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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.
Does the ability to provide a prize pool imply competence in matters of rules and impartiality in controversial situations?
A participant's willingness to compete for a prize pool implies agreement with the competence of the organizers and judges, whose names were known before the start of the tournament. However, this is also true for tournaments without a prize pool.
skd
10 years ago
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If you appeal to a court of appeals without going through the first instance, your claim will not be considered.
But...
The rules for conducting Tournaments stipulate that a player can immediately apply to the Arbitration Committee (AK) to resolve a disputed situation.
In the regulations for the "Mirrors" Tournament, it is stated that the Tournament is held according to the Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments.
Paragraph 6 of Section 5 of these rules states:
"In case of a dispute during a match, participants must contact the Organizer, the Tournament Judge or the AK and provide all necessary information: daily saves of the match, ICQ logs, screenshots, etc."
Therefore, changes should be made to these rules – in the event of a disputed situation, a player has the right to contact the tournament organizer or judges to make an appropriate decision. If the player disagrees with the decision made, they have the right to appeal to the AK to challenge it.
However, as things stand now, Hellight acted within the established rules; however, this does not mean that the AK should rule in his favor.
Toganash, did you even read what was written above? It has already been clarified that this is not a problem with my software, but rather a consequence of changes in the HD mod patches. Well, he got it off his chest, added his two cents about how Hell is bad and ready to win (or not lose) by any means.
Baratorch
4.100 RC8 -> 4.100 RC9 (25.01.2016)
[!] The tweak < Sys.ReduceCpuUsage > has been renamed to < Sys.CPU.ReduceUsage > and disabled by default. (Therefore, the tweak will be disabled upon update, which will eliminate lag in the interface on some PCs).
This confirms one thing: the problem also lies in the configuration of certain machines and the specific way the HD program works. Therefore, I didn't say that this is exactly why I don't accept your claims for a replay. Don't take things out of context: Toganash
...However, this does not mean that Hell acted in this way. Given his experience, this is unlikely.
Nevertheless, I am saying again that we cannot rule out deliberate actions by the streamer either. Based on my personal experience, such lags appear from the very beginning of the game, but in your case, as I understand it, only at the end, which may indicate overheating of the hardware. Here, I am trying to say that neither can be said with certainty, and we shouldn't draw conclusions based on just one version. It could have simply turned out that Baratorch's statement coincided with your situation. This isn't trolling; it's an appeal to look at things comprehensively. HellLighT
p.s. We didn't turn to the judges because The_ will only allow a collective decision from AK...
Dirty_Player
In fact, this is an important point. As you know, AK makes decisions "at the speed of light," so first of all, you really need to contact the tournament judges. Regarding this situation, we will make a decision. But in the future, submissions to AK without a judge's decision will not be accepted.
I agree.
I don't quite understand what relevance the fact has: that someone will be satisfied? There are tournament rules, they must be followed. Submitting an application implies agreement with them. Logically, the regulations state that AK makes decisions after the Organizers have made a decision and the other participants disagree with it. At the very least, you should have informed the organizers about your decision and actions as a sign of respect. HellLighT
...considering that the tournament host and also its judge uses examples from personal games to resolve the issue (so-called bias), how can any appeals be considered? And by the way, another host-judge, let's not point fingers at the man in the hat... suggested that I click faster "and then everything would be fine."
As an example, the following is meant:HellLighT
Fourthly: This relates to consistency. In a game against Hell, I had some hardware problems that caused crashes. However, in the final battle of one of the games, there was a crash that wasn't my fault; the internet lagged (possibly mine), and Hell said that he didn't care, and if this happened again, he would automatically declare me the loser. The situation is very similar. His opponent could say that he doesn't care about his problem and that he should look for flaws in his own software. In this case, it wouldn't be The who says this, but Hell himself.
Yes, this was an example from my personal experience because I don't watch your streams as often and don't follow your games, so I couldn't provide others, but I would gladly do so if I knew. But here, I see manipulation. It lies in the fact that my example is a real case from our game, which you don't deny, meaning it's a fact. A fact cannot be biased. It is presented as is, without changes. Thus, it speaks to your double standard regarding identical events.
I don't understand what exactly Redwait is unhappy with in his statement. In my opinion, he is consistent. He disagreed with your claims and expressed his refusal by saying "click faster." I assume that he meant the fact that the main problem is the time pressure that you put yourself under, not a possible bug. He expressed himself incorrectly for a judge, but fairly in his decision. HellLighT
p.p.s. I am not asking for anything to be repeated; all I ask is to load the autosave (on which the game ended) and press the horse button (M) on the main hero so that he runs where he has the green path set.
"I'm not asking for anything, but I am" - this goes into the quote collection. Regarding "putting the horse in the right place and pressing the corresponding button," how can we put you in the same panicked state as before? There isn't a special button for that. I'm writing this to explain the subtlety of the moment.Noom
Given that there is a recording of the turn, replaying it while adding the placement of the hero at the planned point poses no problems. I don't see any subtle nuance here...
Noom
Also, I don't see any reason for the player not to contact the tournament judges as the first instance if their opinion doesn't seem authoritative to him for one reason or another. What's the point of creating unnecessary bureaucracy if an appeal will be submitted anyway?
I suggest removing organizers from the number of judges they organize tournaments with – there’s no need to create extra bureaucracy and take on non-existent authority. That makes sense. I would like to hear AK's opinion.
I have nothing to add to the following correspondence except for two points: the logic of skd's arguments, and also: it doesn't matter whether the tournament has a prize pool or not. The status of the organizer does not change because of this and remains the same, but in the latter case, it might require participants to pay more attention to the processes and procedures within the tournament. Sanin
To ignore the opinion of the organizer who collected the prize fund, but continue to claim money? :rolleyes:
Noom
Does the ability to provide a prize fund imply competence in matters of rules and impartiality in controversial situations?
Sanin
The participant's willingness to claim the prize fund implies agreement with the competence of the organizers and judges whose names were known before the start of the tournament. However, this is true for tournaments without a prize fund as well.
skd
If you appeal to an appellate instance court bypassing the first instance, the lawsuit will not be considered.
But.
The rules for conducting tournaments stipulate that a player can contact the AK directly to resolve a contentious situation.
In the regulations of the "Mirrors" tournament, it is stated - The tournament is held according to the Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments.
Paragraph 6 of Section 5 of these rules states: "In case of a dispute during a game, participants must contact the Organizer, Tournament Judge or AK and present all necessary information: daily saves of the game, ICQ logs, screenshots, etc."
In connection with this, changes should be made to these rules - in the event of a controversial situation, the player has the right to contact the organizer or the tournament judges to make an appropriate decision. In case of disagreement with the decision made, the player has the right to appeal to the AK for its review.
As it stands now, Hellight acted within the established rules; however, this does not mean that AK should rule in his favor.
The_
10 years ago
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p.s. We didn't appeal to the judges because The_ will only agree to a collective decision by AK...
I agree.
I didn't quite understand what relevance the fact has: that someone will be satisfied? There is a tournament regulation, and it needs to be followed. Submitting an application implies agreement with it. It logically follows from the regulation that AK makes decisions after the Organizers have made a decision and the other participants disagree with it. At the very least, you should have informed the organizers about your decision and actions as a sign of respect.
I didn't understand something else. First, it turned out that I was supposedly the one who unilaterally initiated the OХ and the game up to 123. Now it turns out that I said not to appeal to the judges... In fact, Hellight wrote to me, saying that in order not to wait for a decision from AK for a month, if I have 1-2 trusted people who could review the replay and make a decision, the proposal itself is obviously not the most appropriate, so I replied that since a controversial situation has arisen, let's appeal to the competent authorities.
Basically, I have to address another problem that occurred during a match of Mirror against The_, this time due to an unclear technical malfunction. The game was on a tight timer, with several errors and a lack of time. After using the "Hit and Run" ability, I was supposed to attack with my "Mama" unit on the enemy's "Ze" unit, but things didn't go as planned. The core of the problem is that in the recording of my stream, you can see that I click to open the spellbook, but nothing happens, and the timer continues to tick for 7 seconds. I didn't have time to attack, but I could have blocked his path. I even clicked on the tile, but I couldn't click a second time because it wasn't a glitch with my hardware... the timer was running, and the stream was working normally. I request that the turn be completed on the tile where I was supposed to move. Here's the link to the stream: http://www.twitch.tv/helllight111/v/37121688, timestamp 10:23:54. (Warning: Contains profanity)
The Arbitration Committee has reviewed this situation. The decision is as follows: load the autosave, allow Mephala to be moved to the tile that HellLighT was trying to click at the end of his turn, but couldn't due to lag, caused by the lag resulting from the HD mod update. All members of the Arbitration Committee participated in the discussion. 6 out of 7 voted in favor: Pit for LM, Nitro, Redwhait, Mizrael, злой_романтик, Dirty_Player. 1 out of 7 voted against: =Stinger=
P.S.: Further direct appeals to the Arbitration Committee, bypassing the judges, will not be considered.
P.P.S.: This decision is not a precedent for considering other episodes related to lag on a player's computer.
The Arbitration Committee reviewed this situation. The decision is as follows: load the autosave, allow the player to move Mephala to the point that HellLight was trying to click at the end of his turn, but didn't manage to due to lag, caused by the lag resulting from the HD mod update. All members of the Arbitration Committee participated in the discussion. 6 out of 7 voted in favor: Pit for LM, Nitro, Redwhait, Mizrael, злой_романтик, Dirty_Player. 1 out of 7 voted against: =Stinger=
P.S.: Further direct appeals to the Arbitration Committee, bypassing the judges, will not be accepted for review.
Of course, I sincerely apologize, but weren't the players in the same conditions? Would it be fair for me to ask to replay all the turns, since I also experienced "lag"? I'm just amazed.
No, that's not correct. If you had contacted us during the lag, then yes, but if you decided to continue the game, it means you were satisfied with everything.
5 points, well done :). If the champion can't, AK will help :D
5 points, well done :). If the champion can't, AK will help :D
Those are quite harsh words for someone who made a similar request to clarify the situation in the previous game; however, I addressed it promptly and didn't agree to any delays.
The book was opened with the mouse, not the keyboard, probably because it's faster, and he didn't seem nervous at all. Now, place the horse, and with one, two, three, press the prepared icon – it's all the same. We have the best AK; does anyone else think it resembles Brussels?
They opened the book with the mouse, not the keyboard, probably because it's faster, and he didn't seem nervous at all. Now, place the horse, and with one, two, three, press the prepared icon – it's all the same. We have the best AK; does it remind anyone else of Brussels?
Actually, I liked the fact that Dirty wrote a unanimous decision the most. I wonder how many more "true" stories there will be?
The decision was indeed unanimous. Some members of the Arbitration Committee changed their initial opinion during the discussion.
What are you talking about? Well, we'll see. Maybe Dirty will reconsider and correct his post before the Arbitration Committee's credibility falls even lower.