although Greek Amazons would be a bit more harmonious in terms of style and appearance compared to their South American hm... counterparts :)
However, there is another thought: you suggested 10-11 levels for creatures. I see several reasons why this should not be done:

1) Where will you find room in the city's internal layout to place the building? The concentration with 7 dwellings is already high, so we shouldn't push it too far.

2) You came up with a dozen units for humans. But can you come up with them for a more complex race with a poorer mythology?

3) Enthusiasm is good. But the largest Heroes modding team in the form of WOG managed to add far less than what you're saying. And you are all alone. So I suggest discarding the maximum number of races, innovations, and so on - and keeping only that which harmonizes with the world of heroes, is brilliant in terms of game gameplay, and is not too difficult to implement. Keep only the most basic innovations.
You'll spend a year or two making one race, and in the end, the project will not meet the high requirements of players, and they will be disappointed. Well, that's the worst-case scenario. What am I suggesting?
1) To start with, deal not with races, but with actual gameplay features that provide new possibilities in the game. By supplementing an already good game with a reasonable portion of new functions and details, you'll get a good start.
2) Then all existing races need to be improved.
3) And only then, after all technical innovations, on prepared ground - deal with new factions. There is plenty of time - Heroes 5 did not surpass Heroes 3, and fans love them.




And one more thing: 10-11 levels is too many. As a thought was expressed here, you could make branches: let there be 7 levels, but we'll add two types of creatures to each castle. They can be built in same slots, choosing either the old or the new ones. I believe 2 new creatures per race is the most reasonable thing that can be undertaken (forgive the pathos).

9 creatures per race.

I'll finish writing the rest of the comments now, otherwise it will be hard to read. Saruman, a note - format your posts! Solid mountains of text do not encourage reading.







Added after 1 hour 16 minutes
Kremlin - this will be the highlight of the city, as if in Ancient Rus' the regiments of Perun's appointee and Viy (Chernobog's general) clashed; as a result of increased use of magic, they move to a new world, somehow settle in, and subsequently organize two races - Kremlin and Ves. Moreover, there will be no pseudo-Christian units in the Kremlin, and many light creatures can be found in mythology. In other races, there will be NO connection between our world and the world of heroes!

No, you've definitely been on the WOG forum and read about their Russian city. There it also teleported from our world. Right then, let's dot all the i's: no connection between our world and the world of heroes is allowed (by me, yes :) ). This violates the integrity and harmony of the Heroes world. It's like Warrant Officer Ivanov ending up in a fairy tale about Vasilisa the Beautiful. After all, it's so easy to come up with a justification: before they didn't appear before humans, elves, dragons, mages, Necromancers, etc., living deep in the forests. And now they've come out.

And Kremlin is actually completely unnecessary. "Ves" is much more needed. In general, check the forum, I participate in discussions there myself, recently - http://forum.df2.ru/index.php?showforum=48

Scandinavians - human units will be extremely few, probably only the northern Barbarians themselves; mostly mythology, and as for a race of same elves Vor... imagination fails.

What are you saying? Check the topic: /topic/1200/

Gothic city - a city of heretics who were originally good and split from Elgariol due to the horrors of the Inquisition; originally scholars and freedom-lovers, they were gradually corrupted by agents of Necromancers. Now it is a mixture of demonology, necromancy, and gothic style. The prototype for the city - Vampire:Masquerade games and the movie Underworld.

Well, that's a game and a movie about the modern world. And the same own gothic atmosphere exists in Necropolis. No, let's set this city aside for now until we do the main work. Then we'll see...


Why is Egypt "hardcore"? In any case, complaints are not to me but to the leadership of Bastion and WOG. Elves have nothing to do with it.

Well, Bastion is good. But the Egyptian theme is too obvious. And in general, I'm tired of talking about the negative traits of transferring real nations' features into Heroes races... But - an Egyptian Necropolis is clearly better than an abstract Bastion. There you go ;)

Helping with ideas – that's exactly what's needed now!

Always happy to help!

Regarding the Powder Brotherhood – I imagine this castle as a mixture of dwarves (by the way, I never imagined dwarves as tiny midgets, in my opinion they should be no smaller than dwarfs) as the main race (steam tanks and centurions – similar to those from Morrowind), and the elite in the form of human musketeers and swordsmen (elite in the state, not in the unit line) like 16th-century France – only in spirit, not by the letter! It would work out so - the bulk lives in industrial zones, working at plants and factories (since they are dwarves, they're happy), while the elite live in estates – entertaining themselves with balls and hunting. Founded by dwarves and people from Castle and Tower.

Hm... Mugais and I imagine this as a small mountain state inhabited only by dwarves. On the lower levels - dwarves, on the higher ones - them again, but piloting combat mechanisms. Check the topic: /topic/1235/

And humans are not what's needed. For humans, you can just play as humans ;)

Three new ideas appeared: Africa castle – like the jungles of Chult from Forgotten Realms. But who to put there? Nothing comes to mind besides natives and lions. Maybe someone is familiar with African mythology?
Hive Castle. An insect-like castle, but no Starcraft, it will be more like the Kwama from Morrowind and the Manticores and Wasp nests in Heroes 4. Is this castle worth thinking through?
Pseudo-Mongol castle, I also can't imagine who to put there besides nomads? A Pagoda doesn't show the spirit of free steppe warriors, great conquerors and brilliant riders. Maybe someone can suggest something?

Let's set these races aside for now - you can't stamp them out at jet speed. For now, let's focus on other things.

Introduction of a city defender. An especially strong unit (but not as strong as in Disciples) will activate if there is only a clerk-hero in the city or no one at all. For Knight:
Cardinal – head of the cathedral in large cities, the cardinal is a high hierarch of the Church of Light; a Hierophant is chosen from among the cardinals. He can stand to defend his home city if it is threatened by an enemy.
Abilities: blessing, great heal, healing (removal of negative effects and +20HP)
For Pagoda:
Daimyo – a distinguished general of the Pagoda often settles in large cities; citizens turn to him in case of danger.
Abilities: Bushido (under the leadership of the daimyo all samurai fight as noble samurai, passive skill), ninjutsu (under the leadership of the daimyo all assassins fight as senseis, passive skill), sai daggers (the daimyo has 4 throwing daggers dealing 30HP each).


There is no point. If a city has no defenders, the attacker will have a big, unpleasant disappointment. On the other hand, if there are defenders - then the need for a city defender disappears. Don't think this is a misunderstanding or rejection of the idea; it's just that introducing such a defender really doesn't make much sense.

And I am definitely against creating two Slavic races and - even more so - transferring them from our world to the world of heroes! This is simply some kind of nationalism and misplaced hypertrophied patriotism. Our mythology, although rich, is first of all largely secondary to Scandinavian, secondly much poorer than Chinese, Indian or Egyptian (for which there are no nations at all!), and thirdly, all information about our mythology is extremely contradictory and drawn from very dubious sources. Of course, the Poetic and Prose Eddas, written by the Christian Snorri Sturluson, from which we mainly draw knowledge of Scandinavian paganism, are also not same God's gift, but for Slavic mythology there isn't even that! Don't be offended, Saruman, but this is a forum dedicated to heroes, not a patriotic circle.

You didn't understand him. He wanted to divide - good Slavs and evil Slavic spirits. If it became one race, it would be a jumble. From me: a separate human-good race doesn't fit, because as I already said, transferring real nations into the world of heroes is risky, and besides, wouldn't these Slavs be too different from the same human faction... But dangerous and mysterious creatures of Russian mythology are just right - Tower was made on a similar system - titans, gremlins, nagas, etc. - not representatives of nations, and they fit perfectly into the game. In short, the mysterious Ves is a faction worthy of implementation. Although WOGgers are already making it, so you can just wait and see what comes out...

I have a proposal to make each race in two versions. Let me explain:
At the beginning you choose a side evil\good, then a race. Each race has both a good and an evil side (note, I am not saying dark and light, but specifically evil and good). Take several races and divide them into good and evil.

Yes, not a bad idea. But there are two nuances:

1) Necromancers and Mages, Good Rampart and Evil Dungeon already exist. Furthermore, one can consider that angels and humans are the good side, and demons are the evil side. It's just one race - humans and fallen angels. In general, some division already exists, quite harmonious and balanced, so a further division is not so necessary; moreover - it's a lot of work, and new factions still need to be introduced. In theory, they also need to be split into two sides. Moreover, some factions cannot be split - Neutral Elementals, Dungeon and others. Besides, how can demons be good?

I apologize for any possible harshness.

To the esteemed Ascended Saruman
1. Have you contacted "Rebirth"??? They are also working on something similar...
2. Check the thread with suggestions for new ideas... There is plenty of "Raw Material" there.
3. Remove the Kremlin!!! Leave everything else!!!
4. Defende-e-ers??? NO, NO and NO ONCE AGAIN!!! With all due respect to the Disciples, they are not "Heroes"
5. Gothic castle — TO THE NORTH!!!
6. 2gamehunter — regarding "Heroes 5 didn't outdo Heroes3" — NOT YET outdone!
7. There are too many races for now...

Respectfully, a critic and, concurrently, the moderator of this section, GM RPG, participant of project GI and "Amphibious Race", Tengro.