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scorp
You can hack anything! Why and what a cheater uses – come up with any explanation, and it will work.

You can hack anything. But only a few are capable of doing it. And how many of them are among Heroes players? Is there any data? My opinion is that there are few. And how many of those who can are not honest? I think even fewer. There is even a suggestion that they can be counted on the fingers of one hand.

Regarding any explanation, how about this:
I cheat quietly, open the map, see the location of the opponent, see where all the goodies are, but I don't take them. I know the composition of the dungeons, hives, and strongholds. I know everything. I see where the cool artifacts for stats and control are. But I don't go there. I avoid them. I disguise myself for realism, so as not to be noticed. And even slow down the pace, so as not to be conspicuous. That's how I play the whole game. I lose in the game, but I don't get caught. And even if I lose completely, that's okay. That's just my style of play.

Of course, with all my abilities, if they allow me to dig for the Grail, I will immediately run there with one hero and dig it up with one shovel. Although, no. That would be too obvious. It's better to do it with all 8 right away. After all, what is most important in the game?
Not victory. But the Grail.

Quite a logical story.

And seriously, this means: a cheater, if he is going to cheat, can use all the possibilities, and not just one. That's all the "any explanation".
scorp

I think this is a solution, but if not, then should I not play at all?

Well, you're not playing anyway. But let's assume you are playing :D

If you think this is a solution, play. If you don't think it's a solution, then:
a) play by the rules,
b) or, yes, don't play at all.

Are there any other options? There aren't really many options in this format.
scorp

The systemic approach is already a matter of priorities, what you want to get from Hmm3, and it's up to you to decide whether to adapt or create your own, play a tournament with "rigid, meaningless rules" (c) or come up with your own and find an opponent who agrees with them.

What is this word salad? Is there no third option? Even if the community is ready for it? (if it is ready, of course) Or are the rules as unshakeable as God's commandments?

Of course not, the rules are absolutely perfect and cannot be changed in any way. What other priorities can be obtained from the game?
They are very simple:

"The more possibilities, the more interesting the game" (c)

And I will add: if this does not create an especially devastating imbalance.

It reminds me a little of how the conversation smoothly turns into a similar one about the 4th level specialists.

"No, they shouldn't be unbanned, they are too cheaty. We've been playing with their ban for so long. They are so cheaty. First, you need to build a Guild Hall. Otherwise, it's against the rules. Just, you can't do it any other way."

But after they are unbanned, cheaty Loins don't seem to dominate the reports. If, for example, Solmyr, Dimir, and Aislin can at least inflict some damage and pose a threat, then, for example, Xerons are just a facepalm. Well, on M maps, any mages rule, that's understandable. But I'm not talking about them.

Although, if you remember the old vote, a lot of people voted that they are so terrible and powerful. And why? We are following a well-trodden path and are afraid to change anything. Although now no one even remembers them. Of course, this is a bit hypocritical and double standards from the "purists", but we won't bring up this topic.
scorp

interesting question, it is rather necessary to test in real matches, I think worthy bonuses for these castles (map and magic), in addition to the increase in the conflux (6 units of level 7)

This is the most reasonable suggestion. It is precisely in real matches that it is necessary to test. Statistics are needed. Not pulled out of thin air, not from primordial fears, and who knows where else. But from real games.

Wait, did I understand correctly, "Open the entire map" and "all magic" are worthy bonuses. And an increase of 6 units is an imbalance? ))
Well, without the Grail, there will be no increase in the conflux anyway. That's clear.
But the fact that if there is an opportunity to see the entire map at once, that's just a cheat, in my opinion.
scorp

the Grail is one artifact, one thing that gives all the described bonuses, the Legion Statue is a collection of +s, and you also need to kill computers that have built 2000+2000+1000 gold - it's not very comparable even in terms of days of implementation, how can the statue be dug up on the first/second day

I wish you the same proportional luck in poker, so that you dig up the Grail on the first or second day :D
Kill the computers? Is that a problem for anyone? The main thing is that he has time to build it.
Dagr
What about the Grail in Necropolis?

And the Necropolis will always and everywhere rule. With it or without it. Only the probability of getting the Grail itself is extremely low.
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За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
In reply to Lider1
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I think it's best to start with templates, not Castles. The fewer zones on the map and the smaller the map itself, the easier it is to find the Grail. For example, on Jebus, if you find it in the first week, it will significantly impact the game. And in the case of these templates, the question arises: why should the Tower and Conflux be disadvantaged? What if I don't have any other cities? The Tower isn't a strong Castle anyway, so let it have this advantage. Another option could be: if a player places a Grail in a Tower, they must inform their opponent about it on the same day, and from that moment on, the Cartographer can be used. (It's a bit complicated, but fixing the weak Tower isn't the right approach.) A Grail in a Conflux, on the other hand, is an excellent solution to the constant struggle of finding control. In general, I see the Grail as a way to add variety to the game. If an opponent is putting pressure on you, you dig up a Grail and place it, even if it's in a Swamp; stats increase by 10, and you have a chance to fight back, especially against Shackles and the like. But what if I don't have a Swamp, but I do have a Tower and a Conflux? And again, there's no variety. But digging it up with 111 – I'm against that. The fewer zones, the higher the probability that the Grail will be in your starting zone. In the first week, there are usually more free moves, but by the third or fourth week, the chains are tight, and all heroes are needed. That is, if you repel a couple of Obelisks and realize that the Grail is in your zone, it's not difficult to dig it up in the first week. On HotA, the probability is lower, but it remains. And a Grail dug up in the first week will simply decide the game.
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In reply to Sanin
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to Lider1, do you play? If yes, and you want to play with Graal, can't you find someone who agrees? If not, why would one non-player convince another non-player not to play? Why? :D
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A proposal has been made to meet in Kaliningrad:
/topic/at/767027/
Моды для HeroesV:
NHF 0.90 : NHF - группа в VK

Карты для HeroesV:
Путешествие , Условие крови , Рука судьбы.Часть 1: В поход , Рука судьбы.Часть 2: Отчаянье , Рука судьбы.Часть 3: Восхождение , Стойкость
Абсолютная власть , Иду на Вы! , Корона Ургаша , На задворках
Мир надо уничтожить... Чтобы создать свой...
In reply to scorp
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scorp
to Lider1, are you playing?
Yes, sometimes.
scorp

if yes + you want to play with Grail - can't find someone who agrees?, if not, why would one non-player convince another non-player not to play :D why? :D

That's not the point. The point is: What is the meaning of the ban?

Is it because of the fear that someone, 1 out of 1000, will hack the map and see where it is located?

Pillars are generated, but you can't use their main bonus - this clearly impoverishes the game. Why? and what is all this for?

Some suggest removing them altogether. To compensate for the value. And even that option is better (in my opinion) than what we have now.
And now, in its current state, is this pure SoD? No. A double ban. You can't have the Grail, and you can't replace it with something useful. And why can't you? because it deviates from the ideology of pure SoD :D.
But banning the Grail is definitely pure SoD. And it doesn't contradict anything :D

A partial ban only in the Conflux and Tower is better than a complete ban.
And it increases the variability of the game.

At least start with that.

Added 23 minutes ago
Sanin
I think it's worth starting with templates, not with castles. The fewer zones on the map and the smaller the map itself, the easier it is to find the Grail.

You're right. I didn't think about that at first.
For testing, it would be good to test this on HL+U templates.
And see if it's as scary as they say.
Sanin

and why should the Tower and Conflux be restricted? What if I don't have any other cities?

Because the cartographer and all the magic will give an incredible advantage over the opponent. Of course, you can find a lot of things on Jebus. As someone, I don't remember who, said that you can arrange the word "happiness" with teapots.
And Pandora is not that rare either.

But firstly: it's not just about Jebus.
And secondly: it's better to do everything gradually.
Sanin

The Tower is already not a strong castle, let it have this advantage. You can also consider this option: in the case of installing the Grail in the Tower, the player must inform the opponent about this on the same day, and from that moment on, the cartographer can be used. (it's a bit complicated, but fixing the weak Tower is not a good idea)
It seems a bit convoluted.
And it changes the gameplay a lot.
Besides, there is a possibility that someone will build it purely in a secondary city. But that's not the same as a starting city. Should we focus on the starting city?
I still think that this should be introduced gradually.
And the shorter and clearer the wording, the better.
Sanin

The Grail in the Conflux, in turn, is an excellent answer to the constant struggles with finding control.

The Grail in the Conflux is 80% of the way to immediately winning the game. Synonym for the word "IMBA".
Sanin

In general, I look at the Grail as a way to add variety to the game. So, the opponent is putting pressure on you, and you dig up the Grail and place it, even in a swamp, stats increase by 10, and there is a chance to fight, especially with shackles, etc. But what if I don't have a swamp, but I have a Tower and a Conflux? And again, no variety.

I haven't watched your games, but judging by the fact that the condition constantly repeats 2 cities, and there are no other cities - you like to play Jebus :D
Sanin

But digging it up with 111 - I'm against it. The fewer zones, the higher the probability that the Grail will be in your starting zone. In the first week, there are usually more free moves, but in the third or fourth week, the chains are stretched, and all the heroes are needed. That is, when you repel a couple of obelisks and realize that the Grail is in your zone, it is not difficult to dig it up in the first week. On HL+U, the probability is lower, but it remains. And the Grail, dug up in the first week, will simply win the game.

Firstly, even in the first week, if you are busy digging, it is not a fact that you will be able to dig it up quickly.
Secondly, you will suffer a colossal setback in development. And if someone visits you, the story with the Capitol Builders will repeat itself :D. This is a very big risk. And a lot of trouble.

But the fact that it will bring at least a small, but some variety to the game. That's for sure.
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In reply to Lider1
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Lider1

I haven't watched your games, but judging by the fact that only 2 towns keep appearing in the conditions, and no others - you like playing Jebus Cross :D

I'm only talking about these two towns because you're the one suggesting to restrict them.
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Lider1
Having the Grail in Conflux is like having an 80% chance of winning the game right away. It's synonymous with the word "OP" (overpowered).
apparently, that's why it "bothered" you that I considered having all magic as a worthy bonus.

Added 12 minutes later
Lider1
What's the point of the ban?
I'll answer with two options:
1) "What's the point of banning diplomacy?"

2) - How much sugar would you like in your tea?
-- 54 spoons, but don't stir it too much, I don't like it too sweet.
In reply to scorp
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scorp
apparently, that's why you were "upset" that I considered all magic to be a worthy bonus.

I'll answer with two options:
1) "what's the point of banning diplomacy?"

So, decide whether it's a "worthy bonus" or something else that they're banning diplomacy for. Diplomacy is also a very "worthy bonus" :D
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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The Grail can be allowed on XL-sized maps and larger, but to do this, the Grail's bonuses need to be reworked for Tower, Conflux, and the Grail's own bonus should be slightly reduced, because the winner is the one who values every little thing, so let the Grail not be so valuable.
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Миха#7845
Ландау лев https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNj_9EQxDoI&t=1174s

Тут делимся книгами /topic/at/1139927/
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I don't see any problems with placing the Grail in the Conflux or the Tower. I've played many times without any rules, and no one tried to dig up the Grail.
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Hey, does anyone know where I can download a purely English version of the game? Or maybe it's possible to change the language somewhere in the game's folder? Update: I downloaded the complete version from x3tv, and it's in English. Hooray!
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Aren't the versions on heroes3.tv in English?
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Lider1
So, are you going to decide whether it's a "worthy bonus" or something else that they prohibit diplomacy for? Diplomacy is also a very "worthy bonus" :D
Did I write anywhere that I changed my mind? Then, drop the metaphor about diplomacy and leave only the second option of the answer.
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scorp
Did I write somewhere that I changed my mind? Then, drop the metaphor about diplomacy and leave only the 2nd answer option.
Then, what is the point of banning diplomacy?
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In reply to Dirty_Player
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Dirty_Player
I don't see any problems with placing the Grail in a confluence or a tower. I've played many games without rules, and no one rushed to dig for the Grail.
I agree. In many tournament games without rules, I never dug for it. Although I always wanted to.
However, about 15 years ago, I gathered like-minded people in the city of Dreamcatcher, 8 people. We played in a circle. We played Might and Magic without a dungeon. Out of 7 games, I managed to place the Grail in 2 of them. I lost one of these games due to a conflict: my opponent took a couple of utopias before attacking my castle.
About 6 years ago, I played with a friend according to the rules, but we allowed digging for the Grail. We played a Large map, with a 2cm4d3 template. Based on the three obelisks, I determined that the Grail was located on my starting area, near the Guardian. I started digging with 3-4 heroes. After a week (3-4 attempts with all heroes), I dug up the Grail. My opponent, seeing that I had stopped digging for the Grail (and even then, before the mod, you could right-click on your capital and see the income in the opponent's capital) and the movement of my Hero towards the capital, immediately surrendered. Since then, we started playing according to the rules )).
I've played several games in GameRanger. I sometimes dug up the Grail (I didn't play maps larger than Large-U in GameRanger).
P.S. IMHO, obelisks often have artifacts and strong guards, which often creates blockades. That's why I like War of the Ancients, because there are no obelisks and the probability of a blockade is reduced, and accordingly, fewer restarts due to blockades.

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