Discussion of level 2 monsters. — General

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/6/2015 3:58 PM UTC #1

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There are threads about levels 1, 3, and 4, but for some reason, there isn't one about level 2.

So, which level 2 monster do you think is the strongest and most useful, and why?

Personally, I think it's the ballista. Individually, they might be weaker than golden golems or minotaurs, but thanks to their abilities, they can be considered one of the best ranged units in the game overall. They are slow, of course, but I think that can be forgiven.

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Registered: 2/1/2011 3:23 PM UTC

Posts: 222

2/8/2015 12:42 PM UTC #2

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A difficult choice. I was torn between golems and tigers, but I voted for the latter out of personal preference. These two units pose a real threat early in the game due to their high hit points and speed, plus they deal good damage and have a good first strike ability.

In reply to ColdWarrior

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/8/2015 2:52 PM UTC #3

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nikitos palisos

A difficult choice. I was torn between golems and tigers, but I voted for the latter out of personal preference. These two are a real threat at the beginning due to their survivability and high speed, plus decent damage and the first strike ability of the tigers.

And how are tigers, for example, better than nomads? They are also durable, have a first strike, and high speed. And they cost less.

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Registered: 2/25/2011 11:21 AM UTC

Posts: 1,011

2/9/2015 1:56 PM UTC #4

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It's a complex question. There isn't really a universally "best" monster here. While you could argue that a ballista is the best ranged attacker, it significantly slows down the army on the march. It all depends on the specific situation. In large numbers, any of these monsters will pose a threat. I think I'll vote for golems because of their resilience (usually in defense). Tigers and nomads are quite similar in their stats and are designed for attack, but despite their initial strike, they aren't very durable in a fight.
Beholders are decent, but they're only useful as mages. Fighting against them is unpleasant, and you can't build a strong attack force out of them.

Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html

Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html

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Registered: 10/30/2009 8:59 AM UTC

Posts: 31,055

2/9/2015 2:41 PM UTC #5

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I looked at the list... Oh, things are really bad on the second tiers! I'm voting for the Medusa. I don't know how, but they always take out half the army. I could have voted for the Eyeballs, but since they can't be recruited in the city, there's not much point in voting for them.

К А
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In reply to dnaop-wr

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/9/2015 2:50 PM UTC #6

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dnaop-wr

A difficult question. There isn't really a universally strong monster here. And while you could consider the Ballista the best ranged unit, it severely slows down the army on the march.

That's absolutely true. Level 2, in my opinion, is the most balanced in the game; on the others, there's always someone very weak and someone very strong (like Ogres and Vampires on level 3), but on level 2, everyone can be the best in a certain situation. But I still think the Ballista is a versatile unit – its ability to shoot without penalty through walls is unmatched, and almost all other monsters have their own "counter-abilities." I agree that Ballistas are unfortunately very slow, but in Haven, you can build a stable, which partially compensates for this disadvantage.

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Registered: 10/30/2011 1:01 AM UTC

Posts: 323

2/10/2015 10:18 AM UTC #7

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In my opinion, ballistas can only be effectively used for defending a castle and during a systematic advance against the enemy. Due to their slowness, you can easily fall behind in development compared to your opponent, and stockpiling them in your castle is simply not worthwhile if you don't use them. It's better to build spearmen (excellent warriors with a superior ability) for normal development, and hire ballistas in a separate building, or in a second town (although it's more advantageous to build spearmen there if you're already building them in the first town). And I consider the golden golem to be the best fighter. It has a very high amount of health at level two and excellent stats. It can be used (and should be) as cover for djinn (although the opposite is also possible: take mages at level two - they are good with their spellbook, but they are very fragile, and as cover - and not only as cover - for example, with teleport and blessings, send them into the enemy's territory).

Наш мир полон тайн и чудес.
Многие их ищут, многим они вовсе не нужны, а многие даже не замечают их, не понимают что они вокруг нас, каждый день, везде.
А эти чудеса порой, сокрыты в обычных, привычных предметах.

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Registered: 2/25/2011 11:21 AM UTC

Posts: 1,011

2/10/2015 11:10 AM UTC #8

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Jellyfish are very dangerous ranged units, primarily due to their ability (to decimate half an army with endless arrows). However, firstly, this ability to decimate half an army only works on living units (similar to the powerful gargoyle's gaze from Heroes of Might and Magic III), and secondly, if a strong melee unit from the enemy reaches the jellyfish, their lack of a melee penalty won't save them – they will fall too quickly. Otherwise, they are one of the best offensive units at their level, although they won't survive against ballistae.

Техника в руках индейца мертва.
Справочник по НоММ-4 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-heroes-iv.html

Памятка по НоММ-3 http://handbookhmm.ru/pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii.html
и HotA http://handbookhmm.ru/vyishla-obnovlennaya-pamyatka-dlya-homm-iii-hota.html

In reply to Силос Занж

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/10/2015 11:07 PM UTC #9

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Silos Zanj

In my opinion, ballistas can only be used for defending a castle and for a systematic advance against the enemy. Due to their slowness, you can easily lose out on development compared to your opponent, and stockpiling them in the castle is simply not profitable if you don't use them. It's better to build pikemen (who are excellent warriors with a superb ability) for normal development, and hire ballistas in a separate building, or in a second town (although it's more profitable to build pikemen there if you're already building them in the first town). And I consider the Golden Golem to be the best fighter. It has a very high amount of health at level 2 and excellent stats. It can be used (and should be) as cover for Djinns (although the opposite is also possible: take mages at level 2 - they are good with their spellbook, but they are too weak, and as cover (and not only as cover - for example, with teleport and blessings, send them into the enemy's territory) - nag).

I think that ballistas are actually more useful, at least in the early game. They fight perfectly alongside crossbowmen, but with pikemen, you'll suffer heavy losses; their defense is barely better than that of mages, and attacking through a cell doesn't help much. Ballistas are ideal for sieging a town and for defense as well; if they are placed on a tower, you're in good shape. And besides, if you do build pikemen, you'll have to build monks later, and they are less useful than ballistas; Crusaders are much better than pikemen. Medusas are more practical than minotaurs and more useful in the early game, but I still prefer minotaurs; they have an ability, like ballistas, that is effective against any enemy. I respect golems and build them more often, although mages are one of the best in the early game - while halflings with accuracy shoot down neutral creatures of the first level, mages raise skeletons, which finish off the rest. But in serious battles, mages are practically useless, so golems are better.

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Registered: 1/4/2012 4:47 PM UTC

Posts: 2,114

2/11/2015 5:43 PM UTC #10

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if you're going to build pikemen, you'll have to build monks later.

Why monks, though? In my opinion, the choice is obvious for Life on the 3rd level – crusaders.
And from the 2nd level, cerberuses are probably the best. Yes, they are not as durable as golems or minotaurs, but they are quite fast and have an area-of-effect attack... They are useful in all situations.

In reply to Niemand

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/12/2015 9:13 AM UTC #11

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I meant that you'll have to build Monks to have a decent ranged attacker, but unfortunately, they are susceptible to forgetfulness, the Swarm of Bees spell, and other unpleasant things, and they don't shoot without a penalty... Crossbowmen won't be effective as the main ranged unit. P.S. Cerberi under the influence of a Vampire are beasts!

In reply to Пашкент

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Registered: 10/30/2011 1:01 AM UTC

Posts: 323

2/13/2015 8:39 AM UTC #12

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Pashkent

I think ballistas are more useful, at least in the early game. They fight well alongside crossbowmen, but with spearmen, you'll suffer heavy losses. Their defense is barely better than that of mages, and the attack through the front row doesn't help much. Ballistas are ideal for sieging cities and for defense as well; if they're placed on a tower, you're in good shape. Besides, if you do decide to build spearmen, you'll have to build monks later, and they're less useful than ballistas. Crusaders are much better than spearmen. Medusas are more practical and useful than minotaurs in the early game, but I still prefer minotaurs. Like ballistas, they have an ability that's effective against any enemy. I respect golems and build them more often, although mages are one of the best units in the early game – while halflings with their accuracy decimate neutral level 1 creatures, mages raise skeletons, which finish off the rest. But in serious battles, mages are practically useless, so golems are better.

Yes, ballistas are good for reducing losses, for breaking through neutral creatures, and for fighting the enemy. Their slowness can be solved with artifacts that speed up the army (although these artifacts still need to drop). This is one of those cases in Heroes where the choice isn't entirely clear-cut (unlike cyclops and ogre mages, etc.). There's also another question: who should you take in the City of Nature (not counting cases where there's no wood and you have to take tigers anyway)?

Наш мир полон тайн и чудес.
Многие их ищут, многим они вовсе не нужны, а многие даже не замечают их, не понимают что они вокруг нас, каждый день, везде.
А эти чудеса порой, сокрыты в обычных, привычных предметах.

In reply to Силос Занж

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Registered: 11/8/2010 5:55 PM UTC

Posts: 38

2/13/2015 11:09 AM UTC #13

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Zanj's Silo

There is another question: who should you recruit in the Nature town (excluding cases where there is no wood and you always need to recruit tigers).

I prefer tigers. Look, elves attack twice, but their damage is half that of tigers, and it also has a penalty. Tigers have higher attack and defense, and speed, with only a slight decrease in growth. The choice in favor of tigers is also due to the fact that, in my opinion, they are the only strong melee units for Nature until level 4, because griffins and unicorns are not very strong due to their low combat stats. The only advantage of elves is that they are better at defending the town, but otherwise, they need accuracy or a crossbow that allows them to shoot without a penalty (I don't remember the name).

In reply to Пашкент

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Registered: 2/1/2011 3:23 PM UTC

Posts: 222

2/15/2015 7:21 PM UTC #14

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Pashkent

What makes tigers, for example, better than nomads? They are also resilient, have a strong first strike, and high speed. And they cost less.

I voted based on personal preference.

I also remembered that trolls are excellent as meat shields, but it was never possible to create the core of an army with them due to the rarity of their dwellings. But overall, they are a worthy replacement for golems.