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Posts from TOURNAMENT TROUBLES!

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In reply to Kyle
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19 years ago
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Kyle;92751
1.4.7. Buy back fallen heroes in battle (not to be confused with heroes who fled; you can "dig up" enemy heroes).
(The last two points are explained as follows:
1. It is forbidden to hire a dismissed hero on the day of dismissal. On any other day, it is possible.
2. It is possible to hire a hero who fled (or bought his way out) on the same day.
3. It is forbidden to re-hire your own fallen hero.
4. You can hire a fallen enemy hero at any time.)

I agree with points 1-3, but I disagree with point 4.
I don't know how it is for official tournaments, but for online tournaments, it introduces a significant imbalance in the game.
Let me give an example from my own experience. :)
Once, my friend and I were playing, and there was a moment when his main hero died, and when I went into the tavern and saw his hero... my friend said that this was a bug (hiring a killed hero, regardless of who he belonged to) and that it shouldn't be used. And I agreed with him, and we made it a rule not to hire killed heroes, or any already leveled-up heroes (hero level greater than 1), with one exception: if it was your hero and you fled/bought your way out with him.

P.S. It just occurred to me that this bug can also be used in offline mode... for example, by killing a companion hero, you can then dig him up with a hero-digger. This will give you an advantage, and it won't matter that the hero might not be leveled up exactly as you wanted, but nevertheless, it is.
In reply to K0Lb@zzeR
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19 years ago
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K0Lb@zzeR;96242
I agree with points 1-3, but I disagree with point 4.
I don't know about official tournaments, but in online tournaments, this creates a huge imbalance in the game.
Let me give you an example from my own experience. :)
Once, my friend and I were playing, and there was a moment when his main hero died, and when I went to the tavern and saw his hero... my friend said that this was a bug (hiring a killed hero, regardless of who he belonged to) and that it shouldn't be used. And I agreed with him, and we made it a rule not to hire killed heroes, or any already leveled-up heroes (hero level greater than 1), with one exception: if it was your hero and you escaped/bribed with him.
:) That's usually how it happens. We were playing with a friend, he messed up and said it was a bug - I agreed and took it as a rule, and then I carried this rule into all sorts of tournaments. :) Your friend messed up in a battle and didn't realize when he should have fled or bribed. Therefore, he was solely responsible for the loss of the hero, and no one else. And you killed this hero and have every right to buy him if you find him. We had a rule in hot-seat games that if a player offers money for a bribe in a battle, the opponent MUST accept the money and has NO RIGHT to refuse. That's enough.
K0Lb@zzeR;96242

P.S. I just had a thought that this bug can also be used in offline mode... for example, by killing a computer hero, you can then dig him up with a hero-digger. :) This will give you an advantage, and it won't matter that the hero, for example, is not leveled up the way you wanted, but nevertheless, it is so.
What makes you think this is a bug?? :) Any player can kill a computer hero. In a battle, he may suffer significant losses. Artifacts and a killed hero are his fair reward; maybe he was specifically hunting for this computer hero. What's the bug? And especially if he also used shackles. Have you been asked here - why have shackles of war then?? :) I now agree with all the points regarding the ransom of escaped, bribed, and killed heroes.
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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IronAxe;96424
What makes you think this is a bug? :) The Computer has the right to kill any player's hero. In a battle, it can suffer significant losses. Artifacts and a killed hero are its fair reward; maybe it was specifically hunting for that hero. What's the bug? Especially if it also used shackles. You've already been asked here - why have shackles of war then? :) I agree with all the points now regarding the ransom for escaped, bought-out, and deceased heroes.

The bug is that in Heroes 3, you can re-purchase KILLED heroes, specifically KILLED ones. And I believe that it doesn't matter whose hero it was: YOURS, THE OPPONENT'S PLAYER'S, THE OPPONENT'S COMPUTER'S, THE ALLIED COMPUTER'S; they still cannot be bought back from the tavern, and the criterion for knowing which ones can be is: The hero in the tavern will no longer be level 1.

I gave an example because I thought it would be clearer, but it turned out it wasn't.
In reply to K0Lb@zzeR
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19 years ago
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K0Lb@zzeR;96455
The bug is that in Heroes 3, you can re-buy KILLED heroes, specifically KILLED ones. And I believe that it doesn't matter whose hero it was: YOURS, THE OPPONENT'S, THE OPPONENT'S AI, THE ALLY'S AI, they still cannot be bought back from the tavern, and the criterion by which you can find this out is: The hero in the tavern will no longer be level 1.
I gave an example because I thought it would be clearer, but it turned out that it wasn't.
Yes, in any version of Heroes, you can re-buy killed heroes, and this is not considered a bug, at least because if the developers considered it a bug, they would have fixed it long ago. I can also agree that it should be prohibited in online mode because one player goes ahead of another and may be luckier in buying back heroes than the other, but in offline mode, EVERYONE is in the same conditions; everyone has a "digger" - dig for heroes. Can't dig them up? Then there aren't any; hunt them, kill them, and dig them up afterward. Or you can ignore them and just pass through quickly. I think that in offline mode, prohibiting the buying back of killed heroes would be an unnecessary restriction.
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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IronAxe;96641
Yes, in any version of Heroes, you can buy back defeated heroes, and this isn't considered a bug, at least because if the developers thought it was a bug, they would have fixed it long ago. I can also agree that it should be prohibited in online play because one player might be ahead of another and might have better luck with buying back heroes than the other, but in offline mode, EVERYONE is in the same conditions; everyone has a shovel – dig up heroes. Can't dig them up? Then there aren't any; hunt them, kill them, and dig them up afterward. Or you can ignore them and just pass through quickly. I think that prohibiting buying back defeated heroes in offline mode would be unnecessary.
Anyway, I agree. After all, the hero isn't killed; their army is defeated. The developers did this intentionally, meaning it's not a bug at all. It's a different matter that when creating tournaments, rules are also created. And I believe that defeated (killed) heroes should not be used again!!!
In reply to Kamikaze
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19 years ago
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Kamikaze;96727

However, when creating tournaments, rules are also established. And I believe that defeated (killed) heroes should not be used again!!!
And even this isn't that critical. It just means that, with this restriction, completing some scenarios might become more difficult due to the unpredictable actions of a powerful AI opponent with artifacts, which should, in theory, make the game more interesting. Here's an idea for mapmakers: create a map with an aggressive AI opponent with artifacts and an army that is almost impossible to defeat. The player will have to solve two main tasks: fulfill the victory condition (but not by defeating everyone) and escape from the arrogant AI opponent.
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19 years ago
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10. Weakening non-upgraded neutral armies through repeated defeats.
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:) Please fix!!
10. Weakening non-upgraded neutral armies through repeated defeats, but only if they contain an upgraded unit
(you must completely destroy the upgraded unit during the first attack if you want to weaken these monsters in subsequent attacks)

If I have time, I will sign up later.
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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IronAxe;97910
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You must completely destroy an upgraded unit during its very first attack if you want to weaken these monsters in subsequent attacks.
You're quite amusing... :) And are you aware, sir, that after destroying an upgraded stack and then retreating, the problem isn't solved, because the next time you attack, there will again be an upgraded stack in that neutral army? And so on, endlessly. The presence of upgraded neutrals is determined by the coordinates of the unit. Iron, don't mislead people with the words "if you want to weaken these monsters in subsequent attacks"... You cannot weaken neutrals in this way in any subsequent attacks. This is the essence of the bug - you can completely (!) destroy a neutral unit by attacking it and then retreating. Because the upgraded stack will always be there, and the number will decrease by at least 1/7 of its size after each attack.

Otherwise, someone might come along, destroy the upgraded stack, retreat, and then, with a clear conscience, use this bug as a trick to make their life easier - because they were told to only destroy it during the first attack... But what about after that? :)
In reply to AmberSoler
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19 years ago
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AmberSoler;97920
The presence of scaled neutral creatures is determined by the coordinates of the unit.
That’s a fact. Sometimes, when creating a map, you have to move a lot of objects because of this, in order to trigger a battle with unscaled neutral creatures.
In reply to AmberSoler
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19 years ago
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AmberSoler;97920
You're so funny... :)
Yes, I remember that. You made me laugh a couple of times when you asked me to delete my posts, and then you made changes to the rules or deleted your own posts.
AmberSoler;97920

And are you aware, esteemed sir, that after destroying an upgraded stack and subsequently retreating, the problem is not solved because the next attack on this army of neutrals will again include an upgraded stack? And so on, ad infinitum. The presence of upgraded neutrals is determined by the coordinates of the unit. Iron, don't mislead people with the words "if you wish to weaken these monsters in subsequent attacks"... It is impossible to weaken neutrals in this way in any subsequent attacks. This is the essence of the bug - a unit of neutrals can be completely destroyed (!) by attacking it and retreating. Because the upgraded stack will always be there, and the number will decrease by at least 1/7 of the unit after each attack.
:smile19: Deleted :smile19: - don't mislead. You yourself messed everything up - here's your post from Blitz:
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You leave your army there, except for the wolf, which doesn't have a penalty on the stones, you free Dessa from the dungeon, and there's enough time to return to the Can to take one fly to take out thirty griffins with magic... We lose Fiura, but then Dessa takes the Can without losses... almost...
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This is about you weakening troops in the Conservatory in TWO turns. There are also neutrals there, and one slot is upgraded. If everything works differently in the Can, then this point of prohibition still needs to be described in detail. For example, even after your comment and taking into account your walkthrough :smile19: Deleted :smile19:, I don't understand. I naturally don't have time to read all the guides and documents on Heroes, and others may not have time either, so I read the rules carefully before tournaments, and there should be no ambiguities.
AmberSoler;97920

Otherwise, some smart guy will destroy the upgraded stack, retreat, and then, with a clear conscience, will use this bug-trick to make his life easier - because they said to destroy it only in the first attack... And then? :)
Such a smart guy has already been found - it's AmberSoler :p

Amber, what are you trying to portray me as some kind of idiot? Sometimes my results in the third game are better than yours, even though I'm not a specialist in the third game. Therefore, I think my level of play in the third game is more or less decent. But if even I don't understand your rules in the form they are presented, what can be said about others whose level of play is a little lower??? Describe the rules in detail so that even I, a simpleton, can understand them :)
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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to IronAxe: please refrain from personal attacks and watch your language.

Sincerely.
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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IronAxe;97969

Here we are talking about you weakening the troops in the conservatory in TWO attempts. There are also neutrals sitting there, and one slot is upgraded.
And you're saying it will disappear if you attack the conservatory and retreat? No, it won't disappear. The discussion is exclusively about neutral armies that stand on the map and guard artifacts, objects, passages between obstacles... Or just stand there... This has absolutely nothing to do with guarding various buildings (conservatory, Dwarf Cottage, etc.) in principle. So everything is fine. If you don't have the time or desire to figure this out yourself — don't project that onto others.
In reply to AmberSoler
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19 years ago
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AmberSoler;97974
And you want to say that it will disappear if you attack the conservatory and retreat? No, it won't disappear. We are talking exclusively about neutral armies that stand on the map and guard artifacts, objects, passages between obstacles... Or simply stand... This has absolutely nothing to do with guarding various buildings (conservatories, dwarf cottages, etc.) in principle. So everything is fine. If you don't have the time and desire to figure it out yourself - don't project that onto others.

It's interesting why I feel like supporting you Iron, but alas - I can't. AmberSoler is right!
P.S. and also: :smile19: Redacted :smile19:!
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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Gentlemen,
This is my final warning! No personal attacks!
Otherwise, I will take action.

Sincerely.
In reply to IronAxe
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19 years ago
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I sense a storm is brewing... :) Alright, we've chatted enough for now... I've realized one thing: no matter how clearly the rules are written, there will always be players who don't understand them. That's probably Murphy's Law in action. So, the rules remain as they are. If anything is unclear, feel free to ask questions in a private message, but I don't see the point in turning the rules into a constitution with a hundred clauses. It would only complicate things...

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