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Posts from Appeals Committee. Disputed situations in tournaments.

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The_

-further discussion in the Hv rules topic

Everything would be fine, and I would continue arguing with you, but there is also a mistake made by the members of the Arbitration Committee, which confused people earlier. However, one must have their own mind before, for example, doing something like this or saying something like this:
"Before getting involved in a dispute, read the rules. There are forbidden bugs, and there are PERMITTED ones." (C) SKD - meaning it's okay to use them. :D :D
For SKD and everyone else, I'll explain according to Wikipedia: a BUG is a slang term, usually referring to an error in a program or system, which causes the program to produce unexpected behavior and, as a result, an unexpected outcome. Most bugs arise from errors made by program developers in its source code or in its design (this is, by the way, a very mild explanation). Among gamers, the word BUG is usually associated with the word BAN, meaning if you use a BUG, you immediately get a BAN.
If you look at the situation as a whole, and considering that a request was sent to the Higher Authority of our forum section, it can be unequivocally said (even though, in my opinion, the judges made mistakes earlier by expressing their personal opinion) that they made a completely correct decision and found the most optimal solution for everyone without obvious losses in Morality, Ethics, and Interest in the game.
The key word is ERROR; using them is at least incorrect (but that's the minimum).

to The_
Now I partially understand you; judging by your posts, you are considering the Bug in the context of a specific game, and not the use of this BUG by everyone in the future. However, in my opinion, when making a decision on this issue, it was not worth looking at this game as a separate case (as the members of the Arbitration Committee did); it is necessary to look at the use of the bug as a WHOLE, in the FUTURE. The only thing the judges did right when considering Nitro's request was that they did not punish him for what can be called the first (in quotes) official use of this bug.

лето 2012.
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If you're going to delve so deeply into the matter, please provide an interview with the developers of Heroes of Might and Magic III, where they clearly explain what in the game is a bug and what was intentionally designed. Where is the 100% guarantee that the feature with the Special Abilities (SA) was not initially conceived by the developers, given that it is extremely rare? There is no such guarantee. We are already adding our own interpretations, supposedly based on common sense.
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In reply to =Lizard=
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=Lizard=
If you're going to delve so deep, please provide an interview with the developers of Heroes of Might and Magic III, where they clearly explain what was a bug in the game and what was intentionally designed.

Where is the 100% guarantee that the feature with the Special Abilities (SA) was not initially intended by the developers, since it is extremely rare? There is no such guarantee. We are already making assumptions, supposedly based on common sense.

))))))))))))))
You can use this to explain anything, saying "it was intended" ))


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=Lizard=
If you're going to delve so deep, please provide an interview with the developers of Heroes of Might and Magic III, where they clearly explain what in the game is a bug and what was intentionally designed.

Where is the 100% guarantee that the "Skill Points" (SP) feature wasn't initially intended by the developers, since it's a very rare occurrence? There is no such guarantee. We are already adding our own interpretations, supposedly based on common sense.
I don't know what Kostya is talking about, but the fact is that moves in the game are, if not the most valuable resource, then one of the most valuable. And making this resource infinite can be done in other ways, by entering NWCNEBUCHADNEZZAR, although the game will respond with "CHEATER!!!" or "FRAUD!!!" but that's okay:cool:

лето 2012.
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You can quickly enter a password in every game. Using a spell that creates water – it happens in 0.001% of games, and it takes a long time. That’s what I’m talking about. That’s why I gave the example of scoring a goal with your hand in football. For some reason, many people score like that, but they only get a yellow card, and the goals aren’t counted. And only in the rarest cases in history, and (why is that?!) only the very top players (!) manage to do it without punishment and with a result for the team. And they don’t call them “Cheater” or “Deceiver,” but rather praise them.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
In reply to =Lizard=
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=Lizard=
You can enter the password quickly in every game. Using a spell with water takes 0.001% of games and it takes a long time. That's what I'm talking about. That's why I gave the example of scoring with a hand in football. For some reason, many people score this way, but they only get a yellow card, and the goals are not counted. And only in the rarest cases in history, and (why is that?!!!) only the very top players (!!!) manage to do it without punishment and with a result for the team. And they don't call them "Cheater" or "Deceiver," but rather praise them.
In reality, the example is clearly in a different direction, as in football, many goals scored with hands and handballs leading to a goal are actually counted. The issue isn't the player or their level; it's simply that the referee is "asleep."
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=Lizard=
They don't call them "Scammer" or "Deceiver," but rather admire them.
I don't admire such moments in the game, if I understand you correctly.
You're approaching the issue with the idea that if something isn't forbidden, it's allowed. As far as I know, our community pursues goals such as "Honesty" and "Transparency," and the incident in question doesn't align with these goals in any way.

лето 2012.
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Even if this bug can be exploited once in a million attempts, it will still remain a bug, and not a divine game or anything else.
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
In reply to Lider1
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Lider1
Even if this bug can be exploited only once in a million attempts, it will still remain a bug. And not a divine game or something else.
No, you're wrong, I'll exploit the bug and become the star of all stars:D :D :D :D

лето 2012.
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=Lizard=
You can enter the password quickly, and it works in every game. Using the Shrine of the Ancients with water is only effective in 0.001% of games, and it takes a long time.

There's a fix map for LoM (Land of Magic).
Perhaps the most popular hand-drawn map in history.
The Shrine of the Ancients can be collected there with guaranteed results, and in two instances – both red and blue.
So, will the winner on this popular fix be the one who dies first?!! :confused:
"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny
In reply to wowa
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wowa

So, here's an attempt at an answer, although it's not entirely straightforward, as the concept of fairness is still based on subjectivity:
After the aforementioned actions, the game as such was essentially "killed" in that match.
There was neither unfair play nor fair play; there was simply no game at all.
Instead, there was an exploitation of an infinite resource advantage gained through a subjective interpretation of the rules' shortcomings.
And no actions by the opponent could prevent this.
The game implies competition, until the very end, until one of the sides achieves the game objective, equivalent to victory, or someone surrenders.
But where was the competition?
And since there was no game, there's no point in talking about the result.
What turned the game into a mockery? It was due to actions that were supposedly not prohibited, although their legitimacy is highly questionable even from the point of view of the rules in effect at that time.

Here's another question. Is this reasoning applicable to the situation of "killing" the blue player in a castle on day 111 in a game played under anarchy rules? (This is a real situation that occurred in the "Outlaw" tournament.) As you know, in anarchy, all rules are abolished except for the rule of fair play. I invite all proponents of morality to join the discussion: is such a victory considered fair?
ICQ 423164784

In reply to Sanin
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Sanin
Here's another question. Does this reasoning apply to the situation of killing a blue creature in a Castle on level 111 while playing under anarchy rules? (This is a real situation that occurred in the "Outlaw" tournament.) As you know, all rules are abolished in anarchy except for the rule of fair play. I invite all proponents of morality to join the discussion – is such a victory considered fair?
Of course, it is! It's anarchy, and by playing it, you understand what you're getting into.

лето 2012.
In reply to Sanin
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Sanin
Here's another question. Does this reasoning apply to the situation of killing a blue player in a castle on turn 111 in a game played under anarchy rules? (This is a real situation that occurred in the "Outlaw" tournament.) As you know, all rules are canceled in anarchy except for the rule of fair play. I invite all proponents of morality to join the discussion – is such a victory considered fair?

If there are still rests available, the blue player can take a rest when they are killed. If there are no rests left, it's their own fault for not managing them properly. The only thing I would suggest – again, for very rare situations – if the game in anarchy mode doesn't involve changing colors, then in the case where the blue player is killed on turn 111 several times in a row, runs out of rests, and is killed on turn 111 again, then the blue player should be given a technical rest.
http://ru.twitch.tv/lizard_wt
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=Lizard=
If there are still respawn points left, blue can take a respawn when they are killed. If there are no respawn points left, it's their own fault for not respawning earlier. The only thing I would suggest – for again, very rare situations – if the game is played in anarchy mode without changing colors, then in the case where blue is killed on level 111 several times in a row, they run out of respawn points, and are killed on level 111 again, then blue should be given a technical respawn.

I suggest not giving it; it's their own fault :D :D :D


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Well, essentially, this is also exploiting a bug (a bug in generation/shifted guards), and everything Vova wrote applies here: one player has no way to resist the other, and the game ends before it even begins. Is this game-breaking or not?
ICQ 423164784

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