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Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.Auto-translated
5 remaining bases are not a problem at all; there are usually enough of them.
The point is that it's not 5, but 4. Because 2 are class-specific. One is purely class-specific, and the other is a class-specific skill for all races.Nargott
The problem is that I don't see any benefit to such a change, other than simply creating an additional class distinction. I see this as multiplying entities unnecessarily. It would be different if it had some fundamental strategic interest.
There is a difference. One class allows you to strengthen your own troops, while the second class allows you to gain additional troops with some new features. At the same time, you can naturally introduce perks in the general skills that will be available to one class and not to another. And all this within the framework of one race. And, of course, the stats are also different.Nargott
I don't like it either. But such a solution is close to simply cutting off the skills of the "General" in essence, because only 8-9 skills remain instead of 12 for the reduced Orc. It would be better to make the "General" skills useful by adding combat effects to them, so that the other races would envy the Orcs, and not the other way around.
But why "cut them off"? You can give magic to the Orc (suddenly). And there are such tasty things in it as Seals and Weaknesses, for example. That is, in total, "Darkness Suppression" (as a perk) + a couple of Darkness perks + Darkness itself with a Seal and Weakness can completely crush the opponent's Darkness. Well, and, as far as I remember, the Orc is still deprived in terms of "Weakening Blow," because the effectiveness of "Feeble" on attack depends on the level of Darkness, and the Orc cannot take Darkness. But this is just a side note... I'm still thinking about it...
The point is that it's not 5, but 4. Because 2 are class-specific. One is purely class-specific, the other is a general class skill for the race.
I understand, there was a typo. 4 slots is not a problem.
There is a difference. One class allows you to enhance your native troops, while the second class allows you to gain additional troops with some new features. At the same time, of course, you can introduce perks in the general skills that will be available to one class and not to another. And all this within the framework of one race. And the stats are, of course, also different.
So, I'm saying that significant differences are ensured even without additional entities. Have you seen the scheme? The chances differ for 3 out of 4 stats, and 3 out of 6 non-racial skills (with a chance of 8% or higher) differ. There are hardly more differences than similarities. Against this background, I specifically refused to introduce additional differences, such as class-unique perks or special class connections, because this is an excess that complicates the memorization of the skill wheel. Personally, I can now remember the skill wheel for all classes even without practical gameplay, and yet, after many years of practical gameplay, I still haven't learned any of the wheels in the original game.
But why "cut it off"? You can give magic to the Orc (surprisingly). And there are such tasty things in it as Seals and Weaknesses, for example. That is, in total, Diminishing Darkness (as a perk) + a couple of Darkness perks + Darkness itself with a Seal and Weakness can completely destroy the opponent's Darkness.
Magic won't technically work for the Orc.
Well, and as far as I remember, the Orc is still deprived in terms of Weakening Strike, because the effectiveness of Weakness on attack depends on the level of Darkness, and the Orc cannot take Darkness.
Weakness here gives -8/10/12/14 to attack, which is equivalent to -16/20/24/28 in the original, so it works perfectly even without the skill.
Added 59 minutes ago P.S. I'm probably not very open to new ideas right now; I'm more interested in the practical implementation of what has already been conceived. For example: - how to ensure that there is an opportunity for an ultimate expansion on the map - in 24466 (second city on day 2, 3-4 cities on day 4, 5-6 cities on day 6) - how to ensure that it is possible to counter this with a rush on the first week - how to ensure reconnaissance of the opponent's actions on the first week, including being able to detect the above-mentioned rush and expansion - how to ensure the ability to defend against any rushes without artificial restrictions (like "restart on encounter" or "ban on red rush") - how to ensure the division of troops between heroes - how to ensure proper development of new captured cities as full-fledged bases - how to ensure that the player can complete a turn in 3 minutes + only conduct 1 battle manually, while not feeling a lack of time - how to ensure that the first clashes begin on the first week, but the game ends only on the 2nd-3rd - how to ensure a series of interesting clashes instead of 1 "final battle" with the possibility of quickly replenishing competitive troops, going into an exchange, and not accumulating - how to ensure maximum interest in development, given that the breakthrough itself takes a back seat (80% of battles are auto-battles) etc., etc. That is, purely practical questions, not of the type "what new thing should we come up with."
A class skill does not solve any of the pressing problems, neither general nor specific (like how to make a racial elf work), so I am not very enthusiastic about such ideas.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
I understand, it's a typo. 4 slots aren't a problem.
But for me, that's too few. Let me clarify right away – I'm looking at it from the perspective of the original game. Simply put, in some specifically planned builds, there are skill trees that are worth taking only for one specific perk, without leveling up the entire tree (Elf with Lightning, Fireball, and Master of Flames). There are skill trees that are only needed for themselves, without perks. In other words, you can level up the entire tree with perks, but it won't give you such a significant increase in effectiveness. And sometimes you just end up with an extra skill tree. Therefore, a larger number of skill trees provides greater variety.Nargott
Against this background, I specifically refrained from introducing additional differences, such as class-unique perks or special class connections, because this is an excess that complicates memorizing the skill tree. Personally, I can now remember the skill tree for all classes even without playing, while after many years of practical play, I still haven't learned a single skill tree in the original game.
The skill tree can be in the game, but it's not necessary to learn it. But the 3.0-3.1 principle, when almost all perks were given to all races, doesn't appeal to me. In 2.0, there was no such mixing of perks. It was possible to highlight the hero's specialization by giving them perks that are not characteristic of the race. That is, no one from the race has it and cannot have it, but a specific hero does. For example, Chain Lightning was the prerogative of only Warlocks. And suddenly, for example, Sveyya, as a mega-caster of the Dwarf race, could have it. This is a rough example, but it roughly explains the situation.Nargott
Magic technically won't work for Orcs.
Um... There are 2 nuances here: 1. I was talking about magic simply as a skill tree, if we adhere to the lore that Orcs organically cannot handle magic. That is, magic is taken simply for the perks, and other bonuses are given for the skill tree (SP, Knowledge, or something else, like Leadership for Necromancers in many mods). 2. If we remember that Orcs do have casters (Shamans) and set out to create a caster hero, then magic does work for Orcs. An example in the replay is casting Haste, Bless, and a battle cry in one package.Nargott
Weakness here gives -8/10/12/14 to attack, which is equivalent to -16/20/24/28 in the original, thus it works perfectly even without the skill.
Still, there's a 75% difference between -8 without the skill and -14 on Expert difficulty.Nargott
I'm probably not very open to new ideas right now; I'm more interested in the practical implementation of what has already been conceived.
I'm kind of the opposite – I'm looking for new ideas and ways to implement them. Then there will be a process of removing the unnecessary.
And how useful would two sworn enemies be? Also, would it be possible to implement something like this: Avenger level 1 - has one unit from each faction in the list of sworn enemies. Avenger level 2 - has two units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies. Avenger level 3 - has three units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies. Avenger level 4 - has four units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies.
In other words, the list is expanded as the racial skill is leveled up (it can be determined who specifically will be added to the list when leveling up, or it can be done randomly).
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
Or will it be possible to implement it like this: Avenger level 1 - one unit from each faction in the list of sworn enemies Avenger level 2 - two units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies Avenger level 3 - three units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies Avenger level 4 - four units from each faction in the list of sworn enemies
The list is set during the hero description stage in the game's resources.
In theory, it can be assumed that this trick can be done using scripts, but it is a rather complex process. The principle is as follows: Four copies of the hero are created in the resources, with 1, 2, 3, and 4 enemies in the sworn enemies list. At the start of the game, copy 1 is used. When the hero reaches level 2, all parameters (stats, skills, spells, experience, army) are "read" from the hero. The hero is replaced with its copy with 2 sworn enemies. All the "read" parameters of copy 1 are given to him. And so on.
...and if you remove the ranger guild from the city, the reset will never happen.
Added 2 hours 28 minutes later
Okay, let's say we pre-define sworn enemies for each ranger (I still suggest three from each race, excluding neutrals and possibly units from the Forest Alliance itself), and this gives us "Avenger Novice," but then what will levels 2, 3, and 4 in the Avenger skill give?
Maybe we could do this:
Avenger 1: The list of sworn enemies includes three units from each race.
Avenger 2: The hero's direct attack is enhanced (deadly shot).
Avenger 3: The chance of dealing double damage to a sworn enemy increases by 10% (forest cunning).
Avenger 4: All Forest Alliance creatures in the hero's army gain +1 to maximum damage.
It's just not very interesting if there are just bonuses like this.
Nargott
The amulet could give an additional +2 attack (i.e., I didn't write it down, +0/+2/+4/+6).
In the proposed version, it shows that the Avenger skill itself becomes stronger, and if the number of abilities within the "Avenger" skill is reduced, we could somehow use underutilized skills by modifying them (for example, the useless skills "Ashes' Favor" and "Barbarian Luck")
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален, Блистает там воздушностью прогалин. Но между кедров, полных тишиной, Расщелина по склону ниспадала. О, никогда под бледною луной Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
This is not a very common case of a Ranger with mini-artifacts.
In the original game, where players start with only one city, this might be the case. SRD
Avenger 2 - increases the hero's direct attack (deadly shot) Avenger 3 - the chance of dealing double damage to a sworn enemy increases by 10% (forest cunning) Avenger 4 - all creatures of the forest alliance in the hero's army receive +1 to maximum damage
1) This is an existing perk. 2) This is an existing perk. 3) This is an existing perk. So, you're suggesting "improving the racial bonus" by reducing the perks, but that won't work.
and if, at the same time, the number of skills within the "avenger" skill is reduced, then perhaps some underutilized skills can be used
Then it would be logical not to remove the perks, but to come up with other effects for the racial bonus. Attack is a basic element that is always relevant for elves, as all 3 classes suffer from low damage (10% chance for the attack parameter). And with investments in luck (+1/+2/+3 to attack) and the racial bonus (+0/+2/+4), the elf will be able to keep the attack at a level of 40%.
In general, of the acceptable solutions, I prefer the simplest ones. Once they are implemented, then we can think about improving them by replacing them with more exotic bonuses, having a live comparison of the effects. Undoubtedly, the most interesting solution, if possible, would be a flexible change of the racial bonus, or an elven ritual that allows you to spend 25% of your turn to change sworn enemies. To do this, it will be necessary to somehow remove the guild from the city and simulate the hero touching it, and upon exit, return the hero to the old place on the map.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
Generally, I prefer the simplest solutions, and once they are implemented, we can think about improving them by replacing them with more exotic bonuses, having a live comparison of their effects. Undoubtedly, the most interesting solution, assuming it is possible, would be a flexible change of racial or elven rituals, allowing you to spend 25% of your turn to change your sworn enemies. To do this, you would need to somehow remove the guild from the city and simulate the hero touching it, and upon exiting, return the hero to the old location on the map.
I agree more with this than with passively assigning sworn enemy units. This is not an RTS.
The point is clear. It's not worth removing a building just for some dubious "improvement."
Nothing will fundamentally change in the build order if you replace this building with a bonus +10% to sworn enemies. With the current scheme, only one of these two buildings has a place, in any case. Out of 30 slots, 7 are for dwellings, 7 for upgrades, 3 for forts, 4 for money, 5 for the guild, and the rest – 4 auxiliary buildings: tavern, forge, market, and racial building. Although, of course, the +10% effect is extremely weak and will have to be supplemented with some +1 to attack.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition. Сайт проекта - пока неактивен Автор Асимметричных шахмат
Although, of course, the +10% effect is quite weak and needs to be supplemented with some +1 to attack.
Can't this effect be adjusted? Giving double bonuses is still more chaotic. If the bonus cannot be changed, it's probably better to remove the building that provides an additional 10% altogether.
DirtyLiar
