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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In reply to =Lizard=
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I remember once, during a live broadcast of your tournament's draw, you told the respected Dark to go to hell. He forgave you then. Here, it's a similar story; you need to watch what you say, because it won't lead to anything good, and sooner or later, someone will hold you accountable for your words. Remember what I said.
As for the game, this idiot was shouting all over Facebook that there was no chance, and even calculated on some move that the next move would be almost the last for the opponent, but in the end, he completely messed up. And then all you could hear was swearing and "BUG, BUG," and he ran to the AK to complain.
For such a situation, the score should be 2-2, or even 3-2. Those who watched Kobryn's video will understand.
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whether it was cheating or not, after watching the recording, I think it wasn't (or an Oscar for acting). what happened specifically in that situation at 123-124 was not Heroes 3 gameplay, and how can you judge that? 1. If they had saved the game as soon as they saw the red hero coming out of the portal and then let the blue player make their last move, if the blue player didn't have "critical scouting" that could have changed the outcome of the game (e.g., Knowledge Spell/Imprisonment), then... 2. And what if the red player hadn't even entered the portal, but had just moved in front of it? Would it be the same, but within the rules? That is, these 100-200 moves (entering the portal) could invalidate the game. P.S. It's not worth blaming just one person; both players made mutually exclusive "mistakes" (although one is much more significant than the other, but, according to Murphy's Law, such a coincidence happened at that very moment). Somehow, the mechanics of interrupting the Overlord's Horde (OH) need to be refined, without giving the blue player bonus information, and so that the blue player's move that will be replayed when the OH is interrupted is recorded (to clarify certain nuances in difficult, controversial situations – is this recording necessary?). And the mechanics should be changed so that after the OH, there is no battle with the opponent for at least one day. But even here, you can cheat, just like with restarting the game upon meeting – not attacking, but only in the case of restarting upon meeting – that's a trick, but with the OH, it's a violation, or something. Perhaps the condition for interrupting the OH should be that the opponent's heroes are in the same zone, regardless of whether it's in the same turn.
In reply to scorp
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SZOТ. Your opinions have nothing to do with the reality around you. As for the topic: if you think this is unfair, that it's a bug, then you've chosen the wrong topic: write to the Heroes of Might and Magic developers. No one from the AK is among them, as far as I know. And what you did is called exploiting. I saw it in the stream and I'm telling you that right now.


In reply to Heroin_HP
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Heroin_HP
I remember, you once, during a live broadcast of your own tournament's draw, told the respected Dark to go to hell, and he forgave you then. Here, it's a similar story, you need to control yourself, this won't lead to anything good, sooner or later you'll be held accountable for your words, you'll remember what I said.
As for the game, this idiot was shouting all over Facebook that there was no chance, he even calculated on some turn that the opponent's next move would be almost his last, and in the end, he completely messed up, and then all you could hear was swearing and "BUG, BUG," and he ran to AK to complain.
For such a situation, the score should be 2-2, or even 3-2, those who watched Kobryno's video will understand.
Firstly, my stream is my stream, there can be emotions and much more on it, if you don't like it, don't watch. During the stream, I can, of course, make mistakes, both in tactical reasoning and in the manner of expression, that's my business, the stream is unofficial, it's essentially for me and only me, I don't get anything out of it.
Secondly, choose the form of expression.
Thirdly, it's better to express yourself on the topic, and not about your attitude towards my streams and weak attempts to teach me right and wrong.

Added 1 minute ago
KobRa_RR
SZOT. The, your opinions have nothing to do with the reality around you.
And on the topic: if you think this is unfair, that this is a bug, then you've got the wrong topic: write to the HoMM developers. No one from AK is among them, I think)))) And what you did is called whining. I saw it in the broadcast and I'm telling you about it right now.
What does whining consist of? Was I supposed to calmly say, "Okay, everything is fine," and sit in silence? - Would that not be whining?


Added 2 minutes ago
=Lizard=
Timur, due to the very fact of such a large amount of text in this topic, your brilliant victories in the mirror tournament fade on their own. And it doesn't matter at all who is right and who is wrong. If you had silently won the next match against Hell, most people would have said afterwards that it was actually 3-0, not 3-1. That would have been cool and manly. But as it is... it's not cool, and it's not brilliant. And in the end, these disputes will be remembered much more than the games and victories. No offense.
The funniest thing is that there are no disputes, I described the situation, without demanding anything and without trying to prove anything to anyone. Then provocateurs started trolling, not on the topic, flaunting their childish grievances, and that's how it started, with a corresponding response to rudeness and provocation.
And the situation itself remains unresolved.
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IMHO, it would be helpful to clarify the question "What does the original poster want?".
A replay of the entire game? A replay of a turn from a save? To pause ongoing games until the next version of Heroes of Might and Magic Online is released, which will fix this feature?
In reply to grey1s
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I don't understand the criticism directed at The.
From a formal point of view, he is absolutely right.
There was a certain change in the gameplay that played a decisive role in this match. And he wasn't mentally prepared for it.
It's perfectly logical that he raised the question of "what to do in this case?" to the judges!
In my opinion, the judges' decision was also quite correct. It was mutual - a voluntary agreement to this game variant. And, therefore, to all the gameplay changes that it entails.
It's just that it's not very pleasant when such incidents occur in fairly important matches. But... what can you do? Should we introduce penalties for using such innovations in decisive matches? I don't think that will solve the problem.

It's perfectly logical that annulling the game or penalizing Hell in other ways would be wrong. So, the only thing left to do is to finish this match in the same way as it is.

And in the future, think 10 times before agreeing to use certain changes in the gameplay.
.... шло время, а ситуация не менялась. Мясо продолжало визжать и пищать и главное НИЧЕГО не делать!!!
In reply to Antoshka
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If such an episode had occurred in "World of Xeen," I would recommend loading the autosave from turn 123 for the red player and continuing from there. However, since the players mutually agreed to change the rules of the game, they are responsible for the consequences. P.S. Reaching turn 123 in "World of Xeen" on Diamond difficulty is quite challenging. P.P.S. From a technical implementation perspective, I think it would be beneficial to, after synchronization, display the red player's turn to the blue player and offer the option to stop "World of Xeen" and replay the last day.
In reply to Wicc
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Wicc
If such an episode happened in "Heroes of Might and Magic," I would recommend loading the autosave from turn 123 and continuing from there.

But since the players mutually agreed to change the rules of the game, they are responsible for the consequences.

P.S. Reaching turn 123 in Heroes of Might and Magic is quite a feat.

P.P.S. From a technical implementation perspective, I think it would be better to show the blue player the red player's turn after synchronization and offer to stop the "Heroes of Might and Magic" with a replay of the last turn.

After the red player has already made their move on turn 124? So, you are suggesting rolling back not just one, but two turns?
What is this fashionable nonsense about replaying turns? The player gains an unfair advantage because they already know what and where everything is, who is guarding what, and their sizes, and will be able to make moves with this unfair information.
Let's also give autosaves when players lose or misclick in tournament matches. For me, this is a sign of equivalence.
In my opinion, it would be much simpler to legally define "Heroes of Might and Magic" up to turn 116 (the time for restarts on the middle roads) and be done with it. Or, we can just wait for a patch sometime.


In reply to KobRa_RR
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This reverts the game exactly by one turn – blue moves to 123, and red moves to 124. The reason is to maintain the game's logic. For a tournament that is positioned as a test of Online Battles, this solution is, in my opinion, the most correct.

In those distant times, when they hadn't yet learned how to fix split units, it sometimes took 2-3 turns to resolve.
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it's clear that an undocumented feature of the software has emerged.
I think everyone agrees that the opponent cannot be held responsible for this, right?
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In reply to Wicc
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Wicc
This is a rollback of exactly 1 turn – blue moves 123, and red moves 124. The reason is to maintain the game's logic. For a tournament that is positioned as a test of Online Heroes, this solution is, in my opinion, the most correct.

In those distant times, when they didn't yet know how to cure split turns, it sometimes took 2-3 turns to complete a move.
Your suggestion will definitely not preserve the game's logic; it would be acceptable if the conversation were about only after I took my turn, and not when the entire army of both players and 5-7 heroes on each side are involved, as well as 2 full battles have been fought.
In reply to Wicc
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Wicc


P.P.S. Regarding the technical implementation - I think that after synchronization, the blue player should be shown the red player's move and offered to stop the OH with a replay of the last day.

Regarding the technical implementation in the current version, it is simpler to always play OH only until the re-meeting. Otherwise, saving an hour or an hour and a half of time turns into a real pain upon contact, which cannot be resolved correctly in any way. In Heroes V, by the way, there is no question of canceling the results of an OH break. There are techniques where one of the opponents intentionally breaks simultaneous play in such a way as to gain an advantage from this event (for example, using Dimension Door into the area where the opponent is moving and blocking the portal/attacking heroes), and this is part of the game.
Стримы HMM5 на полных картах мод TE:
ru.twitch.tv/noom11

Alex_nv - draw - Vovan112013 летос 236

alex_nv wrote: Наконец то нормальная игра с открытием половины карты.
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A simple option for mirror map templates: implement an end-of-round condition after one of the players breaches the portal to the opponent's plane.
In reply to Marcus Aurelius
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Marcus Aurelius
A simple option for mirror match templates: make the Overkill Halt (OH) trigger after one of the players breaks through to the opponent's plane.
This isn't a simple option. On Diamond, the portal can easily be broken through on turn 112. And even on X3DM1, it's often broken through on the first turn, although this encounter isn't particularly likely.

Regarding the main topic: I believe that the current OH logic required a replay of the blue player's last turn, but Zee should have requested this immediately (it seems from the stream that he immediately understood what happened and could have not waited for the outcomes of all the battles). But by then, after the red player had already moved and won 3 battles against the blue player, the opportunity had passed. You formally agreed with what was happening as soon as you started moving in the first combat encounter.
In reply to Marcus Aurelius
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Marcus Aurelius
A simple solution for mirror match templates: make the Overlord Hour (OH) end after one of the players breaks through to the opponent's plane.

The main drawback is that the element of surprise is lost. In my case, Stinger came in second at the beginning of the second round; he thought it was a surprise attack, but in reality, his own clumsy play and the timer got in the way.

Added 3 minutes later
nik312


Regarding the topic: I believe that the current Overlord Hour logic required a replay of the blue player's last turn, but Zee should have demanded this immediately (from the stream, it seems that he immediately understood what happened and could have not waited for the results of all the battles). But after the red player had already retreated and won 3 battles against the blue player, the opportunity was lost. You formally agreed with what was happening as soon as you started moving in the first combat encounter.

That's exactly why I posted the video, because his reaction is clearly visible there. And after he lost, he suddenly "realized" that it was unfair and started complaining in the chat


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