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Posts from The 3rd stage of the annual John Van Caneghem Tournament (2007).
Regarding the ballista... no matter how many times I play Heroes, I don't remember running out of ammunition! Does anyone have a version where ammunition does run out? No!!! So, use this little trick to your advantage!
And no matter how many times I play Heroes :) artifacts are still sold at inflated prices. So, what now – should we just use what's available? Therefore, your argument is not an argument.Mozay;81044
spending several hours on a single turn!!! I wouldn't be able to handle it, even for the sake of victory :)
Well, I might not be able to handle it either. But there was one guy here, I don't know where he went, AmberSoler, and he said that everything depends on the motivation for such a battle. If the reward is worth it, you can spend even more hours on the battle. There is only one question left – why are you all talking about a multi-hour battle when such battles are completed with artifacts in 5 minutes. I, for example, honestly go through a battle that, according to my calculations, will take 18-20 hours. And someone will use an artifact and complete this battle in 5 minutes. The question for the organizers is – how will my rights be protected? I'll risk answering – in no way. And here are my options for solving the problem: 1. this ballista trick needs to be banned (but not from this tournament, I've already spent 4 hours on it) 2. allow everyone who wants to complete such battles with artifacts 3. allow such battles, but prohibit completing them with artifacts, while proving that the organizers are able to distinguish between saves in which an artifact was used and those in which it was not. There is no fourth option :)
Alan
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IronAxe already understood everything… this issue will be discussed among the organizers, and starting with the next tournament, it will be noted in the rules. However, VDV has a program for checking saves /topic/2277/ (I think that in the case of ballista use and suspicion regarding artifacts, he will still find it and use it). At the moment, I recommend that everyone who plans to use the ballista for hours make screenshots of the battle (this is not mandatory, and those who have already played for 4 hours are probably too late to talk about it now 8)). But it may help prove their point).
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
Kamikaze
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Listen, is there really no counter to this "hack," or is there? What if people start using this kind of garbage?
Alan
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Therefore, the thread about the ballista is closed until the return of VDV, as the official organizer of this stage, and his answers to the existing posts. All subsequent messages dedicated to this issue will be deleted.
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
There is a way to counter this cheat. If your won battle with artifacts doesn't match the description and the organizer can't win it himself, then you're done for. We are talking about long but actually winnable battles, which Alan understood correctly.
Added after 5 minutes Alan;81141
2 IronAxe already understands everything... this point will be discussed among the organizers, and from the next Tournaments, it will be noted in the rules. However, VDV has a program to check saves /topic/2277/ (I think that in the case of ballista and suspicion of using artifacts, it will still find and use them).
There is no program against artifacts. If there is one, let VDV publish it.Alan;81141
At the moment, I recommend everyone who plans to spend hours using a ballista to take Printscreen shots of the battle (this is not mandatory, and those who have been playing for 4 hours should probably know this by now 8)). But it may help prove your case).
It's not too late - I can play and play more. So, maybe (about print screens) this should also be in the rules. How many print screens are needed approximately from a 20-hour battle?
It's not too late – I can still run and run. And this (about screenshots) should probably be in the rules as well. How many screenshots are needed from a 20-hour battle?
This might be included in the rules... I repeat, until the VDV returns, the question is closed. Take enough screenshots so that people will believe you (approximately every 5% of the total battle time).
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
Yesterday I wrote a program that simulates mouse clicks, which allowed me to complete the battle in 2,5 hours.
This program simply moves the mouse cursor to the required location on the battlefield and performs clicks on the battlefield at the right time.
It is impossible to determine if a person used such a program by looking at the final save, because the program does nothing wrong and does not affect saves in any way. I think everyone will agree that this program is not cheating.
If anyone is interested, I can upload this program with a brief description. Truth be told, I have no time to refine it. It was written for one specific battle. But I could quickly change a few things, and it would then work for many battles. Only the user will have to sweat a bit before they enter the correct data.
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
This is possible and will be in the rules... I repeat once again, the issue is closed until VDV returns.
Why are you trying to close the issue before VDV returns? The more material we gather on this issue, the easier it will be for VDV to make a decision when he returns. It is clear that the decision will be up to VDV, and no one is disputing that. But let people express their opinion on this issue.
Added 31 minutes ago vbn;81203
Yesterday I wrote a program that simulates mouse button clicks, which allowed me to complete the battle in 2.5 hours.
I don't believe you :) There is not enough data yet. Let me explain: Are you sure you didn't use x-starter when creating this? If not, then what language or program did you use to code it?vbn;81203
This program simply moves the mouse cursor to the correct location on the battlefield and clicks on the battlefield at the correct time.
If you tested this on the battle I'm thinking of, then you'll see the problem. Monsters never get a lucky break or morale (I don't know how to call it correctly) for an extra turn. But my unit sometimes does. There is no way to get rid of this lucky break!! Therefore, if I didn't get a lucky break either, then your program would be useful. However, because I do get a lucky break, and it is impossible to predict when it will happen, the sequence of button presses in the game menu changes. Let me explain: I move, the enemy moves, I move, the enemy moves, etc. (up to this point, the program works normally). But then, suddenly, I get a morale boost. At this point, I have to press either skip turn or wait, then skip turn, and only after the enemy moves, I move again. How does your program determine these deviations from the norm???? and determine in what sequence to press which button? Otherwise, if morale occurs, such a program will lead me straight to the monster, right into its attack.vbn;81203
It is impossible to determine whether a person used such a program based on the final save, because the program does not do anything bad, it does not affect the saves in any way. I think everyone will agree that the program is not a cheat.
I agree with this, and in some types of battles (with certain artifacts), this program will be very useful. By the way, I think that in such a long battle, but one that is actually winnable, and the artifact monster is not a cheat program :) It will just save you real time.vbn;81203
If anyone wants, I can post this program with a brief description.
Send it to my email: BigAxes@rambler.ru If you have the source code and don't mind sharing it, I wouldn't refuse it :)
x-starter? I'm hearing about this for the first time. The program is written in Delphi, and the code is only 10 lines long. You are absolutely right about the morale drop (extra turn); here, you will have to use the following options: 1) take a hero without leadership and artifacts that increase morale; 2) apply a morale-reducing effect; 3) take armies from another castle to lower the morale to neutral;
to avoid cluttering the thread, I will separate the further description and discussion of the program into a separate topic (see the link below).
Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things. Charity never faileth...
x-starter? I'm hearing about it for the first time.
The program is written in Delphi, and the code is only 10 lines long.
You are absolutely right about the morale drop (extra turn);
here, you will have to use the following options:
1) take a hero without leadership and artifacts that increase morale;
2) apply a morale-suppressing artifact;
3) take armies from another castle to lower the morale to neutral;
to avoid cluttering, I will separate the further description and discussion of the program into a separate topic (see the link below).
Okay, we have "Hero Digger" – now let's create a "Ballista Killer"!! :)
vbn - x-starter does approximately the same thing as the program. But it is designed for those who don't know how to program. It records mouse movements and sets up button and key clicks, and you can also specify timer delays before pressing buttons.
Dear VDV_forever,
A question has arisen regarding the rules.
Currently, while playing a tournament map, the final battle is being fought by a secondary hero. According to rule 6, it is his primary skills that will be taken into account in the event of a tie in the number of days taken to complete the map. However, the main hero has much higher primary skills. This will obviously affect the final result.
Considering the above, I propose that the primary skills of the hero indicated by the tournament participant in the explanation for the final save should be taken into account.
Sincerely,
This is what might actually be in the rules... I repeat once more, the matter is closed until VDV returns. Take enough screenshots so that you are believed (approximately every 5% of the total battle time).
I have a question for both you and VDV. The screenshots show the ballista, my unit, and the remaining enemy monsters :) What do these screenshots give you? The time and the creation dates of screenshot files can be edited, just like save game times. Furthermore, nothing has been stipulated by the rules yet. My point is that with artmoney, one could fake the remaining monsters in 10 seconds. Another minute to create a screenshot with the required creation time. Sure, there will be a dozen such screenshots. What do they provide if the creation time was calculated correctly? PS. But all this is not as relevant now that vbn has programmed a move automator. Waiting for VDV's verdict.
1. All known bugs have been removed in the licensed version of Heroes 3 with patch 3.2.
2. Since many users do not have this version of the game or the patch, I have decided to allow playing on Platinum or any other version of the game except for WoG, without using bugs!
3. The bugs that I know of and consider as such are: (I will not describe how to execute the bugs)
a) Casting magic twice in one turn. b) Selling artifacts at inflated prices. c) Buying a dead hero (yours or the computer's). d) Digging up the Grail in 1 day.
The remaining minor bugs only negatively affect the player, so I do not consider them as such:
a) When a certain number of monsters of one type are in one slot, their number becomes negative. b) Gold, resources - the same.
4. Since the creators of the game and the patches themselves did not deem it necessary to stop the ballista when the ammunition runs out, the "ballista-killer" can be used indefinitely (until you get bored). In my opinion, this "bug" should be viewed from a different perspective - replace the number of ballista ammunition with an infinity sign.
Good luck with your hunting! May the ballista be with you:) .
Dmitry_A_S:
Your suggestion will definitely be considered for the next tournament. There will be no changes to the rules of this tournament!
P.S. I advise everyone who will attack the well-known event (a surprise from VDV_forever) to provide a description of the FIRST 6 TURNS.
Good luck with your hunt! May Ballista help you :) P.S. I advise everyone who will be attacking the well-known event (a surprise from VDV_forever) to write a description of the FIRST 6 TURNS. Sincerely, VDV_forever
VDV!!! Respect, I didn't make a mistake about you and your resource when I came here. :smile20:
