HeroesWorld
  • Log in
  • Create account
  • Mode
    Interface scale

    Loads video thumbnails from YouTube, which lets it see your IP address. Off until you turn it on, and remembered in this browser only.

Posts from Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition - Tactical Edition.

Mods: Tribes of the East, Hammers of Fate and Vanilla
4.5 (8 ratings)
Open
Do you like the WarGame Edition global mod?
179 voters
Single choice Public votes
Sign in to participate in this poll.
Poll results will be visible after you vote or when the poll closes.
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline DirtyLiar
Registered:
Posts: 103
#484
Auto-translated
Nargott
And how does this work? Why would I give up 3 * 8 = 24 low-level units in exchange for 1-3 targeted units (depending on the racial skill level)? I don't see any motivation to level up the racial skill, and that's the problem with this approach.
In the early game, there is no motivation.
In large-scale battles, I would gladly replace peasants/archers/swordsmen with cavalry and monks against someone like Axel.
0
⚖️
0
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#485
Auto-translated
Such an idea wouldn't work well with a large number of cities and a multi-racial army composition; having all races' Tier 1-3 units available to each faction is much better.
Apparently, there's nothing better than the flexible ability to change sworn enemies directly on the battlefield by spending part of a turn (ritual), although the technical feasibility is still a question.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline DirtyLiar
Registered:
Posts: 103
#486
Auto-translated
Yes, I also have doubts about the technical implementation. But even with such an implementation, the racial bonus won't work in the early game, since you need to build a structure to choose sworn enemies, and it takes quite a while to build that structure. That's what's frustrating – an entire base and a perk that don't work for a long time. The motivation to change sworn enemies could be "strengthening" the army through special perks. As far as I remember, you have implemented such perks – summoning Manticores, for example. In The Restoration of Erathia, Necromancers get Death Knights. In the end, if I know that the opponent will have a достаточно dangerous stack of high-tier units, then the motivation to find it on the map and set it as a sworn enemy is quite significant.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline SRD
Registered:
Posts: 1,772
#487
Auto-translated
If you make everyone your sworn enemy, that's cheating (especially with a barrage of enchanted arrows), but if you only do it for the first 3 levels, it limits your choices, which is also not ideal.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
0
⚖️
0
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#488
Auto-translated
As a backup solution, if it's technically impossible to implement something else, we could use the option of having tiers 1-3 for the "Vow" skill as the basic skill, and provide other types of bonuses for advanced and master levels, similar to the Orcs' "Distortion" skill (in this mod). For example, these could be standard bonuses like +0/+1/+2 to initiative or +0/+2/+4 to attack. I think we should implement this first, and then try other solutions. In that case, however, the "Vengeance Guild" would have to be replaced with a racial bonus of +10%. P.S. Even better, if different heroes have different tiers for the "Vow" skill, it would be difficult to counter all the Elves at once by refusing tiers 1-3.
DirtyLiar
Ultimately, if I know that the opponent will have a достаточно dangerous stack of high-tier units, then the motivation to find that specific stack on the map and put it on the "Vow" list is quite significant.
This approach doesn't work for me because there will be many armies, and focusing on just one is less effective. Imagine: the opponent has 2-3 producing cities of different races, you specialize the "Venger" hero against cavalry, and another army of wyverns kills you.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline SRD
Registered:
Posts: 1,772
#489
Auto-translated
Nargott
As a backup solution, if it's not technically feasible to implement something else, we could use the option of having tiers 1-3 for the "Sworn Enemy" skill as the base skill, and provide other types of bonuses for advanced and master levels, similar to the Orcs' "Distortion" (in this mod). For example, these could be standard bonuses like +0/+1/+2 to initiative or +0/+2/+4 to attack. I think we should implement this first, and then try other solutions. In that case, however, the "Avenger Guild" would have to be replaced with a racial bonus of +10%.

P.S. And even better, if different heroes have different tiers for their "Sworn Enemy" skill, it would be difficult to counter all the Elves at once by avoiding tiers 1-3.

This approach doesn't work for me because there will be many armies, and specializing in countering just one type is less effective. Imagine: the opponent has 2-3 producing cities of different races, you specialize the "Avenger" against cavalry, but another army with wyverns defeats you.
That is, units of levels 4, 5, 6, and 7 will never be able to become "Sworn Enemies" - this is not very good.
And in general, if you initially assign "Sworn Enemies" to each Elf individually, it could turn out that the choice of hero comes down not to choosing based on specialization, but based on pre-defined "Sworn Enemies" that cannot be changed later. For example, if I'm playing against a Necromancer, I naturally won't be interested in a hero whose "Sworn Enemies" are zombies and necrolizards; I'd rather take the one whose "Sworn Enemies" are, for example, a vampire, a lich, and a skeleton - you'll agree, there's a good chance of dealing double damage to key units, which is more valuable than the hero's specialization bonus (besides, it might turn out that a specific hero's specialization and "Sworn Enemies" are more interesting than another hero's). If we go down this path, we need to distribute the "Sworn Enemies" so that these sets are equivalent - for example, one hero has a lich, ghoul, and skeleton among his "Sworn Enemies" from the undead, another has a vampire, necrolizard, and zombie, and a third has a lich, necrolizard, wraith, etc.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
0
⚖️
0
In reply to SRD
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#490
Auto-translated
SRD
That is, units of levels 4, 5, 6, and 7 will never be able to become sworn enemies – this is not very good. And in general, if you initially assign sworn enemies to each elf individually, it could turn out that the choice of a hero comes down not to choosing based on specialization, but based on pre-defined sworn enemies that cannot be changed later. For example, if I'm playing against a Necromancer, I naturally won't be interested in a hero whose sworn enemies are zombies and Necrodrakes; I'd rather take the one whose sworn enemies include, for example, a Vampire, a Lich, and a Skeleton – you'll agree, there's a good chance of dealing double damage to key units, which is a more valuable bonus than the hero's specialization (besides, it could turn out that a specific hero has a specialization and sworn enemies that are more interesting than another hero). If you go down this path, you need to distribute the sworn enemies so that these sets are equivalent – for example, one hero has a Lich, a Death Knight, and a Skeleton among his sworn enemies; another has a Vampire, a Necrodrake, and a Zombie; and a third has a Lich, a Necrodrake, a Wraith, etc.
Choosing based on specialization? That's strange and illogical. In WGE, the hero's class and starting skills are much more important, because there are more of them, while there is only one specialization. The same applies to the choice of sworn enemies – it's an important thing, but only one of many. The example with the undead also doesn't work in WGE, because you can't assume in advance that zombies are weaker than skeletons, or that Necrodrakes are weaker than Liches or Vampires; it all depends on the timing of the game, the chosen build for development, and the emphasis on certain units. Plus, you can't forget about the other factions in this match, because Tier 2 isn't just zombies, but also archers, dancers, etc. And Necrodrakes, if you choose a build that focuses on them, can be built in the first week along with a farm; by day 8, there may already be 3 of them, and by day 9 – 4 (after an upgrade). Most other factions build Tier 7 in the second week, so by days 8-9, there will only be 1 Titan (for example). And Reapers, which I didn't even mention, are potentially the strongest unit in the game (except, perhaps, for human Knights with training), because, unlike the original, they deal high damage, have cool enhanced abilities, and have an increased growth rate. But they are built late (in the second week), so they only start to play a key role from the third week, in the endgame. That is, the specifics of WGE are many armies of a composition that is unknown in advance, neither quantitatively nor qualitatively. At least, I will try to make sure that this is the case, and not a monotonous, uniform army composition.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline SRD
Registered:
Posts: 1,772
#491
Auto-translated
Well, within the scope of the game, probably yes – I considered this point without taking into account other aspects of the game. So, how do you ultimately plan to implement this?
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
0
⚖️
0
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#492
Auto-translated
I think I'll go with 2 enchanted tires for the basic skill (3 is too much), and +0/2/4 to attack for developing the racial skill.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline SRD
Registered:
Posts: 1,772
#493
Auto-translated
2 is clearly not enough – I would suggest 4 instead of 3. And what will the fourth level give (with the Amulet of Mastery)?
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
0
⚖️
0
In reply to SRD
User Avatar
Offline DirtyLiar
Registered:
Posts: 103
#494
Auto-translated
The first two automatically selected spells also provide significant assistance in the early game.
Especially considering the increased direct attack of the hero (as I understand it, this is implemented in WGE) and the effects of Storm and Death Blow, the hero deals quite effective damage.

The amulet won't provide any benefit if you don't later change the automatic selection of the first two spells to specific units of higher tiers, following the classic scheme.
0
⚖️
0
In reply to DirtyLiar
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#495
Auto-translated
The amulet can provide an additional +2 attack (i.e., I didn't finish writing it, +0/+2/+4/+6).
The amulet's strength isn't in how much it enhances the racial bonus, but in the fact that it grants a level 4 skill, opening up the possibility of leveling up 4 perks and thus, Special Abilities.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline DirtyLiar
Registered:
Posts: 103
#496
Auto-translated
Well, in the original version, a pendant is not needed to obtain СА, because СА comes with its own separate description and can fill the skill slot even if there is no space available. Similarly, if you specify 4 perks instead of 3 for a skill using STANDART_PERK, all 4 will be applied. In general, I have an idea to make classic racial skills not primary but secondary. The main skills would depend on the class (warrior or mage). For example, for the Union: Combat class – Ranger. Main skill – something like “combat training,” which enhances the hero's combat parameters. And as a bonus, something related to movement (after all, Rangers are scouts and wanderers). Magical class – Druid. Main skill – something like “knowledge of Nature.” Summons magical creatures into the army. Fairies, nymphs, satyrs, unicorns, pegasi, and similar beings. Of course, in order to summon high-tier units, the hero must be well developed. The Avenger would already be a secondary class-racial skill. But since one skill occupies a slot, 6 base slots might not be enough... By the way, I also don’t really like the idea of Dampening as separate skills. I am thinking about how they can be implemented as perks within a single skill. For example, such a perk as "Strength against Magic" is provided by the skill. Level 1 – basic effect of the perk. Then you can increase the HP of units by 5/10%. And the perks within it – Dampening. With adjustment of the effect. Something like this:
Attachments 1
1 file attached • Total size: 40.8 KB
0
⚖️
0
In reply to Nargott
User Avatar
Offline SRD
Registered:
Posts: 1,772
#497
Auto-translated
Nargott
The amulet can provide an additional +2 attack (i.e., I didn't finish writing it, +0/+2/+4/+6)
The point of the amulet isn't how much it enhances the racial skill, but that it grants level 4 in the skill, opening up the possibility to learn 4 perks and thus, Special Abilities.
Has the issue of what happens to the mastery amulet after obtaining Special Abilities been resolved? If we get the amulet, we get the fourth level in the racial skill, after which we can upgrade Special Abilities, and the amulet can be safely passed on to another hero and the same can be done – this is nonsense, because then you can upgrade Special Abilities for all heroes, and I think it should be done so that when the 4th level is reached in the racial skill, the amulet disappears immediately.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
0
⚖️
0
User Avatar
Offline Nargott
Registered:
Posts: 1,592
#498
Auto-translated
As far as I remember, a solution was proposed to "dissolve" the amulet when upgrading the Special Ability. That is, the amulet disappears, but the bonus remains. The Special Ability was specifically designed in WOGE to require a level 4 racial unit and an amulet, because that makes sense. Otherwise, a +1 skill level wouldn't be considered a great artifact for its price, and the situation with 4 perks on 3 slots is perceived as a bug. In addition, with this approach, the Special Ability is not tied to any other rigid upgrade or a high level of 20+, it can be combined with any upgrade (the requirements are only for the artifact and 3 racial perks).

Added 42 minutes ago
DirtyLiar
In general, I have an idea to make the classic racial skills not the main ones, but secondary. The main skills will depend on the class (warrior or mage). For example, for the Union:
Combat class - Ranger. Main skill - some kind of "combat training" that enhances the hero's combat parameters. And as a bonus, something for movement (Rangers are still scouts and wanderers).
Magic class - Druid. Main skill - something like "Knowledge of Nature." Summons magical creatures to the army. Fairies, nymphs, satyrs, unicorns, pegasi, and other similar creatures. Of course, in order to summon high-tier units, the hero must be well-developed.
The class-racial skill, Avenger, would then be secondary.
But, since one skill is already in use, 6 base skills will be too few...
The remaining 5 base skills are not a problem at all; they are usually enough. The problem is that I don't see any benefit to such a change, other than simply creating an additional class distinction. I perceive this as multiplying entities unnecessarily. It would be different if it had some fundamental strategic interest. For example, the very presence of classes allows you to play the same race in different styles, through different skill profiles and stat distribution. In TE, transmutation and mentoring are used for the same purposes. If that wasn't enough, then we could think about new, additional tools.
DirtyLiar
By the way, I also don't really like the idea of Debuffs as separate skills. I think about how they can be implemented as perks within one skill.
For example, such a perk as "Strength against Magic" is implemented by a skill. Level 1 - basic effect of the perk. Then you can increase the HP of units by 5/10%. And the perks in it - Debuffs. With effect adjustment.
I don't like it either. But such a solution is close to simply cutting off the debuff skills, because only 8-9 skills remain instead of 12 for the Orc. It is better to make the debuff skills useful by adding combat effects to them, so that the other races would envy the Orcs, and not vice versa.
The first 2 tiers immediately by default also greatly help in the initial rush.
Not the first 2 tiers, but any 2 tiers, depending on the specific hero. In general, the situation is complex. From the point of view of the "Cursed" skill, 2 looks good, but from the point of view of the perks of the "Cursed" skill - 3. The rush itself is not a serious argument, because it should take a back seat as the most routine and least interesting element of the strategy. Therefore, it is important to ensure that the perks have a worthy application in key moments - battles against another player.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
0
⚖️
0