Posts from MMH5.5 - Heroes of Might and Magic 5.5

dredknight, 谢谢

Question: Did you make any changes to the spells in the mod? I loaded the map "not for the mod," and it requires breaking through huge stacks with dark magic (cyclops). I thought, now I'll just have the Berserker attack them... "spell only for friendly creatures"... wtf?

Yes, the spells have changed significantly – and Berserk has become a more powerful dark counterpart to the Smite spell.

Yes, the spells changed significantly – and Berserk became a more powerful dark analogue of the Smite spell.

Where can I read about what changed?

Question: Did you make any changes to the spells in the mod?

I loaded a map that "isn't for the mod," and there I need to break through huge stacks with dark magic (Cyclops). I thought, now I'll make them fight each other with a Berserker... but "the spell only works on friendly creatures"... wtf?

It seems to me that this is not correct, because that was the whole point:
enemies are behind a wall, you cast a spell on Rakshasa/Archangels/Dragons/Cyclops/Archdevils/Hydras/Erls, they start a massacre there, and you deal with the rest.
It seems to me that if you want to change it this way, you need another spell, "Frenzy" to replace the old one.
Of course, you can say that "Dominate" is good enough, but there are magical altars where you can't learn "Dominate," and here the damage was also increased, while the initiative decreased.

Added 3 minutes later
another thing, did you completely remove the super ability? Maybe you can bring it back, so that if a hero of a certain class levels up "along the true path."

In my opinion, the Berserker is a truly overpowered class (in its current form, without mods). I believe there are two ways to solve this problem: the first is the one that has already been implemented – make this class available only for your own faction, but increase the "attack" parameter more than it currently is. The second option (which might not be easy to implement, if it's even possible) is to remove the ability to dispel the Berserker buff by dispelling the enchantment.

dredknight thanks! ))

one little question: in general, the tent revives 3 times - has it always been this way, or is it a mod feature?

You are welcome! The tent ability can be used precisely three times. It used to be 6 times, but the heal was weak, so we increased the heal by a factor of 2 and reduced the casting to 3 times. This way, the tent has some meaningful impact in PvP and is not too overpowered.

The main issue with infinite casts is that in PvE, people often do not make the finishing blow in order to replenish all creatures.

Regarding Berserk.
Thanks for the feedback; we did not put any description regarding how it works now.

The main reason we made the change was that, however we nerfed the spell, it caused way too much disturbance for a level 4 spell. Here is an example, followed by some points.

Hero 1 casts Berserk on a unit of hero 2. Things that happen because of the spell:
- The unit will lose 1 (or 2 if expert) turns. Damage output is lost for hero 2.
- The unit will hit once (or twice if expert) hero 2's allied units, causing damage. This is what is expected from berserk, so this is the planned spell damage.
- The unit will get retaliated once (or twice). This is more damage caused by Berserk passively, where retaliation may come from creatures with breath attack and/or AOE hit abilities, thus exponentially increasing the damage of a 20-25 mana spell.
- By doing hits, the unit is also exhausting retaliations, which passively reduces hero 2's army damage output.
- Hero 2's army tactical composition is compromised.

Basically, there are so many things that even a puppet cannot excel at.
Also, keep in mind that berserk does not have a unit cap, so you can berserk as many units as you can in a row. Also, you can use berserk in conjunction with Puppet and Blind, which may halt more than half of hero 2's army.

Berserk does not require any tactical thought. You just start casting it on enemy units, and most of the time, it proves to be a good cast because enemy units are close to each other.

Try to compare it with other level 4 spells after month 5 of game time.
In basic terms, Tote Destruction usage is mediocre at that point.
Light spells can offer teleport and magical immunity, providing only a partial tactical advantage (1 unit is protected/moved to a better place; there are 6 more unaffected).

Summoning has Firewall and Summon Elements, which are both obsolete after month 2 due to low damage (Firewall) and a low summon count compared to the hero's army strength.

Also, in any game I have played against a Dark hero, he uses just 2 spells - Puppet and berserk.
There are 10 more spells in the dark school that should have their time on the battlefield, don't you think?

Due to hardcoded issues, the current state of berserk is what we managed to do without causing so much havoc on the battlefield. It gives a strong boost, but unless you are very aware of where your units are going, it may wreck your own army as well.

Okay...))) a mod for PvP battles.

Any game should have a good balance in PvP; this is an indicator of quality! PvE is a less demanding mode, so interesting PvE can be easily implemented while maintaining a relative balance in PvP. In some ways, balance even helps: uber-tactics like berserker can be too effective even for battles against AI. It's unfair that the computer isn't given a chance ;)

Forgot to mention that Berserk requires 0 spellpower to achieve full potential which even without all the things being said above is totally broken.

Hello.
I'll share my opinion about one change introduced by the mod:
If before the game was called "Heroes...", now I would call it "Troops under command...". Because the former importance of hero leveling, which was present in all parts of the game, has been lost in the mod (at least at the highest difficulty levels). Now the game focuses on brute force (the number of troops)... maximum hero leveling means little compared to the size of neutral armies on the map, etc.
Before, it was different: the main strength of the army was the Hero himself.

Hello Kiko! The answer is YES and NO at the same time. With the current changes, we lowered the power of Might heroes and increased the power of Magic heroes. In Heroes 5.5, Might heroes are more like fighters + supporters of the army. Magic heroes work more on their own because they cast magic more often (expert sorcery is 36%), and their magic power can be further amplified (Occultism tree). What you are talking about in the old Heroes 3 is an imbalance. Attack and Defense gave too much power to the heroes, so in just 10 levels, they could easily dominate the map. The same can happen in Heroes 5.5; you only need to be a much higher level. When talking about the army numbers, this has nothing to do with the heroes. The advanced ARMG made it possible to create larger maps with more castles and gradually increasing monster difficulty, which was totally lacking in Tribes of the East. Due to now having more castles and stronger monsters, everything else happens naturally. For example, having a big map means more castles and time to play before finding your opponent. More time and castles mean the possibility to develop more of them and get more creatures to overrun your enemy or fight stronger map creatures. The need for more creatures and development means you will need to find/gather/mine more resources. The way the game develops is now more similar to Starcraft. It is just as much about fighting as it is about economics.

The specifics of this mod should be taken into account, as it is oriented toward long games (up to 5 months), which is why "Attack and Defense gave too much power." Long game durations disrupt the original balance, so the changes in this mod restore it (in this context).

If the game used to be called "Heroes...", then now I would call it "Armies under the command of...". Because the former importance of hero leveling, which was present in all parts of the game, is lost in the mod (at least on the highest difficulty levels). Now the game focuses on mindless meat (the number of troops)... maxing out a hero means little compared to the size of neutral armies on the map, etc.

Leveling dynamics slow down significantly by the 5th month, so it is logical that the value of troops increases. If the game were oriented exclusively toward leveling, it would not be balanced beyond 1 month of play, as any conceptual build could be maxed out in that time. All durations above primarily serve the troops and the "meat".

The way the game develop is now more similar to Starcraft. It is just as much as fight as it comes to economics.

There is the highest dynamics typical for Starcraft, your comparison is more suited to slow RTS like Warcraft.
According to the concepts of StarCraft, the game would pass something like this:
- Week 1 - the opening, and economic development, capture several towns, capture map zones, and for rushes/harrasment, the main power is 1-3 tier units
- Week 2 - the midgame for the main fight, if both players survived after the opening, the main power is 4-5 tier units
- Week 3 - the endgame, if failed to break the enemy at the midgame, the main power is 6-7 tier units
Delaying the game in StarCraft is not encouraged, but in Warcraft, you can safely and slowly leveling on mobs, with "City Portal" and the warranty to no die by the opponent at this time.
In Starcraft you may lose at the opening easy by rush, because the game supports this, no giving any indulgence to the weaker player with far distance, giant maps with long search, or strong quards.
Starcraft is clearly the game about player vs player, from the very beginning to the end, not about player versus mobs, there is no time spent to defeating large numbers of mobs.

StarCraft is characterized by extremely high game dynamics; your comparison is more suited to a slow RTS like Warcraft.
By StarCraft concepts, the game would proceed roughly like this:
- Week 1 for openings and economic development, capturing several towns and the map, as well as rushes/harassment; units of tier 1-3 hold the main power
- Week 2 for the main struggle, if both players managed to survive the opening; units of tier 4-5 hold the main power
- Week 3 - the endgame, if the opponent could not be broken in week 2; units of tier 6-7 hold the main power
Dragging out the game is not encouraged in StarCraft, but in Warcraft, you can calmly and leisurely level up on mobs, having a "city portal" and a guarantee that you won't be killed in the meantime.
In StarCraft, you can lose to a rush early in the game, and the game mechanics fully support this, giving players no concessions such as great distances, huge maps where it's hard to find the opponent, or strong guards.
StarCraft is a game built entirely on player confrontation, from beginning to end; it is not a game against mobs, and no time is provided for destroying a large number of neutrals.

Magic heroes are more working on their own because they cast magic more often (expert sorcery is 36%) and their magic power can be further amplified (Occultism tree).

This sorcery is imbalanced at 4-6 weeks. Because by this time the armies is not enough much to resist such a magician, especially with 3% attack difference.
It is a good example of how the balance of 5 months is contrary to the balance of 2 months. It's impossible to have a good balance for the all players playing different styles, there is need to choice quick multiplayer, or slow multiplayer, not both. I recommend to add this feature (an orientation for long periods of the game + giant maps) to the description of the mod, since it is very important for the players to understand which style the game is support, quick or slow. Otherwise, playing at normal or quick maps, they will scream that the game is not balanced. Or playing maps typical to mod, complain of too many numerous neutrals.

Such sorcery is OP for durations of 4-6 weeks. Because at such durations, there aren't enough troops to withstand such a mage, especially with 3% attack.
This is a good example of how a balance built on 5 months of play contradicts a balance built on 2 months of play. It is impossible to satisfy players of all playstyles; you must choose either fast Multiplayer or slow, but not both at once. I would add this feature (orientation toward long game durations and large, saturated maps) to the mod description, as it is very important for players to have an idea of how dynamic or leisurely the game is. Otherwise, when playing normal and fast maps, they will scream that the game is unbalanced. Or when playing maps typical for the modification, they will complain about too many neutrals.

There is the highest dynamics typical for Starcraft, your comparison is more suited to slow RTS like Warcraft.
According to the concepts of StarCraft, the game would pass something like this:
- Week 1 - the opening, and economic development, capture several towns, capture map zones, and for rushes/harrasment, the main power is 1-3 tier units
- Week 2 - the midgame for the main fight, if both players survived after the opening, the main power is 4-5 tier units
- Week 3 - the endgame, if failed to break the enemy at the midgame, the main power is 6-7 tier units
Delaying the game in StarCraft is not encouraged, but in Warcraft, you can safely and slowly leveling on mobs, with "City Portal" and the warranty to no die by the opponent at this time.
In Starcraft you may lose at the opening easy by rush, because the game supports this, no giving any indulgence to the weaker player with far distance, giant maps with long search, or strong quards.
Starcraft is clearly the game about player vs player, from the very beginning to the end, not about player versus mobs, there is no time spent to defeating large numbers of mobs.

Sure, I made comparison on the base mechanics. Long term Starcraft strategy is really imbalanced. I remember in Terran vs Protos/Zerg, the Terran was always on the doomsday clock due to not being able to build huge armies as fast as the other players, and being very hard to control due to the larger number of special abilities compared to other races.

Warcraft is way better comparison.

This sorcery is imbalanced at 4-6 weeks. Because by this time the armies is not enough much to resist such a magician, especially with 3% attack difference.
It is a good example of how the balance of 5 months is contrary to the balance of 2 months. It's impossible to have a good balance for the all players playing different styles, there is need to choice quick multiplayer, or slow multiplayer, not both. I recommend to add this feature (an orientation for long periods of the game + giant maps) to the description of the mod, since it is very important for the players to understand which style the game is support, quick or slow. Otherwise, playing at normal or quick maps, they will scream that the game is not balanced. Or playing maps typical to mod, complain of too many numerous neutrals.

This kind of sorcery is OP at 4-6 weeks. Because at such timeframes there aren't enough troops to oppose such a mage, especially with 3% attack.
This is a good example of how balance built on 5 months of play contradicts balance built on 2 months of play. It is impossible to satisfy players of all playstyles; you have to choose either fast Multiplayer or slow, but not both at once. I would add this feature (orientation toward long game durations and large, dense maps) to the mod description, as it is very important for players to have an idea of how dynamic or leisurely the game is. Otherwise, playing on normal and fast maps, they will scream that the game is unbalanced. Or playing on typical mod maps, they will complain about too many neutrals.

Agreed, there are also some meta classes which require much longer time to develop. We had that issue where on small maps a Dungeon Magic hero will come on week 4 and armagedon everything. Here is a video of the siege dungeon did at week 4 against Might hero with specialization Magic resistance and advanced shatter destruction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVgy5q3Rp0

This video is 2 or 3 mod iterations before the current release. Since then a lot of improvement has been made such as:

1. Higher damage gap between advanced and expert level for Armageddon.
2. Higher mana requirements for most of the spells.
3. Shater penalty for the enemy hero was reversed to ToTe levels (-2 spell mastery levels for any 1-5 level spells of that school). We reduced the ability at the early stages of the mod on expert level because we thought it is too strong.
4. Reduced Occultism bonus for destruction from 6 SP at expert to 3 SP.

Also have in mind that when your enemy plays Magic hero you can pinpoint the magic school he uses before you have met (Academy elementalists start with Summoning and cant unlearn it, Dungeon with high spell power is mostly using destruction early game, Haven meta mages are always using dark and so on).
So when you pinpoint the school and get the appropriate Shatter you are more or less protected even early on. Yes, Shatters will slow down the map grinding but as you could see the Magic hero player have to sacrifice population buildings in order to get the Magic guild up to tier 5 early on (this video is not an example because dungeon was able to grind everything with an ease so got the necessary resources to go for dragons as well).

Also with the changes mentioned above mana is always an issue.

I am currently doing a brief guide that will pinpoint changes in all areas made by this mod. I will also mention the long duration of the game. Thanks for the feedback!

Sure, I made comparison on the base mechanics. Long term Starcraft strategy is really imbalanced. I remember in Terran vs Protos/Zerg, the Terran was always on the doomsday clock due to not being able to build huge armies as fast as the other players, and being very hard to control due to the larger number of special abilities compared to other races.

Don't agree as StarCraft 1 (and now 2) eSports spectator, but it isn't important.

So when you pinpoint the school and get the appropriate Shatter you are more or less protected even early on.

Yes, it can reduce the advantage of mage, but without multiplayer statistics (500+ games) the sufficiency of it is highly questionable. Also the mage can come on the 3 week, at the huge maps (standard sizes). I think you may ask Russian TE (Tournament Edition) tournament players to test your mod, TE players are very strong specialists of killing numerous mobs with high tempo. But those players can say that your mod is not balanced, not even starting to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmVgy5q3Rp0

This video is 2 or 3 mod iterations before the current release.

If you show this video to TE players, the first question will be: why the warlock has only 12 (not 20+) level at the 4 week? The second question will be: why the Dragons are not Black (upgraded)?

You may also find TE streams to see how they play, and how quickly they beat mobs and try to imagine how such players will play at your mod, at what time, with what army and with what heroes they will come to an opponent.