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Tournament Committee
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Offline Hiwanna
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#6709
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Javdet
Thanks, I had a good laugh.
It's nice to feel like the gray cardinal of HeroesWorld:D, especially since I only communicated with one AK member, who had already made up his mind at that point.

And by the way, next time decline your cases correctly;)

Guys, regarding features and bugs we need to finally decide. The ability to eat up a map in one turn simply cannot be a feature.

So the decision has already been made by AK regarding this - AFTER the Redwhite - Nitro game, using this bug became forbidden. And based on this, along with "common sense," of course, where would we be without it?! a replay was appointed.
But the sequence of measures taken regarding Redwhite remains a mystery. Or did AK privately punish Redwhite with a replay, and only then were rule amendments adopted based on this? In that case, it's not me who is taking on too much, but the common sense that AK is guided by.
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Offline Javdet
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#6710
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I checked the chat on Twaryny's stream, and some players seem invincible. What's the point of rules, anyway? There are enough players on GameRanger who play without any rules and are very happy. We created rules to address the highly unbalanced aspects of the game on random maps, for the sake of balance. Now, let's compare: can upgrading to Phoenixes or buffing a Necromancer compare to an infinite turn? Well? Everyone who is Je suis Redwhait, please answer. Even if it's just to yourself. If Phoenixes are overpowered, then infinite turns are even more overpowered... Then another question arises: was it fair to use such things?
Yes, Heroes is, to some extent, a competition of luck, but why bring this wonderful game to the point of absurdity?
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline Dima Surmay
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#6711
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Nitro
I won't replay against Redwhite. Many believe the victory was fair, and it doesn't matter to me. Let Reddy keep the win in this game.
I'm glad that AK (Arbitration Committee) reacted and made some kind of decision. The precedent itself is important. Did you find some kind of bug? Report it to AK, give them some time, and then demand that the rules prohibit or allow its use. The rules need to be improved together. All the best.
P.S. I would suggest adding all known bugs to the rules, and if some new bug is used (if it significantly affected the course of the game in the opinion of AK), AK should reserve the right to apply sanctions "retroactively."

I understand that Reddy will be given a technical victory, and because of this, it is very likely that Redwhite will not be eliminated from the group. Well done, Nitro.
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Offline Hiwanna
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#6712
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As I understand it, Nitro asked AK: "Did Redwhite violate the rules of fair play, and if so, will any sanctions be applied to him?" There are no complaints against Nitro in this regard because he did not directly call for a replay but asked a perfectly reasonable question. If AK made a decision to replay, which essentially constitutes these sanctions against Redwhite, then it means he violated the rules of the game established by AK itself. However, as we can see in practice, Redwhite did not violate the rules of the game in effect at that time, and the "common sense" that AK used is devoid of common sense?!

What was all this demagoguery for? Either AK should give a "black mark" and ban the player for violating the rules, or (if the rules were not violated after all) no action should be taken regarding the already completed game, as this game was won FAIRLY and according to all the rules written by AK. There can be no talk of a technical victory here!

The right to edit the rules for subsequent games, of course(!), remains with AK, and no one is arguing with that.

P.S. I just want to understand this situation!
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Offline Nitro
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#6713
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Dima Surmay
I understand that Reddit will be given a technical victory, and because of this, it is very likely that RedWhite will not advance from the group, oh well, Nitro...
Great idea! But I think technical victories are only awarded in case of disqualification. So it won't work :D
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Offline Javdet
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#6714
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In short, AK is to blame for everything. The fact that only Dirty knew about such precedents, and that no official applications were received, doesn't seem to bother anyone. In this case, I would like to wish all the dissatisfied to earn authority on the forum, like Dirty, Pete, Homunculus, etc. The second stage is to get into AK. And finally, bingo - to sort out the mess, resolve conflicts, and still be a bad guy for a certain audience. Moreover, some of these dissatisfied people are dissatisfied because of their beliefs, while the rest are dissatisfied with everything and always)))) In general, Hivanna and co: good luck, guys;)
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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Offline zoog
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#6715
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Javdet
Now, let's compare: can upgrading to Phoenixes or buffing a Necromancer compete with an infinite turn?
1) No, I don't see any point in banning Phoenixes.
2) Yes, a 100% buff in games versus an infinite turn in 0.001% of games – easily.

Added after 32 seconds
But why bring this wonderful game to such an absurd level?
Just for lulz.
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Offline Piterius
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#6716
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Nitro
I won't replay against Redwhite. Many believe the victory was fair, and it doesn't matter to me. Let Reddi keep the win in this game.

Don't jump to conclusions; "many" won't even amount to a dozen. By the way, I'm happy to note everyone who shows a rejection of common sense. Please be bolder in joining the ranks of those who would readily take advantage of this bug and then loudly proclaim their victory was fair. A special message to Mr. Hiwanna: please hold your horses, because it seems like you just arrived from a hussar regiment and are now slapping everyone around. Everyone who reads this already understands your position, so each new iteration is just pointless trolling. Read the rules more carefully, especially the part about allowed bugs and features.
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

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Offline Dima Surmay
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#6717
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Piterius
Don't jump to conclusions; there won't even be a dozen of them. By the way, I'm happy to mark everyone who shows a rejection of common sense. I encourage those who would readily exploit this bug without hesitation and then boast about their "fair" victory to step forward.

There are members of the Arbitration Committee in these ranks.
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Offline skd
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#6718
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I'm very glad that a precedent has finally been set, and this bug will be banned.
In this whole situation, I only have one question: why wasn't this fixed when the bug was used in fan games or unsuccessfully in a tournament game (Kobra vs myduck are good examples).
Why did it have to wait until someone used this bug in a game that has significant weight and caused this uproar?
When all reasonable players understand that, if possible, using the bug with the Scroll of Alacrity with a sufficient timer will result in an easy win. And why are sanctions being imposed on Redwait, when he acted in the same way that other players had acted without consequences before him.

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Offline Hiwanna
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#6719
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Piterius
Don't jump to conclusions; there won't even be a dozen of them. By the way, I'm happy to note everyone who shows a rejection of common sense. I encourage those who would readily exploit this bug and then loudly complain about their "fair" victory to step forward more boldly.

A special request to Mr. Hiwanna: please hold back. It seems like you just rode in from a hussar regiment and are now slapping around all the unwashed commoners. Everyone reading this already understands your position, so each new iteration is just pointless trolling. Read the rules more carefully, especially the part about permitted bugs and features.

In what sense is it a "fair victory"? A victory achieved according to the rules is, I believe, fair. Regardless of the tactics used, as long as they are not prohibited. As they say, "All is fair in love and war."
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Offline злой_романтик
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#6720
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Dima Surmay
there are members of the Arbitration Committee in these ranks
Could you provide the names of at least 2 members of the Arbitration Committee?
skd
I am very glad that a precedent has finally been set and this bug will be banned.
In the current situation, I only have one question: why wasn't this fixed when the bug was used in fan games or unsuccessfully in a tournament game (Kobra vs myduck is a favorite example).
Why did it have to wait until someone used this bug in a game that has significant weight and caused this mess?
When all reasonable players understand that, if possible, using the spell-casting bug with a sufficient timer will result in an easy win. And why are sanctions being imposed on Redwait when he acted in the same way that other players had acted without consequences before him.
I will answer again on my own behalf – I didn't see that game in the favorites where this bug was used; it just passed me by. But in this case, an official complaint was filed with the Arbitration Committee, so I personally paid attention to it.
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Offline Piterius
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#6721
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Dima Surmay
there are members of the Arbitration Committee in these ranks

But what if we move beyond words and speculation?
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

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Offline Sanin
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#6722
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Piterius
Don't jump to conclusions; there aren't even ten of them. By the way, I happily make a note of everyone who shows a rejection of common sense and logic.

Everyone has their own idea of common sense, which is why we use rules and regulations to ensure everyone is on a level playing field and can compare their understanding of common sense with the general requirements for all. No one seems to be arguing that this is a bug and that it should be banned. The question is: why is a replay being ordered based on rules that were changed after the game was played? And the position of the Arbitration Committee (AK) remains unclear: did Redwhite violate the rules of fair play? And if so, should we understand that in the future, if someone violates the rules of fair play, the sanction for this will be the appointment of a replay? There must be some consistency in decisions.
LuckyF
Remembering the match between Lizard and Toganash, where in a completely won game for Lizard, due to nitpicking in the rules in a situation that had absolutely no impact on anything: after an arrow failed to take effect due to resistance and a bribe, the decision to order a replay was made on unclear grounds... It's becoming especially funny.

In a similar situation in the match between YaR and Chemist_HP in OFB-8, when the rules were violated but did not affect the outcome, the violator was acquitted.
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Offline LuckyF
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#6723
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Piterius
Don't jump to conclusions; there won't even be a dozen of them. By the way, I'm happy to note everyone who shows a rejection of common sense. I encourage those who would readily exploit this bug without hesitation and then boast about their "fair" victory to step forward.
Where was your "common sense" when the result of the Lizard vs. Toganash match was decided...? There was at least as little of it there as in this situation, but somehow the decision was made in the opposite direction.
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