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Those who complain are usually the ones who don't want to do anything. But those who don't sit around doing nothing feel quite comfortable in both Russia and Belarus (I'm not talking about extreme wealth and driving around in a $500,000 car). Those who left and settled there at least know a foreign language... I'm not a genius myself, but I simply have nothing to talk about with most of the people I went to school, college, and university with – people are becoming degenerate, and all their efforts and aspirations boil down to complaining that everyone around them is bad and mean... I believe that if a person decides to move to Europe permanently, they could have found a job and succeeded in their homeland. But again, when you have a mind, you always look for the path of least resistance.
I absolutely agree. If you have a good head on your shoulders and a desire to work, you can find a job or create something for yourself. But the point is that people want to do it in the most comfortable conditions. And build their own business without fearing that when it starts to generate good profits, some guys will come and want half of it. And the worst thing is that you can't do anything about it. And there's also such a wonderful thing as corruption. I have acquaintances who study or studied at the most prestigious university in the country, KNU named after Shevchenko, in particular at the law faculty. A third of the course are just brainless rich kids. Of the remaining two-thirds, there are enough smart guys, but they also got there only thanks to bribes or connections. And their brains don't work for honest activities, but for how to get a better job and make more money later. And they seem like normal people, but they have already become links in the system, not realizing that things can be different. Only a few got there on their own merits. And after university, you still have to pay a bribe to get a job, and not a small one. And this system extends to the very top.
Added 4 minutes ago darkello
:smile29: In my opinion, of the two of us, you have the problem, since you want to stage a revolution in your country, and even through bloodshed, there is no other way!!! And I see such clowns as you every day at my work, Stakhanovites with a star on their forehead, you don't care that it's impossible, you don't care about anything, just to create some nonsense that leads to who knows where. I'll ask again, do you think that by removing Yanukovych, and in such a harsh way, you will get rid of corruption and everything else?!
I see that the problems are much deeper, and we also can't read very well. Please point your finger at where I wrote that I want to stage a bloody revolution in the country. P.S. If I manage to get out during the May holidays, we'll discuss in Minsk who the clown is and who has a star on their forehead.
I won't comment on what's happening in Kyiv, as without having information about the events and not knowing all the intricacies of the country's internal political life, it's impossible to assert anything with even a reasonable degree of certainty.
I will only comment on the many opinions expressed here in the spirit of: "We are brotherly nations! We need to unite urgently!" I don't quite understand why it's not possible to simply build one's foreign policy based on friendly relations with neighboring countries, while remaining a sovereign state with its own culture and identity. And believe me, this is not an empty phrase, as many would like to think, and not a foolish, jingoistic patriotism. Moreover, there is already an organization like the CIS, which is almost completely useless. Membership in this community has not brought any tangible benefits to any of its participants, and CIS summits are just a waste of time with endless talk about "strengthening political and economic ties." So, why these forced attempts at unification? Besides, there will inevitably be an attempt by one of the participants to dominate.
As far as I remember, the CIS was a product of Yeltsin and his team's wild imagination. Creating something on the ruins of the Soviet Union at that time was unrealistic; many countries left it almost immediately, and the project failed.
I’ll ask the question again: do you think that by removing Yanukovych, and doing so in such a harsh way, you will get rid of corruption and everything else?!
It’s pointless to ask. That part of Ukrainians who are proud that they are supposedly "independent," and in general, proud that they are Ukrainians, there is no point in asking them such questions.
Look how our "brotherly" Russians care about us! What would we do without you, our benefactors? Especially telling is the article by Cobra. It's brimming with brotherly care, respect, and concern.
But you should read the article carefully; who wrote it? Some Petr Akopov. Who is this gray cardinal, the master of Russian minds and hearts? Why, nobody, a perfect example of a political zero. In Russia, only two people have the right to officially speak on foreign policy: the country's president and the head of the Foreign Ministry. And Sergei Lavrov repeats in every interview, like a mantra: "We will not interfere in the internal affairs of other countries, and we advise other countries not to do so either."
It's amazing how much our "brotherly" Russians care about us. What would we do without you, our benefactors? Kobra's article is particularly revealing. It's overflowing with brotherly care, respect, and concern. P.S. Darkello, you have problems with formulating your thoughts. I suggest you read some books.
The article describes 3 possible scenarios. If we disregard the words that might be unpleasant to some about the reunification of our brotherly people (although who, besides nationalists and Bandera supporters, could find that unpleasant?!), and consider only the bare facts, then in my opinion, everything described there is quite realistic.
I have acquaintances who study or studied at the most prestigious university in the country, KNU named after Shevchenko, particularly in the law faculty. A third of the students are just brainless spoiled brats. Of the remaining two-thirds, there are enough smart guys, but they also got there only thanks to bribes or connections. And their brains are not used for honest work, but for how to get a better job and make more money later. And they seem like normal people, but they have simply become links in the system, not realizing that things can be different. Only a few got there on their own merits. And after university, to get a job, you still have to pay a bribe, no less. And this system extends to the very top.
Well, this is roughly the case everywhere where there is no strong external pressure on society - with the weakening of the objective criterion for the quality of work, subjective criteria become important - connections, personal sympathies, etc.
For example, in Europe and the United States, it is quite difficult to rise to the top purely on talent, perhaps only in some narrow areas where there is little money or high competition with foreigners.
For example, in the banking sector, everything has long been divided among financial clans; it is possible to organize your own large bank or get to a high position in existing ones only if you come from some family of financiers. All sorts of Rothschilds, Rockefellers, Morgans, and the like have occupied many good places and do not let outsiders in.
Even the hyped self-made guys like Gates, Bloomberg, or Zuckerberg are not really self-made; they were pushed to the top by relatives or powerful people for some personal purposes.
The optimal conditions for self-realization of people without money and connections are extreme pressures on society - chaos, war, revolution, or some external challenge, such as the space race. And also sports. Well, and the development of unoccupied niches, but there are almost none left now. That is, a situation where every few percent of efficiency is so important that it outweighs a person's personal qualities. In a normal course of life, they prefer to promote people who may be less intelligent but more loyal.
Therefore, I basically understand the motivation to create this chaos. The problem is that this chaos is created not by the people who will then be able to realize themselves in it, but by guys like Ikhtiandr, the fuel of the revolution.
Added 7 minutes ago Roger DAltavilla
And Sergei Lavrov repeats in every interview like a mantra: "We will not interfere in the internal affairs of another state, and we do not advise other countries to do so."
You can say anything. In my opinion, it is clear with the naked eye that the scenario of Yanukovych's actions was not only agreed upon with the Kremlin but was most likely even written there.
It is very similar to Putin's political style - to turn the enemy's strength against him, not to disperse the Maidan, but to wait until it exhausts itself or discredits itself in the eyes of the public. The same technique was used to calm the protests in 2011. I highly doubt that Yanukovych has the same restraint and ability to walk on a razor's edge when it seems that it is about to happen, just a little more, and the power will fall, but it does not fall, but only depletes the resources of the protest, highlights the organizational structure and supply channels of the opposition.
If Yanukovych wins, repressions and a dictatorship will begin, and the next wave will be so strong that it will not end with Kyiv. Kharkiv, Donetsk, and Dnepropetrovsk will burn, and then Crimea. Does everyone remember Yugoslavia? Do you want Russian speakers to start cutting Ukrainian speakers?
Nothing like that will happen. I'm telling you, Putin's style is evident even in the details, so it will most likely continue.
They might put a few leaders of the protest in jail (or they might not). They might put a few rioters in jail, but not for politics, but specifically for rioting, and most likely not at the Maidan itself, but somewhere near it. The "Berkut" might kill a few particularly distinguished people under the cover of darkness.
If we disregard the words that some people find unpleasant about the reunification of a brotherly nation (although who, besides nationalists and Bandera supporters, could find this unpleasant?!
But why do you think that way in general? I'm curious, where do these ideas about a mythical "unification of nations" come from? Which nations? The nations of the former USSR? Why should they be united? What's the benefit?
ICQ 239312697 Spring 2014
Wicc
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From the same broadcast, it's amusing:
23:00 Maidan. It's a complete mess. Tyahnybok and Klitschko came out. They are trying to persuade the people to make peace.
23:10 Tyahnybok is trying to convince the crowd. "Stop f***ing around," they shout at him! "An eye for an eye... blood for blood." Tyahnybok: "Comrades, you can't climb onto tanks with your bare a**" - "We don't give a f***."
Why do you even think that way? I'm curious, where do these ideas about a mythical "unification of peoples" come from? Which peoples? The peoples of the former USSR? Why unite them? What's the benefit?
You're asking what the benefit is? Are you sure you even play Heroes? :) Population, income, territory, and many other things in general.
Ah yes, because even here, on this hero forum, any attempt by Russians to talk about friendship with Ukraine is perceived as aggression (and only the courageous resistance of Roger-ua and Lider1 prevents Ukraine from being subjugated through the Forum).
Hahahaha! What a great "friendship" it is. And to become "close brothers," all strategic assets must be handed over to Moscow's control. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deed of gift to Putin; it can be done through shell companies. And it should start with the pipeline. It's no coincidence that the price of gas for the nearest neighbor is higher than in all of Europe, considering the transit. This is how friendship is explained. This is how brothers express their love for us. And the more this friendship is imposed, the higher the price of gas will be, which affects the entire economy. A cool story, in one word. Write more.
Personally, I would like (since we're talking about me) for the country to be a truly independent, sovereign state. Not just on paper, and not one of the federations as some perceive it. Is that bad? But given the situation where greedy people are in charge, who only think about their own pockets, and the increasing external economic pressure year after year, it's only a matter of time before someone grabs it. The process may be prolonged.
And yes, by the way, what is happening now is very beneficial for our "foreign friends" and "brothers." I mean other countries. It is well known that the worse things are, the better. A weakened body is more susceptible to disease. And something can be pushed through on this wave. (that's how it is with us, everything is so bad - we want to join them! or we have it just as bad, but we want to join these guys. Control us!!! we can't do it ourselves. and they will eat it up, those "smart people")
There was no need to dissolve the USSR. Otherwise, they "realized" it and remembered. ***
Romario's posts yesterday were simply hilarious, saying that in the USA (aaaaaa, these are colonial oranges, pricked oranges!!!!!) and other developed countries, there is no social support and how bad everything is. But there, even the talentless people living on benefits live better than you do on your salary.
Or is this a very subtle, subtle trolling disguised as thick trolling? darkello
So, you have a symmetrical situation - well, overthrow Yanukovych now, and who will be at the head of your country? I don't know who? someone even more hungry for power, for money, for your resources?! pfffff Think about it... if you were to carry out actions similar to a civil war, then you should at least know what it is for and have an "alternative person or group of people" in mind to put in power! Don't be a mindless herd!!!
There is nothing more naive than arguing that "these people have already stolen enough, they won't steal as much anymore, new people will come and start stealing even more." THEY WILL! They definitely will!
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Dark
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Juristis
"And I don't quite understand what Europe has to do with it? Right now, there is a struggle against the regime, against the mafia, against corruption and lawlessness, and not for joining the EU or NATO" (C) JURIST
I see that the problems are much deeper, and we also don't know how to read very well. Please, point with your finger where I wrote that I want to stage a bloody revolution in the country. P.S. If I manage to get out for the May holidays, we will discuss in Minsk who is the clown and who has a star on their forehead.
Europe is relevant here because all this turmoil started because of joining the European Union (or rather, not joining)! Against what regime are you fighting? Do you have someone in the country who offers something better, a better regime? A government without corruption? Or is the best thing when people kill each other (revolution, civil war!)?! Or do you consider the Berkut officers to be inhuman too? (they are just Ukrainians performing their duty!)?! In general, blah blah blah...
Added 2 minutes ago Defiant
Why do you think so at all? I'm curious, where do these ideas about the mythical "unification of peoples" come from? Which peoples? The peoples of the former USSR? Why unite them? What's the benefit?
"facepalm" Do you know that we are Slavic nations, and this means that Ukraine is closer to Russia than to anyone else (not to the USA, not to France!). I have always perceived Ukrainians as Russians, just living in their own country. Who to unite? No one is going to unite anyone!
Hahaha! What a great "friendship" we have. And to become "blood brothers," all strategic assets must be placed under Moscow's control. It doesn't necessarily have to be a deed of gift to Putin; it can be done through shell companies. And let's start with the pipeline. It's no coincidence that the price of gas for the nearest neighbor is higher than in all of Europe, including transit costs. That's how friendship is explained. That's how brothers express their love for us. And the more this friendship is imposed, the higher the price of gas will be, which affects the entire economy. A cool story, in one word. Write more.
I'm writing. Well, yes, Ukraine buys gas from Russia, and Russia buys Ukrainian goods. The more such connections there are: "I owe" - "I am owed" in economic, cultural, and sports terms, with different countries, the more reliable and independent the state's position becomes. A country with many such connections cannot be subjugated. This is painful for the entire global community.
Alternatively, one could lower the iron curtain, switch to a natural economy, and create a neo-feudalism. That would also be independence.
Воздам сторицей!
KobRa_RR
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http://ukr1.pravda.com.ua/articles/2014/01/24/7011103/ This article is not Russian, but the conclusions are the same.
But the main point is that the Maidan was supported by only a significant majority of the population (50%) and was not accepted by 42%, with this being a regional division between West + Center and East + South.
The same applies to the demands of the Maidan: public opinion is divided almost in half, and – regionally. So, even if we assume that somehow it will be possible to "oust" the authorities from Kyiv, although it is clear that this will only be possible at the cost of much bloodshed, what will that give?
For half of Ukraine, it remains quite legitimate. And – either the mobilization of security forces from the East and the conquest of the capital, and then Western Ukraine becomes like Vendée.
Or the Schism of Ukraine.
I think that both scenarios have been calculated by the "strategists" of this diabolical plan.
The result is blood, chaos. It is clear what will happen to the economy, which is already barely breathing, with finances, with investments. Ruin.
So, it is obvious that both sides of the conflict should clearly understand that there will be no winners. That it is not a happy thing to be a dictator in a blood-soaked country where a large part of the people hate you, to be unable to travel west of Chop, and to be completely dependent on the mercy of the king of a neighboring state.
The other side should also remember the pages of history. Thus, heroism ennobles the soul, and "standing" to the end is indeed noble. But let us remember how gloriously the Cossacks of Khmelnytsky fought, what victories they achieved, and how did it end? With the Pereyaslav Rada and an oath to the Tsar.
So, there is no other way than to sit down at the negotiating table. The absolute majority of citizens (72%) agree with this – and those who support the Maidan and those who do not support it think so to the same extent. And real negotiations should begin urgently, as the situation is deteriorating every hour.
Well, yes, Ukraine buys gas from Russia, and Russia buys Ukrainian goods. The more such connections – "I owe" – "I am owed" – in economic, cultural, and sporting terms, with different countries, the more reliable and independent the state's position becomes. A country with many such connections cannot be subjugated. This is painful for the entire global community.
It seems Russia only trades with Ukraine and no one else, which is why the gas prices for us are the highest. All that's left is to permanently assign the fleet and declare "we cannot be defeated."
You're tiring me out; I'm handing you over to Agent Cobra.
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