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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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In my opinion, no one will or should try to prove anything to you; it's a complex issue. Perhaps that's why he didn't talk about the reasons, although, from a purely human perspective, he should have.
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Even though I constantly argue with Roger in the "Politics" section, in this particular episode, he is more right. The dismissive "I don't have time" responses look bad, especially considering that expressing the position ultimately took only 2 lines. Plus, the misinformation that "this is the organizers' decision." Not including a player in a tournament is, of course, the organizers' right, but it should be stated clearly and publicly: "Player N is not accepted into the tournament for the following reasons." And these reasons should be explained in detail if requested. But to silently remove someone from the list retroactively and deny questions... it's just rotten.
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It seems like this is just a personal dislike, as I personally don't remember any problems with Roger in tournaments, and the people he had issues with registered without any problems.
Question: does a person have the right to be the organizer of an important tournament for the site, if their personal grudge is more important than anything else?
Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

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Both laughter and sin, I swear. What personal offense are you talking about? There's no reason for me to be offended by Roger. I've already stated my position on his issue above. Just one incident with Falcon is worth mentioning. And is it even necessary in a team tournament?
296524052
Весна 2012.
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The complaint is not about the solution itself, but about its form.
In reply to Wicc
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Wicc
Although I constantly argue with Roger in "Politics," in this particular episode, he is more right.

Dismissing things with "I don't have time" looks bad, especially considering that expressing his position ultimately took only two lines. Plus, the misinformation that "this is the organizers' decision."

Not including a player in a tournament is, of course, the organizers' right, but it should be stated clearly and publicly: "Player N has not been accepted into the tournament for the following reasons." And these reasons should be explained in detail if requested.

But to silently remove someone from the list retroactively and deny questions... it feels rather rotten...


Bravo, Wicc!

Yes, I remembered the case with Falcone. Falcone's game crashed, supposedly due to an internet lag, but he remembered that he had 22 minutes left. I suggested that he continue his turn immediately, and I would add the difference between the time at the start of his turn and 22 minutes to my own time. That is, he simply continues his turn, and on my turn, I make a save after accounting for this difference and reload my turn to continue. In this case, since I had almost no time left on my timer, I would theoretically gain some advantage. But I considered that since the opponent crashed during his turn, and I didn't raise any questions (for example, the opponent could have saved before a difficult battle and crashed if the battle turned out badly), this was a fair solution. But the opponent insisted on continuing his turn without doing anything until 22 minutes. In this case, a third participant would be needed to monitor the opponent until 22 minutes. Zloy Romantic and Dirty were offered as people who could monitor the process of doing nothing, but since Zloy Romantic and Falcone were from the same city (St. Petersburg), Dirty was a better option for me. This is a huge problem and a problem with opponents. In the subsequent game, Falcone showed himself to be a gentleman, and in return, I gave him 8 minutes, and we parted as friends. In any case, I have only positive impressions of Falcone, despite his stubbornness in resolving this technical problem. I also expressed my opinion to Zloy Romantic and Kosta that I would like to have a ready-made solution in this situation, as crashes happen quite often.

Maybe that's why I wasn't included in the tournament.
Весна 2013.
In reply to Roger-ua
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In the regulations of most tournaments on ХВ (including “one for all”), there is a rule that states that the Tournament is held according to the Rules for organizing, conducting, and participating in online HOMM3 tournaments. These rules contain subparagraph "d" of paragraph 2.2: The Organizer has the right to refuse an application to participate in the tournament from any user without publicly explaining the reasons. However, this does not exempt the organizer from explaining the reason for the refusal to the player privately. In August, scorp opened a thread to discuss the rules, and I suggested removing this point and still believe that refusing participation should be justified. The organization's rules also have subparagraph "c" of paragraph 3.2: A participant in the tournament has the right to appeal to the Tournament Judge and/or the Arbitration Committee if they disagree with the Organizer’s decision on a particular issue. Therefore, Roger’s request to be reinstated in the tournament is quite reasonable. He submitted an application for the tournament within the deadline, is not a cheater, and did not violate the portal’s rules. Justifying the refusal by stating that the player was involved in resolving controversial situations is completely unfounded. Following this logic, more than half of the participants in the Summer Novice tournament could be excluded from the next tournament. I believed then, and I still believe now, that the organizer is needed precisely to resolve disputes between players. And if a player has a different opinion on how to resolve a disputed issue, it must be taken into account, not ignored. This should not serve as a reason for refusing participation in the tournament.

UTC+03:00, icq 593626431
In reply to Roger-ua
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Roger-ua
I remembered an incident with Falcone. Falcone's game crashed mid-turn, and it seemed like it was due to an internet lag. However, he remembered that he had 22 minutes left on his turn. I suggested that he continue his turn immediately, and I would add the difference between the time remaining on his turn and 22 minutes to my own time. In other words, he would simply continue his turn, and on my turn, I would account for that difference, save the game, and reload my turn to continue. In this case, since I usually had very little time left on my timer, I would theoretically gain some advantage. But I considered this a fair solution because his game crashed during his turn, and I didn't raise any objections (for example, the opponent could have saved the game before a difficult battle and crashed if the battle turned out badly). However, the opponent insisted on continuing his turn without doing anything for 22 minutes. In this case, a third participant would be needed to monitor the opponent until 22 minutes. Zloy Romantik and Dirty were suggested as people who could monitor the process of doing nothing, but since Zloy Romantik and Falcone were from the same city (St. Petersburg), Dirty seemed like a better option to me. This is a huge problem and a problem with opponents. Later in the game, Falcone proved to be a gentleman, and in return, I gave him 8 minutes, and we parted as friends. In any case, I have only positive impressions of Falcone, despite his stubbornness in resolving this technical issue. I also expressed my opinion to Zloy Romantik and Kosta that I would like to have a ready-made solution in this situation, as crashes happen quite often.

Maybe that's why I wasn't included in the tournament.

Well, the solution you proposed is indeed strange, and the requirement for monitoring the time wasting may be logical, but at the very least, it's not customary here, and it would create extra hassle for the judges. I would like to remind you that corrupted saves appeared only in 2013; how did they manage before that for so many years? //By the way, I haven't seen any epic disputes about suspected map hacking lately, like the ones that used to be against Britvotchka and Chemist; maybe passwords are related to that// I'm saying this because if you don't trust anyone, it's easier not to play at all.

But the decision is strange, of course, but no less strange than the exclusion of Rebellius from the "Outlaw 2" tournament, so this is already a trend.
ICQ 423164784

In reply to skd
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Sanin
But the decision is strange, though no less strange than not allowing Rebellius to participate in the "Outlaw 2" tournament, so this is already a trend.
Since this situation has been brought up again, I will repeat myself. I simply don't want to include in the tournament someone who insulted me and said a lot of nasty things. I would rather not hold tournaments at all if I am required to make an effort for someone who treats me like that. Why should I try and get negativity in return?
skd
Therefore, Roger's demand to be reinstated in the tournament is quite justified.
On what basis, may I ask?
skd
However, this does not relieve the organizer of the obligation to explain to the player, but not publicly, the reason for the refusal.
And what will that change? If the player who was refused disagrees with the reason for the refusal, then what?

Regarding the situation, I myself don't understand why the refusal occurred, but if there are some disagreements between people, what should be done? In fact, there is a solution. Since there are 2 organizers in the tournament, I don't see any problem with Roger communicating through Palach.
In reply to Sanin
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Sanin

But the decision is strange, although no less strange than not allowing Rebellius to participate in the "Outlaw 2" tournament, so this is already a trend.

Some people waste a lot of time in the organization without any particular reason (well, it's just ridiculous to make Dirty watch how Falcon does nothing :D :D. You can only envy his patience).

Moreover, the people who are always dissatisfied with everything are the same, and there aren't that many of them. So why invite a person to a fun team tournament if he is likely to annoy someone.
http://heroes3.tv/aiwe
In reply to Dirty_Player
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Dirty_Player

On what basis, may I ask?
In the tournament organization rules, there is subclause "c" of point 3.2: A tournament participant has the right to appeal to the Tournament Judge and/or the AC if they disagree with the Organizer's decision on a particular issue.

Ras Roger submitted an application — he is a participant. His application was not accepted — he used subclause "c" of point 3.2 of the rules.

He appealed to the AC and, I assume, is waiting for an appropriate decision. The AC must then determine whether the rejection was justified or not. Until a decision is made, such a removal of a participant is unlawful.

I consider the refusal to register for the tournament unjustified also because the player being denied participation submitted their application for the tournament correctly and on time, and they received information about the denial only after the tournament had already started — when the list of 20 players needed to be submitted.

In this case, this is outright disrespectful treatment of a tournament participant by the organizer.

And if we open the organization rules, subclause "c" of point 2.1 states that the Organizer must treat the tournament participants, their requests, comments, and wishes with respect and attention.

Since the conduct of tournaments is based on these rules, and seeing such rejections, I have a perfectly reasonable question.

So why even state in the tournament regulations that it is based on the HeroesWorld tournament rules, if they are not followed or are followed selectively for personal gain?

UTC+03:00, icq 593626431
In reply to Dirty_Player
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Dirty_Player
Since there are 2 organizers in the tournament, I don't see any problem with Roger communicating through Palach.
He is actually trying to do this: "I ask the organizers and judges to reinstate me in the tournament until a decision is made by the Arbitration Committee on the substance of this issue." However, we have a feeling that this is a dead end and that our familiar pirate will be left out.
In reply to skd
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skd
Ras Roger submitted an application – he is a participant.
This is completely incorrect. He will become a participant after being added to the list of participants.
skd
He appealed to the Arbitration Committee and I assume he is waiting for a corresponding decision. Next, the Arbitration Committee must decide whether the rejection is justified or not. And until a decision is made, such a removal of a participant is not legitimate.
I don't understand what can be discussed here? The organizer used a clause that exists in the regulations. What claim can be made against him? It's roughly the same as a participant being rejected on the grounds that he just registered, and in response, he appeals to the Arbitration Committee because he disagrees with the clause.
Participants registered on HeroesWorld after 12.08.2015 will not be accepted in the tournament.
What is there to discuss here?
skd
So, why state in the tournament regulations that it is based on the rules for conducting HeroesWorld tournaments if they are not followed or are selectively followed in personal interests?
I don't see which rule of HeroesWorld is not being followed?

Added 2 minutes ago
bubuch
well, he's kind of trying to do that: "I ask the organizers and judges to reinstate me in the tournament until the Arbitration Committee makes a decision on this issue." But something tells us that this is a dead end and that our pirate will end up being excluded.
As a judge, I spoke with Zlyy_romantik and suggested reconsidering this decision. He disagreed, and quite categorically. What can I force him to do? Maybe ban him? :smile32:
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Okay, if the Executioner is ready to handle ALL issues and problems related to this user, then let him do it – I'm washing my hands of this.
296524052
Весна 2012.
In reply to Aiwe
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Aiwe
Some people waste a lot of time on the organizer without any particular reason (well, it's just ridiculous to make Dirty watch Falcon do nothing :D :D. You can only envy his patience).

Moreover, the people who are always dissatisfied with everything are the same, and there aren't that many of them. So why invite someone to a fun team tournament if they are likely to annoy someone?


The process of doing nothing took 5-6 minutes, but Kostya watched the game for a couple more hours of his own free will. And it wasn't my suggestion if you read Aiwe's text carefully.

Yes, to a person with whom I have never played, who has never been an organizer or a judge during my participation in tournaments. But who, on the other hand, knows who is always dissatisfied with everything, is sure that someone will annoy others, and the negativity from whom is so obvious that it is difficult not to notice. Moreover, as Satyr noticed, the negativity stems from personal hatred.

I, to put it mildly, Aiwe, do not trust your opinion.
Весна 2013.

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