Posts from MMH5.5 - Heroes of Might and Magic 5.5

Shifting the berserk to a buff essentially duplicates the Light's Righteous Strike in the Dark faction. For this reason, I decided against such an implementation.

When it comes to such similarities, it's a matter of personal taste. If you like how it operates, leave it as is.
Our idea behind building the new berserk is actually what the whole new magic system is based on. Every school has a strong side and, to some extent, can cover a little bit of the others.

Summoning is based on summons but can also add some durability and some damage - raise dead (level 2) and shield (level 5), firewall (level 4).
Light focuses on durability spells but has some direct damage + crowd control - vengeance and word of light, teleport.
Dark focuses on crowd control and weakening but can also do some moderate damage + endurance - vampirism (level 5), world of the netherworld (level 4), decay (level 2), the new Berserk (tier 3).
Destruction - Besides the heavy damage, it also adds some minor weakening and crowd control effects - fire/ice/lighting perks, Deep Freeze effect.

Note: All spell levels refer to the 5.5 mod. "Minor" or "moderate" refer to the spell effect of a spell compared to a similar one from a school that leads in that aspect. For example:

When talking about moderate damage in the Summoning school, let's take the Firewall spell (level 4) as an example. I compare it to destruction spells from level 4.

Some values to compare with:
Destruction:
Meteor Shower (level 4): 20 + 20*Spellpower damage, 4x4 area of effect.
Chain lightning (level 4): 32 + 32*Spellpower initial damage (60 + 60 all 4 hops damage).

Summoning:
Firewall - (level 4): 20 + 20*Spellpower damage. 1x3 area of effect.

Comparing them, it's actually the same damage, but the firewall is harder to cast due to lower range.

If we do a similar comparison for crowd control spells in the Dark school, it's obvious (having in mind the previous comments in the thread about pros and cons) that it is a much better spell than any of the level 5s from other schools.

With the new approach, Berserk is a tier 3 spell with a significant damage boost but low tactical benefit (you lose control of your unit, and it will probably be exposed for a number of hits from the enemy factions). Here is a comparison with Righteous Might and a hero with 20 spellpower.

Expert berserk damage base + 150% + 1%*SP = 150 + 20 = 170% bonus damage for 1 round (I am disregarding the bug we can't fix).

Righteous Might - (8 + 0.15*SP)*3.33% = (8 + 3)*3.33% = 11*3.33% = 36.63% bonus damage for 2 + 0.1*SP rounds = 2 + 2 = 4 rounds.

So, a unit with berserk will do 170% bonus damage, and a unit with Righteous Might will get 36.63%*4 = 146% bonus damage, but the berserk unit will suffer the penalty of being caught off guard.

I cannot prove to you that the strategic penalty is worth a 24% damage increase, as we came to the conclusion that any change is worthy if we see that it is not abused by players (overpowered) nor disregarded by them (useless).

In order to get rid of the personal bias factor, both players always play the final PvP battle from both sides of the battlefield. The stronger your hero is, the harder you will be punished 50% of the games. So, in the end, both sides feel the bitter taste of their own strategy, and eventually, players make a mutual decision on what strategy/skill/spell is strong or weak or just as good as it should be.

I would like to ask for another change, important for siege, namely the ability to customize the damage done by shooting towers. Now it is too small damage.

Expert berserk damage base + 150% + 1%*SP = 150 +20 = 170% bonus damage for 1 round (I am disregarding the bug we can't fix).
Righteous Might - (8 +0.15*SP)*3.33% = (8 + 3)*3.33% = 11*3.33% = 36.63% bonus damage for 2 + 0.1*SP rounds = 2 + 2 = 4 rounds.

270% damage is too much. 170% one-time bonus cannot be compared with 37*4, as these 4 are stretched in time (except if you made 3.33% modifier per unit difference of offence / defence, the real gain will be below 3%). I advise you then it is 200% damage (do not understand why there is, in principle, to make a symbolic dependence on SP), it will be much more than a bonus from nerfed Righteous Might. Just for comparison, in my mod the situation is: Expert Righteous Might = (+14) * 10% ~ 140% bonus damage on the SP / 4 = 1.5 rounds with SP = 6 (this is the average for the middle of the game). 10% of the difference step by stat (instead of 5%) Do berserk buff even more powerful in my case it is simply impossible :) Originally, Expert Righteous Might = (+12) * 5% ~ 50% bonus damage (exactly 50 but not 60) which like the original berserk buff ~3% per SP (lower than 50%). If you are interested in the reason why

If you made 3.33% modifier per unit difference of attack / protection, the real gain will be below 3%

I suggest you consider the case of 2 (for the +9 bonus): 1) The difference of 0 + 9 ~ + 30% damage (norm) 2) the difference of 10 + 9 ~ 1.63 / 1.33 = 1.23 ~ + 23% damage (significantly lower) Rarely 9 will give it a 30% bonus, typically lower. 270% damage - it's too much. 170% one-time bonus can not be compared with the 37 * 4, as these 4 are stretched in time (except if you made 3.33% modifier per unit difference of offence / defence, the real gain will be below 3%). I advise you then it is 200% damage (do not understand why there is, in principle, to make a symbolic dependence on SP), it will be much more than a bonus from nerfed Righteous Might. Just for comparison, in my mod the situation is: Expert Righteous Might = (+14) * 10% ~ 140% bonus damage on the SP / 4 = 1.5 rounds with SP = 6 (this is the average for the middle of the game). 10% of the difference step by stat (instead of 5%) Do berserk buff even more powerful in my case it is simply impossible :) Originally, Expert Righteous Might = (+12) * 5% ~ 50% bonus damage (exactly 50 but not 60) which like the original berserk buff ~3% per SP (lower than 50%). If you are interested in the reason why

If you made 3.33% modifier per unit difference of attack / protection, the real gain will be below 3%

I suggest you consider the case of 2 (for the +9 bonus): 1) The difference of 0 + 9 ~ + 30% damage (norm) 2) the difference of 10 + 9 ~ 1.63 / 1.33 = 1.23 ~ + 23% damage (significantly lower) Rarely 9 will give it a 30% bonus, typically lower. P.S. Interesting comparison, you buffs / debuffs actually been nerfed in half relative to the original, obviously with an eye on the huge army of 3+ months. I buffs / debuffs contrary doubled strengthened relative to the original (but nerf mass perks from the general to the square 4x4), obviously with an eye for 2-3 weeks Army. You have, in principle, much weaker spells than the standard (buffs / debuffs are nerfed, destructive does not cause high damage over a huge armies). Therefore, imbalance Berserk plays much difference, like the Phantom Forces.

P.S. Interesting comparison, your buffs/debuffs have actually been nerfed by half compared to the original, obviously with an eye on the huge army of 3+ months. My buffs/debuffs, on the contrary, have been doubled in strength compared to the original (but mass perks from the general have been nerfed to a square 4x4), obviously with an eye on a 2-3 week army.

You have, in principle, much weaker spells than the standard (buffs/debuffs are nerfed, destructive spells don't cause high damage against huge armies). Therefore, the imbalance of Berserk makes a much bigger difference, like with Phantom Forces.

Basically, this sums up all the differences between 5.5 and EWA.
Now I understand why the numbers in EWA are so high.

At first sight, it looks like destruction does rubbish damage, but keep in mind that in 5.5, heroes can get higher spellpower stats than in the original Heroes. I have seen heroes with 60+ SP. Also, destruction is usually combined with any of these skills:
- Occultism - increases SP and lowers enemy magic resistance. Also gives empowered spells.
- Sorcery - on an expert hero, it gets -36% ATB. The hero can also get the "Mark of the Wizard" perk.
- Luck - the perk for luck damage.

Any combination of the skills above increases destruction efficiency exponentially. A magic hero is capable of combining spell luck perk + Mark of the Sorcerer luck + empowered spells. Add in expert sorcery, and imagine what kind of mage you get!

I have gathered a couple of replays that are about the same battle but with different outcomes depending on the strategy.

The battle is Inferno vs. Dungeon, somewhere around month 6. Inferno is Might and has only dark, Dungeon is Magic, focusing on Summoning and Destruction.

In those replays, Berserk and Imps' mana drain are forbidden. I will explain later with an example. Dungeon utilizes Destruction magic most of the time.

Inferno wins over dungeon - these 2 replays show Inferno winning

Dungeon wins over Inferno - In these 2 replays, Dungeon changes strategy and wins over Inferno.

Bonus footage - this is just a fun replay where Berserk and Imp drain mana is allowed.

Notes: The footage above is from an older version of the mod where Imps drain mana, gating, and Luck are not yet fully balanced.

Added 17 minutes ago

I would like to ask for another change, regarding the importance of sieges, namely the ability to customize the damage done by shooting towers. Now it is too small damage.

That is also on the to-do list. Deflactor's efforts to find the hex address have not been successful so far.

You have more 7-tier creatures (89 Black Dragons) on the field than WGE has 1-tier creatures.
Your mod deserves the "Epic" prefix, not EWA :)

EWA (Epic War Age) - a collection of mods
WGE (Wargame Edition) - my global mod that changes the game mechanics

I have nothing to do with Epic War Age :)

The replays clearly show that the simplest units deal more damage than a warlock with all its buffed spells. That's why I'm talking about a significant nerf to chaos magic on such meat.

Your 7-tier creatures on the field (89 Black Dragons) are more numerous than in WGE 1-tier creatures.
Your mod has more rights for "Epic" prefix than EWA :)

EWA (Epic War Age) - a global collection of mods
WGE (Wargame Edition) - my global mod, changes the mechanics of the game, re-design all units and others

In Epic War Age I have nothing to do :)

By replays clearly it shows that the most basic units deals more damage than warlock's reinforced spells. That's why I'm talking about a significant nerf destructive magic on such meat.

I am sorry for misunderstanding :).

I will give an example of multiplayer mods in which tournaments are actively held.

In RTA (Random Tactical Arena) and TE (Tournament Edition), typical armies are 10 times smaller than yours. A typical SpellPower for a warlock is around 20, with 30 considered a very good spread (in TE it's higher, reaching up to 40). This means that Chaos magic works at least three times better than in the 6th month of the game :)

I will give an example of multiplayer mods, which are actively conducted tournaments.

The RTA (Random Tactical Arena) and TE (Tournament Edition) typical army is 10 times less than you show. Typical SpellPower warlock is 20, 30 is considered very good (in TE it is higher and reaches up to 40). This means that the destructive magic works at least three times better than in the 6 month game :)

dredknight,Yeah that's what I had in mind,but Haven is my favorite castle.I completely agree with you about the fact that the arrows are very strong with this ability.Would you return "No range penalty" for me personally, in a separate file,if I knew how to do it ,I would not ask you :)

@Nargott I agree with you. I will follow up tomorrow with another subject to elaborate.

@Garpun44 we dont do requests because everyone wants their own version of the game but because you asked nicely here you go.

old_crossbowman.
After you have installed the 5.5 mod. put this file in DATA folder. Launch the game and enjoy!

dredknight,Anyway thank you for the mod)

1) increasing the number of classes to 24 characters (that's what I use it for)

1. This is not done in the exe file. It is Lua code and can be found in MMH55-Index\scripts\H55-Core.lua
Hero definitions start between lines 1190 and 1217. I suspect there are a few preparations for it, but I don't know where they happen. Look around.

The EXE file provides support; without it, the game simply crashes when accessing the new classes. In other words, the original EXE doesn't work; this was precisely the reason I used the modified EXE file from the RPE project.

The new EXE supports it; without it, the game just crashes when entering the new classes. The original EXE does not work with 24 classes; it was precisely the reason for which I used a modified EXE file from the RPE project.

I see.

Regarding the long term development in MMH55 there is one thing I have not shared here. Thanks to the Advanced RMG now we have what Vanilla game lacked - XL, XXL and XXXL maps. Now heroes 5 feels more like heroes 3 because there is so much more to explore. Also ARMG allows for zone placement and different zone level of difficulty (which is something that Heroes 3 World Tournament did in a similar way).

Combine this with and adjusted building prices (integrated Alciblades mod) and what you get is a setup that allows long term player development.

For example it is common around month 4-5 player to have almost no resources at all. This is not due to trading them for gold but because the player is forced to develop castles and dwellings in order to get as much units as possible (or to build more magic guilds for more magic).
Furthermore, this forces the player not only to play for artifacts and hero strength but to focus on making stronger economics that can maintain maximum army gain each week.

From the experience I have had there were more than a few games I simply won not because my hero had stronger artefacts or better skills but because I focused more on getting mines and ravaging resource sites. Eventually my army overrun the enemy high-tech hero.

In addition to all this, there are a number of new adventure map sites that further add to either stronger economics, highter creature gain or/and sites which give ultimate artefacts (For example you can find Armagedon's blade in multiplayer if you complete the quest for it).

There are also 3 ways to get the Grail.
- through digging
- by combining all Regalia artifacts (the one that when equipped and hero is in town contribute to high population, you need to get 8 of them to merge them into the grail).
- Fight for it - there is a special place where you fight really huge army . If the player win over it he will get a rare treasure.
Note: Size of the army and rarity of the prize is relative to map size. For example if you find such place and win the battle on small map, the player will receive one of the less worthy pieces of Regalia instead of the grail.

Is it possible to somehow influence the size of objects? I would very much like to bring the game on the map to the scale of Heroes 3, so that the map is more schematic, towns don't take up half the screen, and more objects fit on the screen. If you simply zoom the camera, small objects (heroes, neutrals, artifacts, resources) suffer.

Is it possible to somehow influence the size of objects? I'd like to bring the game on the map to the scale of Heroes 3 where map was more schematic, the town did not take on half of the screen, and more objects placed on the screen. Simply zoom camera, it affects small objects which suffer (heroes, neutrals, artifacts, resources).

So far we haven't found a way.

@satkha, can the NCF editor be compatible with MMH55?

Of course it can! :smile25:

Now MMH55_NCF.zip is updated and available for download!

Now MMH55_NCF.zip updated and available for downloading!

Of course! :smile25:

Now MMH55_NCF.zip is updated and available for download!

:smile03: