Posts from Round table

Well, it seems people have finally learned how to generate a map based on the seed.

But what is the connection between the map and the content of the utopia?

I went to h3tv and saw a post, in short - a "dad" from the chat pointed out all the artifacts from the Utopia map a minute before they were taken. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/136490038?t=3h39m57s

We've really hit rock bottom...
P.S. There's a brief discussion around 4:08:00.

I watched it, but I didn't quite understand how that's possible.

looked, but didn't quite understand, how is that even possible?

I think it's only possible if he was given a save file and he opened it, and couldn't resist writing it in the chat as a joke.
P.S. or this guy should start playing the lottery immediately!

The artwork in Utopia does not depend on the seed. The seed determines the map, but not the contents of the objects – they will be different each time you start the same map.

This guy has mentioned the contents of my map several times now, but this is the first time he's talked about the utopia. Before that, he was "guessing" the locations of warrior graves, and he was always right. Of course, no one gave him the save files; it's a mystery how he did it. He said he would write something, but he didn't. I doubt he's some seasoned hacker who broke into American servers and is now amusing himself with Heroes. Therefore, we can conclude that there's some kind of pattern in the game. We're waiting for comments from Sav, baratorch, or anyone else who understands this. But if this is accessible to everyone, then something needs to be changed. P.S. Regarding the main topic, there was a giveaway in the game for a premium item, and the prize was what would drop from the first utopia. Naturally, he didn't guess which utopia I would take first; he waited until I started taking a specific one and then predicted all the artifacts.

If this isn't just one big joke, then based on the card number, I've identified it – there aren't really any other options.

Here it is :)

If the map was generated and immediately launched in-game (as is always done), then the artifacts in Dragon Utopias and other things determined upon launching the map can be discovered via the seed. This requires certain reverse-engineering skills (more substantial than simply using artmoney), but the task cannot be called very difficult.

Most likely, the guessing happened exactly via the seed; I see no other reasonable options in terms of difficulty.

The seed could be removed from the map description; then restoring it from an open section of the map would be nearly impossible, and neither the client nor third parties would be able to find it. However, the host generating the map can still find the seed (if we assume they know how to restore a map via the seed, this is not a problem for them).

One could first generate the map, then exit the game and launch it from the saved generated maps. In that case, artifacts in Dragon Utopias would not depend on the seed. But still, restoring the layout is not very difficult for the host. Essentially, protecting against "pre-game" cheating by the host is practically impossible if we assume they possess certain reverse-engineering skills.

Added after 7 minutes
UPD: Although, perhaps the option of launching a saved generated map is impossible: the map is password-protected, and I don't know for sure if it can be launched online (it cannot in single player or the editor), I've never tried.

what have we come to – from “having fun with horses” to “reverse engineering”...

If the map was generated and immediately launched in-game (as is always done), then using the seed, one can find out the artifacts in Dragon Utopia and other things determined upon launching the map. This requires certain reverse-engineering skills (more substantial than simply using ArtMoney), but this task cannot be called very complex.

If it's possible to restore what was present during the initial generation via the seed, then there are no questions. That is exactly how it was. Although until today, I thought—as did Wicc—that only the map could be recreated, but not its contents. Even if you recreate the map, it might be possible to achieve the same generation through brute force, but that is too tedious.

In general, no one doubted that with a certain level of knowledge, there's no problem cracking a game like Heroes, where everything is located on your own computer.

The seed can be removed from the map description; then restoring it via an open section of the map would be almost impossible, and neither the client nor third parties would be able to find it. But the host generating the map can still find out the seed (if we assume they know how to restore a map from a seed, then this is not a problem for them).

If a person possesses such knowledge that they are capable of restoring a map via a seed and has the desire to know the layout, it would be easier for them to crack save passwords, which in my opinion is a simpler task. Not to mention that a dishonest player can always open a stream and find out everything from there.

In any case, I don't see any global problem. 99% of players do not possess the knowledge required to break protections while simultaneously possessing the desire and skill to crush others in Heroes.

What comforts me is that you can always catch someone in the act of starting in a strange way towards a specific object, or if everything keeps working out for them repeatedly from different positions. Besides, as I understand it, this requires a significant amount of time. Streams are our everything.


Added 45 minutes later
Hmm, it turns out that this viewer's message was actually related to this situation, and there even seems to be a solution to the problem; direct contact with the barterer is needed.


Added 6 minutes later
I wrote to him in a private message; let's see what he replies.

Yeah, well... Smart people play Heroes.))
But I think we should blame this guy for his research interest. After all, he did share the algorithm, and that might have helped strengthen the crypto-protection of save files.
And yes, I hope he didn't use his knowledge in real matches.

It's interesting to know what percentage of players cheated by saving without passwords back then, and what the percentage is now. How often are streams reported?

Ivy, don't you understand that you're asking a question to which the answer will either be given at the level of unverifiable personal insights, or this information is classified somewhere in intelligence agencies (the most advanced research on human psychology)?
At the level of personal insight, it's one-third in both cases (because at the level of personal insight, one-third of humanity is inherently deceitful, without going into details about how, why, and in what situations).

A third is a lot. Back when I was interested in this and looked at save files, I got the impression that 10-15% of players might use map hacks if they had the technical ability to do so. And about 5% would actively seek out this possibility (tinkering with the software, settings, etc.).