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Posts from Harmony - Troop Symmetry

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In reply to Nargott
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And what do people, elves, demons, etc. have to do with it?

Added 7 minutes later
As I understand it, the idea is to tie an element to a race. I just wanted to separate the damage calculation by elements. I don't see much point in tying it to a faction – this applies to chaos, but for example, it's completely irrelevant for this knight.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
In reply to SRD
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SRD
P.S: The phrase "does not depend on magic" would be better expressed as "slightly depends on magic."


Yes, that is a more accurate expression. Different races will likely have different levels of dependence on magic.
In reply to atlant108
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The calculation will definitely not depend on the hero's race.
I'm interested in your opinion on the spell calculation – the formulas are in the archive.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
In reply to SRD
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SRD
The Guardian Angel will be enhanced in the future.
I've already changed the skill tree about 10 times – I can't seem to finalize what and where it should be :D. The version on the first page is very old; I'll post a newer version later. For now, here's the calculation for some Chaos spells. I liked Nargott's idea of differentiating the principles of magic calculation by element, and I've done just that:

Excellent option. I suggest we stick with it. Colleagues, we need to start with something, otherwise we'll be discussing it for another year. Questions:
1) Why specifically the Guardian Angel?
2) What is the latest, most up-to-date version of the skill tree for Humans, Necromancers, and others?
3) How much can Nargott's calculation idea affect the balance? It's important not to overdo it, as otherwise we could ruin the whole game.
4) Are there any plans to add new skills, abilities, or specializations to the skill tree?
5) What do you think about the idea of increasing the number of skills from 3 to 4? That is, there will be 24 instead of 18. Perhaps, in this case, it will be necessary to add new skills to the game. If necessary, we can increase the maximum Hero level to 42 or 45 (this is just my suggestion).
6) Question for Nargott. Tell me, what do you envision as the final version of the skill tree?

Colleagues, I look forward to your answers and comments.
In reply to atlant108
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I don't see the point in increasing the number of skill levels and the number of abilities from 3 to 4 – in general, if we don't take into account the deliberate lengthening of the game, I don't remember ever being able to fill all the free skill and ability slots (personally, I only did this in campaigns, and not even in all of them), and in Multiplayer, even reaching level 25 is a rare occurrence.
Tonight, I will upload the final version of the ability wheels.
The Human special ability is very weak and not impressive enough to be a special ability, but the Guardian Angel is a good thing, but it needs to be strengthened – we need to think about how to do this, taking into account the limitations imposed by our capabilities. In my opinion, we need to somehow extend the effect of the Guardian Angel to all units, and not just one (compare, for example, the power of the special ability of the Dwarves or the Elves – this is what really deserves to be called a special ability).
Chaos – as I said before, it is impossible to tie an element to a race if we are talking not about a school of magic of a specific element, but specifically about magic of destruction and the elements within it.

Added 3 hours 37 minutes later
I have updated the ability wheels on the first page (second message)
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
In reply to SRD
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SRD
What do humans, elves, demons, etc., have to do with it?

Added 7 minutes ago
As I understand it, the idea is to tie an element to a race. I just wanted to separate the damage calculation by elements. I don't see much point in tying it to a Faction – this applies to Chaos, but for example, it’s completely irrelevant for this Knight.
It's not relevant for Humans; both Water and Air are good at low levels (although Air is closer to the lore). But when you consider skill level + high/low magic, it becomes noticeable. When it's disadvantageous for Demons to use Fire, and conversely, advantageous for Undead.

Added 1 minute ago
atlant108
6) Question for Nargott. What final version of the skills wheel do you envision?
My vision of the wheel can be found in the Wargame Edition topic.
Specifically, posts 1 and 2
The full version (not as a wheel) is here

Added 11 minutes ago
Guardian Angel – Human Special Unit in WGE (although initially Mentor was planned as the SU). There can be no talk of any additional effects in combat (technically). But in WGE, the ability works stronger because there is much less "meat," effectively raising an entire stack. Plus, the hero also learns resurrection. And after each battle, losses are reduced by half (the idea is borrowed from the racial human in G4).
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
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Автор Асимметричных шахмат
In reply to Nargott
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Nargott
It's not relevant for Humans; both water and air spells are decent at low levels. But the skill level and high/low magic affinity make a noticeable difference. When it's not advantageous for demons to use fire, and it is advantageous for undead.
Oh, I understand – I'll keep that in mind.
Nargott

Guardian Angel is a Human special ability in Heroes of Might and Magic (although initially, Mentor was planned as the special ability). There can be no talk of any additional effects in combat (technically). But in Heroes of Might and Magic, the ability works stronger because there is much less "meat," effectively raising an entire stack. Plus, the hero also learns resurrection. And after each battle, losses are reduced by half (the idea was borrowed from the racial Human ability in Heroes of Might and Magic IV).
So, is this change to the Guardian Angel skill already ready?
If it's ready, please share it – I'll add it to my mod (I'll be very grateful). By the way, did you want to create the "Elven Ritual" ability – is it ready?
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
In reply to Nargott
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Nargott
Guardian Angel - a special ability for the Human hero in Heroes of Might and Magic (although initially it was planned as a mentor). There can be no talk of any additional effects in battle (technically).
Why not? It could be - in the form of some kind of buff. For example, a built-in Regeneration. By the way, the Orc's special ability is simply "useless" because it just adds Fury points, which are also added by cities and Blood Memory. In my old modding experiments, I made Pure Fury a regular perk (naturally, reducing the Fury gain from 500 to 200). And I used General Support as the special ability. Which, indeed, looks creepy, especially under Krag.
In reply to SRD
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SRD
Okay, I understand – I’ll keep that in mind.

So, is the change to the Guardian Angel skill already ready?
If it is, please share it – I’ll add it to my mod (I’ll be very grateful). By the way, did you want to implement the “Elven Ritual” ability – is it ready?
Not yet, it’s still just on paper; there’s no implementation yet.

Added 1 minute ago
DirtyLiar
Why can’t it? It can – in the form of some kind of buff. For example, as a built-in Regeneration.

By the way, the Orc’s special ability is simply “useless” because it just adds Fury points, which are also added by cities and Blood Memory. In my old modding experiments, I made Pure Fury a regular perk (naturally, reducing the Fury gain from 500 to 200). And I used General Support as the Orc’s special ability. Which, indeed, looks creepy, especially under Krag.
Built-in regeneration? General Support? It’s unlikely that such tricks will work in Multiplayer (combat scripts don’t work).
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
In reply to Nargott
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Nargott
No, it's just on paper for now; there's no implementation yet.
Are you talking about "Elven Ritual," as I understand it? And has the guardian angel been reworked, or is that also just on paper?
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...
In reply to Nargott
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Nargott
Built-in regeneration? General Support? It's unlikely that such tricks will work in multiplayer (combat scripts don't work).
This isn't a combat script. It's a buff embedded in the skill.
For example, General Support looks like this:

SKILLTYPE_SPECIAL_PERK
HERO_CLASS_BARBARIAN

SPELL_EFFECT_POWERFULL_BLOW


As a result, the entire army of a hero with this skill starts the battle with General Support applied to it.

Thus, you can apply almost all spells, as well as many specialization and skill effects, to skills.
It's amusing to see General Antimagic (applied at the basic level) on the entire Orc army.

P.S. Replay with General Support.
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In reply to Nargott
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Nargott
It’s not relevant for Humans; both water and air are decent low-level spells (although air is closer to the lore). But when it comes to skill gradation + high/low magic, you can definitely feel the difference. When using fire becomes disadvantageous for demons, but advantageous for undead.

Added after 1 minute

My vision of the wheel is in the Wargame Edition topic.
Specifically, posts 1 and 2
In the full version (not as a wheel) here

Added after 11 minutes
Guardian Angel is the Human special unit in WGE (although initially Mentor was planned as the special unit). There can be no talk of any additional effects in combat (technically). But in WGE, the ability works stronger because there is much less "meat," effectively raising an entire stack. Plus, the hero also learns resurrection. And after each battle, losses are halved (the idea was borrowed from the racial human in G4).

Yes, it’s impressive. I note that you have done a very large amount of work.
You probably spent a long time working on skills and abilities. We need to start gradually implementing all this
In reply to SRD
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SRD
Are you referring to "Elven Ritual," as I understand it? And has the guardian angel been reworked, or is it still just on paper?
No, this is about all the unusual skills/perks, considering they appeared relatively recently and haven't had time to be fully implemented yet.

Added 2 minutes later
DirtyLiar
This isn't a combat script. It's a buff built into the skill.
That's good news. I haven't started actively using these kinds of technologies yet; I thought they had less potential.
Разработчик Heroes 5.5 WarGame Edition.
Сайт проекта - пока неактивен
Автор Асимметричных шахмат
In reply to SRD
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SRD
I don't see the point in increasing the number of skill levels and the number of abilities from 3 to 4 – in general, if we don't consider the deliberate lengthening of the game, I don't remember ever being able to fill all the free skill and ability slots (personally, I only did this in campaigns, and not even in all of them), and in multiplayer, even reaching level 25 is a rare occurrence.

Colleague, when you complete a single-player map or scenario at the Hero level, and even with neutral armies, you often finish the game at levels 35-39. I'm saying this based on my personal experience. In particular, our team is currently testing single-player maps: scenarios, campaigns (plan-150), and I can say that, for the most part, we finish the walkthrough from level 32, and sometimes even level 39.
It often happens that after level 32, there are no free slots, as they are all occupied by skills and abilities. And it becomes uninteresting to play – you level up, but you don't get a new skill.
Therefore, if an alternative progression option is offered with an increase in the number of free slots, for example, from 5 to 8, we will be happy to implement it.
In reply to atlant108
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Instead of one racial and five generally available skills, we could have one racial and six generally available skills (we'll need to redesign the hero window, perhaps putting the racial skill on one tab and the generally available skills on another). Adding one more generally available skill would already be a plus – six upgrade levels is probably enough; we shouldn't increase it further, and we don't need to change the skill wheel, of course.
... И древний лес, роскошен и печален,
Блистает там воздушностью прогалин.
Но между кедров, полных тишиной,
Расщелина по склону ниспадала.
О, никогда под бледною луной
Так пышен не был тот уют лесной...

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