your questions regarding the game rules (improving the interpretation). — Tournament History

scorp

11 years ago

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which rules are unclear or imprecise, etc., so that they can be simplified in terms of understanding and accuracy of wording?

I am ready to help with this; together we will refine them.

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In the neighboring topic, a question was raised regarding the blockade:
1.5. Restart due to a strong blockade up to level 112 inclusive.
Blockade is a strong defense of something that cannot be destroyed without catastrophic losses in a specific game.
A restart is initiated at the request of the player who owns the blockade if it is impossible to bypass the blockade, which cuts off the Castle from the main part of the starting zone, leaving no opportunity for development up to the blockade.
The strength of the blockade is primarily assessed by the player who declared the blockade, then by his opponent, and if there is a dispute between the players, by the host/judge/AC.
If subjective restarts remain, a subjective restart is used according to the player's choice (i.e., on level 112, you can use the remaining restart from level 111).
If subjective restarts run out, the player has the right to demand an additional restart.

Restart if the blockade is on the only path (it doesn't matter if it's a road or rough terrain; evidence requires scouting the area to show that there are no other paths in darkness). The limit for the duration of the blockade is 113 (since the maximum number of restart days is 3, and 3 days are needed to prove the existence of darkness).

The blockade varies greatly depending on different scenarios, so it will not be possible to describe every rule combination. I suggest:

Level 2 monsters: 100+ (shooting units: 50+) Level 3: 50+ (shooting units: 20+) Level 4: 20+ Levels 5-7: any quantity

Gremlin lair as a blockade - ?! , unless it consists of 100+ (100-249) creatures.
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2.4. Dimension Door spell:
- On all maps except XL+U size maps, each hero can use it no more than once per day;
- On XL+U size maps, each hero can use it twice per day with expert air magic.

- On XL+U size maps, each hero can use it up to two times per day with expert air magic; a hero without expert air magic can only use it once per day.
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Additional rules for transitions between zones:
...
- Transition between zones using the Angel Wings artifact and the Flight and Dimension Door spells is allowed:
a) between any of zones 1-4 and central zone 5, if the ГО (Guard Object) of any path between the corresponding zones has been defeated;
b) between two zones 1-4, if the ГОs have been defeated between central zone 5 and both of these zones;
c) in cases of multiple ГОs on one path – to approach the chosen player's GO, while the first action in the new zone must be eliminating this GO.
It is permissible to fly into zone 5 (the center treasure zone).
1) At the same time, scouting/running around is permitted as much as desired, but during that turn, any GO from the flight zone must be killed by the flying hero. Visiting objects or collecting resources is prohibited (except for random DDs into darkness).
2) If Dimension Door was used into darkness and you ended up under guard, you need to kill the guard without collecting anything, and then follow point 1.
3) If monsters block the way to the GO, they can be killed; it doesn't matter even if there is a GO without being blocked by units (closer or further - it doesn't matter; if you can bypass the monsters along the shortest path closer through the monsters, you can kill them and then follow step 1).

or

after flying into zone 5 during that turn, the same hero must kill any GO leading to the zone from which he flew, at the same time, before defeating the GO, the following are prohibited:
1) capturing/fighting in objects
2) collecting
3) attacking enemy heroes
*It is permissible to attack any units in the treasure zone, except for ГОs leading to other zones (after their destruction, nothing can be collected – repeat p.2)
**All valuable items that were defeated before defeating the GO during this turn may only be collected by the hero who fought with them (so that one person does not fly in, clear everything out, and scouts collect everything).
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2.6.3. It is allowed to enter an adjacent zone without defeating the guard of the passage in order to visit an object belonging to that zone, in which the player is located.
2.6.3. It is forbidden to enter an adjacent zone without defeating the guard of the passage in order to visit an object belonging to that zone, in which the player is located.

arguments /topic/at/831612/
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2.1.1.-2.1.4. red rush

complete cancellation (up to m size maps)
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P.S. icq 360913099

Iamsamstan

11 years ago

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scorp

4th level 20+

What about mages or vampire lords? IMHO they can already be considered a block from 10+, although necro or Conflux can break the latter.

In reply to Iamsamstan

scorp

11 years ago

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Iamsamstan

And what about mages or vampire lords? IMHO they can already be considered a block of 10+, although the latter can be broken by Necr or Conflux.

perhaps it is worth adding - shooters 10+, and 19 ul vampires - for the first battle(111) this is more of a block(10 is unpleasant, but it's not a block), and for 113 it is more likely not a block - in such situations with strong monsters, perhaps it is worth adding a judge's review, but I wanted to find a golden mean where players would turn to judges less and could regulate situations themselves and look for fewer loopholes in the rules

updated 1st post regarding p2.4(DD)

Added after 21 minute
2.13. Bugs:
only fixed and known bugs are described there, I would add a General clause (is it needed?)
- it is forbidden to use bugs that affect the game in any way

In reply to scorp

Iamsamstan

11 years ago

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scorp

- using bugs that affect the game in any way is prohibited

they all affect the game in some way, so I think it would be better to be more specific, like bugs that affect the duration of a hero's turn (like with the hat) or the course of a battle (I don't have much experience with this, but I remember the infinite berserker).

skd

11 years ago

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Proposals:
For a block restart, a clarification can be added in the relevant section of the rules; the block value can be tied to the level of creatures in that block; for complex creatures (Gr. Archers, Storm Elementals, Grands, Corsairs, Vamp Lord, Mages, Medusas, Enchantresses, Liches, Cyclops, Charadeis) - set the value as for creatures 1 level higher.
For example:
Level 2 creatures - 15k block,
Level 3 - 13k,
Level 4 - 11.5k,
Level 5 - 10k,
Level 6 - 9k,
Level 7 - 8k.
A block on first-level creatures - only if it blocks the city exit and is unavoidable.
Mandatory condition: checked — remains without restart.
For a Miner, for example, if there are no morale boosts, you can micromix normal Ogres for 11.5k. Therefore, the player decides — risk it or take a restart.

Also regarding Hiran — the rules previously allowed using battle magic on one's own units to reduce the buyout cost, dunno why this clause was abolished.

Also regarding Redrash — allowed only on HL+U — I suggest adding Jebus/

Also regarding specialist heroes of Offense/Defense/Logistics — if it can be programmatically limited so that the bonus from the specialty increases up to level 20, and then remains unchanged (at level 20, the specialty doubles the skill bonus, i.e., expert Offense skills will give 60%, Defense - 30%, Logistics at max speed - 1200 MP instead of 600).

The Grail can be dug starting from 211, currently after 5 weeks — i.e., from 221.

And also it is desirable to add rules for HotA to the rules section, since there are clarifications there for BT. Or publish the rules in the HotA section.

In reply to Iamsamstan

scorp

11 years ago

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Iamsamstan

They all have some kind of impact, and I think we can be more specific here, like bugs that affect the duration of a hero's turn (like with the hat) or the course of a battle (I don't have much experience with this, but I remember something about an infinite berserk).

The hat issue is already addressed in the fixed part (p2.13.4).
I couldn't find anything about the berserk in the rules, but there were some discussions about it somewhere (maybe someone can provide a link). Here, we also need a precise description of the physics of this "bug" if it even is one (I only know it approximately).

P.S. Suggest other rules that need to be refined.

=Lizard=

11 years ago

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It's a bit strange how you're judging, gentlemen. Whether something is a "block" or not often depends on the army you're facing. For Shakti, with 50 troglodytes, anything is a block, but with 150+, nothing is a block. So, the formulation "with losses exceeding half the army" is perfectly adequate and has been around for a long time.

Sav

11 years ago

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skd

It would also be good to add the rules for HotA to the rules section, as there are some clarifications for the Warlord Tournament there. Or, in the HotA section, publish the rules.

The rules for HotA will appear in its section along with the other topics as soon as everything is ready. Currently, these rules can be found here: http://h3hota.com/documentation/ru/online (they are also available in English).

In reply to skd

scorp

11 years ago

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skd

Suggestions:
For restarting a battle based on a unit block, you could add a clarification in the corresponding section of the rules. The block value could be tied to the level of the units in that block. For complex units (e.g., archers, storm elementals, grand mages, corsairs, vampire lords, mages, medusas, enchantresses, liches, cyclops, charadees) - set the value as if they were units one level higher.
For example:
Level 2 units - 15 to the block,
Level 3 - 13 to the block,
Level 4 - 11.5 to the block,
Level 5 - 10 to the block,
Level 6 - 9 to the block,
Level 7 - 8 to the block.
Block based on level 1 units - only if it blocks the exit from the city and cannot be bypassed.
A mandatory condition: it should be checked whether there is a possibility of restarting without any losses.
For example, with a miner, if there are no regular ogres, you can easily defeat 11.5 units. Therefore, the player decides whether to take the risk or restart.

Regarding the value, it's a good idea, but if I'm a beginner, it will confuse me. Simplicity is needed, just as it is divided in the game (1-4, 5-9, 10-19, 20-49, etc.).

Regarding (one level higher) - the idea is good, but its implementation seems to create a lot of text in the rules (there are many situations).

Block based on level 1 units - who doesn't kill them with the starting "situation"? And how many of them should there be? I wouldn't consider this a block.

A mandatory condition: it should be checked whether there is a possibility of restarting without any losses - if you checked with a weak unit and there were 10 of them, why not play and defeat them? And if you checked and there were 19, then it's more likely a block and a restart. But if you came with an army and didn't kill them or killed them and came out with 1 unit - this is not a restart (a lot of rules), I think it's better not to write this - whether it's useful to fight them or not is the main thing, just show their number to the opponent/judge

KobRa_RR

11 years ago

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You've gone to the wrong battlefield, some kind of "value" units, but it doesn't matter what kind of units they are, what matters is how much of your army will remain on average after breaking through the blockade – if less than half at a glance, then it's a blockade; if the opponent disagrees, i.e., the judge, write to him immediately.

In reply to skd

scorp

11 years ago

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skd

Regarding the Hive Mind again - previously the rules allowed using battle magic on one's own units to reduce the ransom cost, I don't know why this rule was abolished.

Also regarding Red March - it is allowed only on HL+U - I suggest adding Jebus Cross/

Hive Mind - seems like a good idea, suggest providing reasoning, but in actual games I don't see its implementation on the first turn (if we already have such magic, then our army should be good, and if we are short a few coins - well, your own fault for not preparing for the ransom - I see it this way)

Red March on Jebus Cross - haven't played Jebus Cross, and haven't watched it that much, army trades there happen on the 2nd week, if they trade down to zero, then Red can only win the game due to growth, and even if there were no army trades, Jebus Cross can be very rich in level 7 cache spots (7+ pieces + dwellings then how many) - I would be against it (I repeat, haven't played it)

Added after 5 minutes

skd

Also regarding heroes specializing in Offense/Defense/Logistics - if this can be programmatically limited so that the bonus from the specialty increases up to a maximum of level 20, and then remains unchanged (at level 20 - the specialty increases the skill bonus by 2 times, i.e. expert Offense skills will give - 60%, Defense - 30%, Logistics at maximum speed - 1200 MP instead of 600)

The Grail can be dug starting from week 2, day 1, now after 5 weeks - i.e. from week 2, day 2, turn 1

And also preferably in the rules section - add rules for HotA, as there are clarifications there for VT. Or in the HotA section - publish the rules.

Nothing was planned programmatically, we are only trying to organize the rules

The Grail - that's unknown, suggested that you need to visit some % (or a certain number) of all obelisks and then dig, but somehow the Grail was neglected

Added after 5 minutes

KobRa_RR

You're going off on a tangent, some values, and it doesn't matter what those units are, what matters is how much of your army remains on average after breaking the blockade - if it's less than half at a rough estimate, then it's a blockade, if the opponent disagrees, then there's a judge, write to him immediately

How to define this "rough estimate" for players of different skill levels, for some even a Griffin Conservatory with one Shackti will be killed with 50% losses, and for others a Dragon Utopia even on the second or even on the first turn is easy :D - and so for every occasion you need to call a judge? And if it were written down, it would be easier for the players (perhaps my view is "biased")

In reply to scorp

skd

11 years ago

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scorp

It seems like a good idea – offer an argument, but in real games, I don't see it being implemented in the first turn (if we already have this magic, then our army should also be good, and if we're short a few coins, well, it's our own fault for not preparing for the ransom – that's how I see it).

Nothing was planned programmatically; we just need to organize the rules.

For example, you want to ransom an opponent's hero, but they will have the first turn, and instead of removing unnecessary troops to reduce the ransom cost, you take them with you into battle. Tactically, you position archers around your stack – the opponent can use Wait on their first turn, and then you can shower that stack with a Meteor Shower to make the ransom cheaper. There can be different situations; I don't see this as a "hit and run."

Regarding programmatically limiting heroes – Isru and Vidomina were limited. It's also worth considering limiting specialists in offense and defense. Doubling a skill is already a significant advantage, and skills above level 20 are not often upgraded. Although level 30 heroes can be found in the dungeon.

In reply to skd

scorp

11 years ago

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skd

For example, if you want to buy off your opponent's hero, they will have the first turn, and instead of removing unnecessary troops to reduce the cost of the buyout, you take them with you into battle. Tactically, you position archers around your stack – the opponent can use 'wait' on their first turn, but then you can rain down a meteor on them, making the buyout cheaper. There can be different situations, and I don't see this as a 'hit and run' tactic.

I immediately calculated the worst-case scenario (for the defender), but it only works for the attacker, so there's definitely no need to give them any advantages. If you're attacking, you should be prepared for anything, as you're not attacking a prepared hero. They don't have any options to dismiss some troops, exchange resources, or bring in an army, etc.

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MerlinTheMagician

11 years ago

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The Grail should have been allowed to be dug up without restrictions a long time ago. Instances where it appears on the starting map are rare. And even if you manage to find it, you might lose tempo. You dig it up, and an opponent who has already explored the map defeats you...

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Lider1

11 years ago

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MerlinTheMagician

The Grail should have been allowed to be dug up without restrictions a long time ago. Instances where it appears on the starting map are rare. And then you have to dig it up, which slows you down. You find it, but an opponent who has already explored the map defeats you...

archaisms are stronger than common sense.