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So, the question is: Does a stone, a piece of wood, etc., have a spirit? After all, they are called "inanimate objects."
:D
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Posts from Which came first: matter or spirit?
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Which came first: spirit or matter?
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Agilist
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They say that the spirit can do a lot without matter. But what exactly?
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
Ganymed
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2Silvanis
Belief in one's own existence is a delusion of an overactive imagination. If a person perceives the world as a personality, then it is rational and objective, unless they are insane. How can one believe in a chair, for example, if one perceives it as existing in reality? The laws of the world are very clear if they are classified rationally. Where the "theater of the absurd" begins, philosophy ends.
2Nowizard
Everything we see is what we know. The rest are various manifestations of private experience, multiplied, interpreted, and accepted on faith by some part of humanity. To present this as truth is, at the very least, unwise and contradicts common sense. The world is given to us "in sensations," and nothing more, nothing less. Trying to assert belief is meaningless because belief, by its very nature, has no relation to reality and, therefore, cannot be asserted. And in your reasoning, there is precisely an assertion of what happens to souls. But how can we know? We are not given this knowledge, so we don't need it.
By the way, I express my point of view by talking about the inseparability of spirit and matter and the subservient role of the spirit in relation to matter. But this can, at least, be proven by the example of humans, animals, plants, even sacrificial stones, icons, and in general ritual objects, houses, apartments, and dwellings of animals and birds, which also "acquire" their own spirit (however paradoxical it may seem), which proves the subservient role of the spirit in principle, as it follows the needs of matter. And in this lies God's love for his creation. As for the life of the spirit outside of matter, this is an absolutely unknown side to us, and it is pointless to discuss it – it is like beating the air with your hands.
All religious interpretations on this subject are merely opinions, assumptions, and interpretations based on faith, not on knowledge.
Belief in one's own existence is a delusion of an overactive imagination. If a person perceives the world as a personality, then it is rational and objective, unless they are insane. How can one believe in a chair, for example, if one perceives it as existing in reality? The laws of the world are very clear if they are classified rationally. Where the "theater of the absurd" begins, philosophy ends.
2Nowizard
Everything we see is what we know. The rest are various manifestations of private experience, multiplied, interpreted, and accepted on faith by some part of humanity. To present this as truth is, at the very least, unwise and contradicts common sense. The world is given to us "in sensations," and nothing more, nothing less. Trying to assert belief is meaningless because belief, by its very nature, has no relation to reality and, therefore, cannot be asserted. And in your reasoning, there is precisely an assertion of what happens to souls. But how can we know? We are not given this knowledge, so we don't need it.
By the way, I express my point of view by talking about the inseparability of spirit and matter and the subservient role of the spirit in relation to matter. But this can, at least, be proven by the example of humans, animals, plants, even sacrificial stones, icons, and in general ritual objects, houses, apartments, and dwellings of animals and birds, which also "acquire" their own spirit (however paradoxical it may seem), which proves the subservient role of the spirit in principle, as it follows the needs of matter. And in this lies God's love for his creation. As for the life of the spirit outside of matter, this is an absolutely unknown side to us, and it is pointless to discuss it – it is like beating the air with your hands.
All religious interpretations on this subject are merely opinions, assumptions, and interpretations based on faith, not on knowledge.
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
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"So much has gone
and little is new"
David Bowie
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"So much has gone
and little is new"
David Bowie
AlexeyPank
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Even a stone and a stick have a soul. People are just so self-centered that they perceive everything different from themselves as inferior. They used to think that women didn't have souls.
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
OptiMAL
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Even a stone and a stick have a soul. People are just so self-centered that they perceive anything different from themselves as inferior.
:D
AlexeyPank
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How do we know that they simply lie there and serve a purpose? Perhaps the stone that lies beneath our feet is the cornerstone of the world? And the branch broken from a tree is the center of the universe? We judge everything from our own perspective and consider nature to be a workshop. But it is a temple, where everything is in its place, and if the balance is disturbed, everything collapses.
Perhaps a randomly picked stone will cause the end of the world?
Perhaps a randomly picked stone will cause the end of the world?
Мы спасемся? Я не знаю. Верьте...
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
Геройский Интернационал
Клан Homo homini - основатель клана
Член РКСМ с 07.07.07.
ФЛУДОВСКИЕ ССЫЛКИ!- сообщить о бесполезной теме/сообщении.
Tim17
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Ideally, matter cannot exist without spirit. Even your stone or stick has a spirit. It's just that this spirit is insignificant or very small.
Alan
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On the previous page, Silvanis asked a very good question. Let's define the concepts of spirit and matter.
Here, write:
Matter - ....
Spirit - ....
Otherwise, there's a lot of confusion going on... and some people are responding to posts with a completely different understanding of the topics being discussed...
Тьма - это то, что позволяет смертным не забывать, как ярок бывает свет.
Agilist
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I think everyone agrees that matter is the body.
But opinions differ on the concept of "spirit."
I believe it is the consciousness of a person, not the soul (I don't believe in it).
Others believe that spirit = soul.
I suggest not using the word "spirit" and instead writing either "soul" or "consciousness" to avoid confusion.
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
Silvanis
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Interesting, AlexeyPunk, what do you mean by the word "spirit" if you believe that even stones have a soul?
And another question for you, as a panpsychist: consider this: a person consists of many cells; do they each have their own souls? Or, for example, a large mountain – does it have one soul, or many spirits that make up its rocks and stones? And what about plasma or fire, which are extremely unstable?
And another question for you, as a panpsychist: consider this: a person consists of many cells; do they each have their own souls? Or, for example, a large mountain – does it have one soul, or many spirits that make up its rocks and stones? And what about plasma or fire, which are extremely unstable?
С Пути сбивают мелкие достижения, а изощрённые суждения скрывают смысл слов. И вот уже возникают "правильное" и "неправильное"...
- Чжуан-цзы
Сильванис
- Чжуан-цзы
Сильванис
Берсерк
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Let matter appear first. Billions of years pass. Matter remains as it was... dead, bleak, chaotic...
(.....here is the atheist's tale about the possibility of life appearing from dead matter) - Gentlemen! You believe that life can emerge from the dead, and yet you say that the Spirit cannot exist before matter??? Your religion is even less plausible than ours!!!
I will give my old example. Let matter be a two-dimensional space. We live here and cannot (in any way) imagine anything outside of it. Suppose the Spirit lives in a three-dimensional space; do you think it can be outside our plane? Of course, it can! And yet, with no experience living in a two-dimensional space, it is impossible to prove that a three-dimensional space exists! Remove your two-dimensional plane; the one who lives in the three-dimensional space will still remain! This is the most illustrative example I can give.
Added 8 minutes later
So, something or someone can easily exist outside of something, and that's it! Quote: "Everything we see is what we know. The rest are various manifestations of private experience, multiplied, interpreted, and accepted on faith by some part of humanity." Again, Mr. Ganymede is wrong, and terribly wrong!!! 1) Do you know that vision is 90% a purely psychological process? 2) Do you know that what our eye receives is not the whole image; there is a blind spot that we do not perceive, but the brain constructs the image based on experience and its algorithms? 3) Do you know about millions of visual illusions, tests, which line is longer, what is further away, where vision deceives us? And now, answer: how can you make such a critical statement, relying on such a terribly imperfect device for obtaining information, let alone Truth??? I prefer to use logic rather than believe my eyes.
Added 8 minutes later
So, something or someone can easily exist outside of something, and that's it! Quote: "Everything we see is what we know. The rest are various manifestations of private experience, multiplied, interpreted, and accepted on faith by some part of humanity." Again, Mr. Ganymede is wrong, and terribly wrong!!! 1) Do you know that vision is 90% a purely psychological process? 2) Do you know that what our eye receives is not the whole image; there is a blind spot that we do not perceive, but the brain constructs the image based on experience and its algorithms? 3) Do you know about millions of visual illusions, tests, which line is longer, what is further away, where vision deceives us? And now, answer: how can you make such a critical statement, relying on such a terribly imperfect device for obtaining information, let alone Truth??? I prefer to use logic rather than believe my eyes.
Agilist
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Let matter appear first. Billions of years pass. Matter remains as it was... dead, gloomy, chaotic...
(.....here is the atheist's tale about the possibility of life appearing from dead matter) - Gentlemen! You believe that life can emerge from the dead, and at the same time, you say that the Spirit cannot exist before matter??? Your religion is even less plausible than ours!!!
I will give my old example. Let matter be a two-dimensional space. We live here and cannot (in any way) imagine anything outside of it. Suppose the Spirit lives in a three-dimensional space; do you think it can be outside our plane? Of course, it can! And yet, with no experience living in a two-dimensional space, it is impossible to prove that a three-dimensional space exists! Remove your two-dimensional plane; the one who lives in a three-dimensional space will still remain! This is the most illustrative example I can give.
Added 8 minutes later
So, something or someone can easily be outside of something, and that's it!
Quote:
"Everything we see is what we know. The rest are various manifestations of private experience, multiplied, interpreted, and accepted on faith by some part of humanity."
Mr. Ganymede is wrong again, and terribly so!!!
1) Do you know that vision is 90% a purely psychological process?
2) Do you know that what our eye receives is not the whole image; there is a black spot that we do not receive, but the brain completes the image based on experience and its algorithms?
3) Do you know about millions of visual illusions, tests, which line is longer, what is further away, where vision deceives us?
Now, answer: how can you make such a critical statement, relying on such a terribly imperfect device for obtaining information, and even more so, the Truth??? I prefer to use logic rather than believe my eyes.
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
Ganymed
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IMHO:
Matter is something that can be perceived by all the senses of its owner – the subject of consciousness – and is identified by the subject of consciousness as something that actually exists.
Spirit is the astral code of the subject of consciousness (entity), which is read by the astral code of another subject of consciousness (entity) and which can influence the subject of consciousness (entities) in both a positive and a negative way. The astral code is formed in subjects of consciousness (entities) under the influence of various factors.
In subjects of consciousness, it is initially positive because it has a creative purpose. But it can change under the influence of various codes from other subjects of consciousness (entities), and the sum of these codes determines whether the code is positive or negative.
The astral code can be flexible or stable, depending on the subject of consciousness (entity) whose code it is.
The same subject of consciousness (entity) can be both a "receiver of information" and a "transmitter."
The same code from one subject of consciousness (entity) can evoke different meanings in the codes of other subjects of consciousness (entities) – in some, it will be positive, and in others, negative, depending on the state of the codes of the "receivers of information" at the time of "reception."
Subject of consciousness: a person, animal, plant, i.e., "living" nature.
Subject of entity: art, society, ethnicity, religion, etc.
Initially, the codes of subjects of consciousness form the codes of subjects of entities, i.e., they are "transmitters" of information. After the code of the subject of the entity is formed, it (the subject of the entity) itself becomes a "transmitter," and its "receivers" are already subjects of consciousness.
Настоящие герои - не те, пред кем мы преклоняемся, а те, кого мы оплевываем...[/COLOR]
-----------------------------
"So much has gone
and little is new"
David Bowie
-----------------------------
"So much has gone
and little is new"
David Bowie
Agilist
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In my opinion:
Matter is something that can be perceived by all the senses of its owner – the subject of consciousness – and is identified by the subject of consciousness as something that actually exists.
Spirit is the astral code of the subject of consciousness (entity), which is read by the astral code of another subject of consciousness (entity) and which can influence the subject of consciousness (subconsciously) in both a positive and a negative way. The astral code is formed in subjects of consciousness (entities) under the influence of various factors.
In subjects of consciousness, it is initially positive, because it has a creative purpose. But it can change under the influence of various codes of other subjects of consciousness (entities), and the sum of these codes determines whether the code is positive or negative.
The astral code can be flexible or stable, depending on the subject of consciousness (entity) whose code it is.
The same subject of consciousness (entity) can be both a "receiver of information" and a "transmitter."
The same code of one subject of consciousness (entity) can evoke different meanings in the codes of other subjects of consciousness (entities) – in some, it will be positive, and in others, negative, depending on the state of the codes of the "receivers of information" at the moment of "reception."
Subject of consciousness – a person, animal, plant, i.e., "living" nature.
Subject of entity – art, society, ethnicity, religion, etc.
Initially, the codes of subjects of consciousness form the codes of subjects of entities, i.e., they are "transmitters" of information. After the code of the subject of the entity is formed, it (the subject of the entity) itself becomes a "transmitter," and its "receivers" are already subjects of consciousness.
Умирает не тот, кто устал, а тот, кто остановился.
Смок
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Logic, pure logic. Let's consider the situation. A soul floats around the Earth. Since it's not in our plane of existence, it can't change anything here. Where did matter come from then? Situation 2. There was matter on Earth. It didn't think, but it reacted to certain events. What prevents a spirit from inhabiting such matter (for non-atheists), or why can't this organism become more complex and react differently to stimuli, with variations, and eventually become a human being (for atheists)?
For example, a body without a soul and a soul without a body can exist, while a body without consciousness cannot...
Ничего нет только у мёртвого - у живого есть хотя бы жизнь...
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