OFB-8 — Tournament History online

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Announcement

злой_романтик

3/9/2014 12:50 PM UTC

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The time has come and so... drumroll... the qualifying tournament for FB-8 is declared open :smile44:

I. Regulations and Deadlines

The qualifying tournament will be held using the "Swiss" system

Start of the tournament: April 1, 2014; registration until March 29, 2014 inclusive

Time limit per round: 2 weeks - technical losses will be assigned without regard to opinions or authority (the sole exception is CIS-14 in Minsk)
Players have the right to arrange a convenient time among themselves, but if an agreement cannot be reached, the critical time for playing is the night from Saturday to Sunday of the first week. (if the game was not completed in one session, then during the second week). In case one player fails to show up at the set time, the other must write to the organizer or one of the judges, and when the tech result is assigned, this will be the main argument.
This clause is not subject to discussion.

7 players advance to the final stage.

II. Rules and Templates.

1. By default, games are played according to /topic/10593/
2. By default, the game version is SoD 3.2 (4.0); by mutual agreement, WT or any other version of HOMM3.

3.The template for each round will be determined as follows - during registration, each participant must indicate 5 favorite templates; from all these templates, 9 will be selected (depending on the number of participants and the number of rounds, respectively). Then the selected templates are randomly "shuffled" and a list is compiled (e.g., 1-2sm4d3, 2-mininoszta, 3-Jebus Cross, 4-skirmish, etc.). In the 1st round, players ban templates that "came up" under numbers 1, 2, 3 (i.e., banning occurs from 2sm4d3, mininoszta, and Jebus Cross). In the next round, banning occurs from templates 2, 3, 4 (mininoszta, Jebus Cross, skirmish), etc. In the last 7th (9th) round, banning will occur from templates 7 (9), 1, 2. Red starts the ban

4. Town selection: standard ban. Blue starts the ban. Colors are determined during the draw and do not change with restarts.

A win awards 1 point, a draw 0.5, a loss 0.
The winners, and accordingly those who qualify for FB, will be 7 people.
The winner is determined by the total number of points scored. In case of a tie in points, additional tiebreakers apply.
1) Buchholz Coefficient
2) Head-to-head result

III. Organizational Matters
1. The tournament is official and regular.
2. The tournament is conducted according to the Rules for Organizing, Conducting, and Participating in Tournaments.
3. Tournament Host: zloi_romantic (296524052)
Tournament Judges: Pit for LM (471401475), Dirty_Player (ICQ 408722873).
4. For each game played, participants must submit a report and confirmation.
5. Saves of all games must be kept until the end of the tournament and presented at the first request of the tournament hosts or any AC member.
6. Regarding controversial issues, if any arise, please discuss them outside the forum. To resolve them, contact the host or a tournament judge via ICQ and provide daily saves, ICQ logs, and other necessary information.
The judges' decision is made primarily based on the tournament rules. If the situation that arises is not regulated by the rules, then the judges will be guided by basic logic and gaming ethics.
7. All tournament games count towards the season rating. Reports and confirmations are written in this thread and will be copied to the "Game Reports and Confirmations Online" thread. I.e., there is NO need to duplicate reports in the seasonal thread.
8. The final part of the tournament will be held using a round-robin system.

IV. Participants
1. Experienced players from HW and other gaming resources are invited to the tournament.
2. Newcomers who have shown good results are allowed (applications will be considered on an individual basis).
3. Newly registered players are not allowed to participate in the tournament (exception: active players from other gaming resources; applications will be considered on an individual basis).
4. Players who have a BWP are not eligible to participate in the tournament. If any player is awarded a BWP during the tournament, they will be disqualified and their results annulled.
5. Applications from undisciplined players who have repeatedly "ditched" tournaments may be rejected.
6. The organizers reserve the right to refuse a user participation in the tournament without publicly explaining the reasons.
7. The Winner and 2nd-3rd place finishers of the FB-7 tournament are NOT allowed to participate in the qualifiers.
8. The tournament application must include:
- 5 most favorite templates
- convenient time for playing
9. Players Gomunguls, Aya, Maretti advance to FB-8 without a qualifier, while players Piterius and LeBron have a bonus of a byeslot for 1 round (if, of course, they wish to participate)

The randomizer arranged the templates as follows
1-2sm4d3
2-Spider
3-skirmish (played according to OFB rules, i.e., with a town ban and no color change, but by mutual agreement you can play according to seasonal rules, i.e., allrandom)
4-6lm10a
5-JC
6-8mm6a
7-anarchy
8-diamond
9-Mini nostalgia

Thus, in the 1st round Red starts the ban from templates - 2sm4d3, Spider, skirmish
In the 2nd round, the ban proceeds from templates Spider, skirmish, 6lm10a
In all rounds, Red starts the template ban

I repeat for everyone - if you have a problem with your opponent (cannot find a common time, being ignored, etc.), write to me on ICQ - we will sort it out
Draw

In reply to The_

Vatya

6/14/2014 12:55 AM UTC

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The_

I've been meaning to ask, who came up with the idea that blue chooses the template and the castle?
Is it even worth mentioning that the only red template in the tournament is Jebus Cross (unless you count the utterly deranged SMK that hardly anyone in their right mind would play), and blue's advantage in this regard is enormous.
P.S. I've wanted to write this for a long time, but somehow never got around to it.

Sometime back in the day, when only SMK and occasionally Jebus Cross were played, someone decided that red was overpowered. But in reality, blue has been overpowered for a long time, especially on Mininost. You have restarts, mana replenishment, and so on. Maybe the roads go for red, and even that's not certain.

Ася 390383586

Осень-Зима 2013-14.

In reply to The_

Pit for LM

6/14/2014 6:24 AM UTC

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The_

...you know, I've been wanting to ask, who came up with the idea that blue chooses the template and the Castle?

Strange question. It's obvious that the rules were written by the tournament organizers.

The_

Needless to say, the only red template in the tournament is Jebus Cross (if you don't count the twisted SMK, which few people in their right mind would play), and blue's advantage in this regard is very significant.

Still, Timur, you should express your thoughts more carefully. For 2013:

2sm4d(3)
AYMAN 2sm4d(3) 25 wins - 2 losses - 1 draws, 89.2857%
Roger-ua 2sm4d(3) 49 wins - 6 losses - 0 draws, 89.0909%
Maretti 2sm4d(3) 27 wins - 5 losses - 1 draws, 81.8182%
Tovariщ 2sm4d(3) 52 wins - 15 losses - 0 draws, 77.6119%
twaryna 2sm4d(3) 14 wins - 5 losses - 0 draws, 73.6842%

In your opinion, are these players not in their right mind?
There was a vote on templates in the OFB: 34 players out of 80 participants voted for the SMK. More than a third of the participants - not in their right mind?
In the first round, 13 games were played on the SMK - over 30%.
Such words can easily offend players, and this is called "indirect insult of users."

In reply to The_

Pit for LM

6/14/2014 6:55 AM UTC

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The_

...the advantage of blue in this regard is very significant.

What specific facts is this statement based on?
I just calculated the statistics for this tournament:
as of today, red has won 77 games, and blue has won 66.

Подарок от Gomunguls на ДР :)

Осень-Зима 2013-14.

In reply to Pit for LM

Kilgor

6/14/2014 6:02 PM UTC

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The opponent doubled, but I had a rich corner respawn, so I decided not to waste a rest. The respawn is huge and rich in gold, but among the current spawns there's only 1 wolf. I moved to the adjacent area and hit a block; no way past to the computer. On 116 I went into the center, another block: 50-99 hydras for Pandora's box. So I ran between two zones—luckily they are huge—making back money for bears in the Castle. Money was found, but ore let me down; only managed to build in the citadel.
On 121 there was an epic, I went for the hive. Guard: hive + one pile of crystals = 48 mages!!! They smashed me good, loot was minimal. In the end, 7 gr. birds, 1 bear, and 4 ducks remained.
On 123 with all this gear I break 70 hydras with a gr. stack; it was very close. I spot the opponent nearby, head into the underground to my own computer and take it exactly on 131.
Then I fight toward the Dragon Utopia: 19 birds + 12 ducks + 3 bears take a size-one Dragon Utopia at the cost of a bear; they gave a sentry's shield.
I run to the center, wipe out the opponent's scrubs, and on 137 I spot another Dragon Utopia; with my last move I land on it—it turned out to be a size-three. The same 19 birds, 12 ducks, and 2 gr. bears without one-unit fillers take it. -3 ducks, -4 birds. They gave a red orb and the book of fire. Put bears in the second Castle.
On 141 the opponent attacks; we fought, I have 1 bear, 3 ducks, and 4 birds left, he has 20 mages. Chains gather armies and upgrade them—tons of meat, tons of money.
On 142 I pay off with Greg, buy myself out, unite the army, give it to Greg, and run at the opponent. Seeing such a ton of everything, the opponent surrenders.

Thanks for the game!

ICQ 245338291
Ник в лоби - Kilgory

Kilgor

Faction Цитадель / Stronghold

Start Hero Крег Хак / Crag Hack

Main Hero Крег Хак / Crag Hack

Победа / Def

Diabler

Faction Башня / Tower

Start Hero Аин / Aine

Main Hero Янова / Jenova

Map Template: 8mm6a
Game Length: 143 days
Game Date: 6/14/2014
Reported: 6/14/2014 6:02 PM

Kilgor 1850 → 1860 +10 ↑

Diabler 1721 → 1711 -10 ↓

Rated Sep 28, 2022

Accepted by opponent on 6/15/2014 8:40 AM

In reply to Pit for LM

HellLighT

6/14/2014 6:28 PM UTC

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Actually, I agree with Timur. It's very silly to give players the right to choose a map template and then force them to place their starting town on that template. This gives a significant advantage. However, the advantage of the red color is debatable; statistics are useless in this case, as most early-round matches have a wide range of skill levels among the opponents.

In reply to HellLighT

BlooDy)DriVeR

6/14/2014 7:44 PM UTC

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HellLighT

I actually agree with Timur; it's very silly to give the option to choose a template and then force players to place their city according to the chosen template. This is a significant advantage, but the advantage of the red color is debatable. Statistics are useless in this case, as there is a large skill gap between opponents in most of the early rounds.

I agree; it's much more enjoyable to play as blue: you get to choose the template, the castle, and the layout is easier to manage. However, everyone is on equal footing – today it's red, tomorrow it's blue.

In reply to BlooDy)DriVeR

Pit for LM

6/15/2014 7:29 AM UTC

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HellLighT

...very silly...

I'm asking again, directly: please discuss intellectual matters in private messages. At least respect each other on the forum.

HellLighT

...to give the right to choose a template,

Hmm, I don't play either Offb or League Championship, but, in my opinion, the way to choose a template in League Championship is much more rigid. In Offb, there's a choice from only 3 templates - players cross out one at a time. Closer to the end, knowing our strong players well, their preferences, and the statistics that are open to everyone, it's very likely to "guess" which template they will cross out. Just think a little before the game, browse the forum if you care.

HellLighT

...and then, based on the chosen template, choose a city for yourself, this is a solid advantage...

In most tournaments, this is exactly what happens - we choose cities, already knowing the template. But both know it, both choose cities based on the template... If blue chose cities for both, and red stood aside and picked his nose, that would be unfair. Usually, in such strong tournaments, players should be able to choose an acceptable pair of cities on any template. On the contrary (knowing the cities, choosing a template) is somewhat unusual, therefore more difficult.

HellLighT

...but the advantage of the red color is very debatable, statistics are powerless in this case, since in most matches of the first rounds, there is a large spread in skill among the opponents.

Statistics are no less powerless than speculative reasoning about red and blue templates and other theoretical arguments. I tried for many years to identify a correlation. Only a direct dependence of the % of wins on the skill and experience of the opponents was found. With equal skill, the random number generator decides (and it can be merciless to any color) and random mistakes. When we played multiplayer, we had to put half the team in blue, half in red. The team players mostly asked to play red if possible; an extra day is important for a strong player...
On the other hand, if playing red is so unpleasant, then maybe the second player choosing can choose their color? I didn't find this in the rules...

BlooDy)DriVeR

...However, everyone is in equal conditions - today red, tomorrow blue.

Golden words, the rules are the same for everyone.

Подарок от Gomunguls на ДР :)

Осень-Зима 2013-14.

In reply to Kilgor

Diabler

6/15/2014 8:40 AM UTC

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Kilgor

The opp doubled, but I had a rich corner respawn, so I decided not to waste the rest. The respawn is huge and rich in gold, but of the current things, there's only 1 wolves. I moved to the adjacent area and hit a block; no way past the computer. On 116 I went into the center, again a block of 50-99 water elementals for Pandora's box. So I ran between two zones—luckily they are huge—making back money for bears in the Castle. Money was found, but ore let me down; only built up in the citadel.
On 121 there was an epic, I went for the hive. Guard: hive + one pile of crystals = 48 mages!!! They smashed me to pieces, loot was minimal. In the end, 7 gr. birds, 1 bear, and 4 ducks remained.
123 with all this gear I break 70 water elementals with a gr. stack; it was all very close. I spot the opp nearby, go into the underground to my own computer and take it exactly on 131.
Then I fight toward the Dragon Utopia: 19 birds + 12 ducks + 3 bears take the Dragon Utopia one-stack at the cost of a bear; they gave a sentinel's shield.
I run to the center, knock out the opp's nobodies, and on 137 I spot another Dragon Utopia; with my last move I land on it, turned out to be a three-stack. The same 19 birds, 12 ducks, and 2 gr. bears without meat take it. -3 ducks, -4 birds. They gave a red orb and the book of fire. Put bears in the second Castle.
On 141 the opp attacks; we fought, I have 1 bear, 3 ducks, and 4 birds left, he has 20 mages. Chains gather armies and grade them, tons of meat, tons of money.
On 142 I pay off with Greg, buy myself out, unite the army, give it to Greg, and run at the opp. Seeing such a ton of everything, the opp surrenders.

Thanks for the game!

thanks for the game

In reply to Pit for LM

The_

6/15/2014 9:43 AM UTC

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Pit for LM

Strange question. It's obvious that the rules were written by the tournament organizers.

Strange answer. It's obvious that the purpose of the question was the cause-and-effect relationship of this decision.

Pit for LM

Still, Timur, you should express your thoughts more carefully. For 2013:

Do you think these players are not of sound mind?
In the OFB there was a vote on templates: 34 out of 80 participants voted for SM-ka. More than a third of the participants - not of sound mind?
In the first round, 13 games were played on SM-ka - more than 30%.
Such words can easily offend players and this is called "indirect insult of users".

If I have "indirectly" insulted anyone, of course I apologize. But I will promote my thoughts regarding SM-ka by all possible means and this is, IMHO, correct; some people don't like Jebus, some are sick of Diamond, etc. - I don't like SM-ka and I consider it my personal right to campaign against playing it.
As for the wonderful players and people you mentioned - did you talk to them about why they played SM-ka? There is another side besides statistics. I think AYMAN won't be too offended if I quote him almost exactly regarding SM-ka: SM-ka is the most imbalanced and random template, but I still like it. So the question should be asked: some people like SM-ka for that reason, but I don't have to love the template for it. Not to mention that even in the "новичок" tournament, people ask to remove SM-ka from the decisive games? Well, this is all lyricism and is not relevant to the matter at all (that's why I put the note about SM-ka in parentheses in the previous post, I don't know why it personally affected you so much).

Regarding color, look, I won twice as red, lost twice as blue - so everything is even and why am I even writing about this here? Should the logic be like this? Statistics don't always reflect the real state of affairs.

And the question remains the same, not even in the sense of "what kind of artist", "what kind of rules", "the organizer is sick", etc. But so that in the future there won't be such rules that limit "fairness".

241-568-808

In reply to The_

Pit for LM

6/15/2014 10:16 AM UTC

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The_

Strange answer. It's obvious that the purpose of the question was to understand the cause-and-effect relationship of this decision.

I thought you were capable of understanding this relationship yourself, being an organizer of Tournaments, so I found the question strange.

The_

I think AYMAN won't mind if I quote him almost verbatim regarding the Castle map: the Castle map is the most unbalanced and random map, but I still like it.

But does that mean that Ayman is not of sound mind?

The_

What's more, even in the "Novichok" tournament, people are asking to remove the Castle map from the decisive matches.

Apparently, you know the situation in Novichok better than I do. According to my information, the first game of the super final (where there is a pattern of maps) was played on the Castle map. Why didn't they remove it themselves?

The_

I don't know why this personally affects you so much.

Personally, it doesn't affect me at all; I also had a period when I couldn't bring myself to play on the Castle map, although I didn't notice any super imbalances on it; you just need experience playing on it, as with any other map.

The_

So that in the future there are no more rules that restrict "fairness."

There is no "fairness" in life; it is a subjective concept. I already wrote that the rules for choosing maps in the Champions League seem less fair to me than in the official league. So, you have to come to terms with the subjective opinion about "fairness" of each individual organizer. There is an excellent opportunity to avoid unfairness - don't play in the tournament.

Подарок от Gomunguls на ДР :)

Осень-Зима 2013-14.

In reply to Pit for LM

Dirty_Player

6/15/2014 10:25 AM UTC

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It’s a funny paradox. People have been complaining about it for years, but in every poll, it still ends up being one of the most popular templates.

In reply to Dirty_Player

Dark

6/15/2014 10:29 AM UTC

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cmku players play out of desperation because they don't actually know how to play anything else (except maybe one or two other strategies):cool:

лето 2012.

In reply to Dark

Juristis

6/15/2014 10:30 AM UTC

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darkello

They play CM because they have no other choice, because they don't actually know how to play anything else (except maybe one or two other templates):cool:

So maybe the problem isn't with the template, but with the players?)

heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.

In reply to Juristis

Dark

6/15/2014 10:44 AM UTC

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Juristis

Maybe the problem isn't with the template, but with the players?

It's definitely the players, but that doesn't change the fact that CMKA is a complete garbage template :D

лето 2012.

In reply to Dark

Pit for LM

6/15/2014 10:51 AM UTC

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I want to emphasize the core message of my current statements once again. As a forum moderator, I am forced to intervene in all your squabbles. My personal interest in this is zero, but it is my duty. I am not defending any particular template; I am defending the right of any player to play with the template they like, without being subjected to insults from others. If Timur, you start getting harassed because of your games on Jebus, I will defend you. I am not defending this specific черк system; I am defending the right of organizers to write the rules as they like, with the confidence that they will not be called stupid. I am not a fan of WT, but I consider the WT vs. SoD debates inappropriate, as they remind me of meaningless and brutal medieval wars over faith. Everyone has the right to relax in a way that makes them feel good. Play as you like, with what you like, with whom you like... Choose the Tournaments that you like... We are not here under duress, and the main goal is to have fun. Why spoil life for each other?

Подарок от Gomunguls на ДР :)

Осень-Зима 2013-14.