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Offline twaryna
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Juristis
I don't quite understand what Europe has to do with it. Right now, the fight is against the regime, against the mafia, against corruption and lawlessness, not for joining the EU or NATO. And I'm amazed that some people don't understand this, but think that a bunch of paid Nazis and Westerners came out to riot in the city. You have to be incredibly short-sighted to think that...

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http://heroes3.tv/twaryna
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Offline Roger-ua
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Berkut is worse than the fascists!
http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/1152697.html
Yuri Verbitsky was killed not by thugs, but by FSB officers who had tortured him for a long time, asking, "How much were you paid for standing in Maidan?" In Ukraine, there are no longer people who don't know why they stood in Maidan.
The regime committed crimes against humanity.
http://oleg-leusenko.livejournal.com/1152123.html
Весна 2013.
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Offline Lider1
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Wicc
Yeah, because it breeds all sorts of Ichthyanders with a bunch of ideological garbage in their heads.

But it's not about the Ichthyander. It's about the fact that history can be rewritten in any way. Over time, you can write anything. And then hammer it into people's heads. This is a very powerful thing that influences people's worldview. And it's far from certain that it will contain the truth.

People rarely live to 100 years, but they can still refute things because they were real witnesses to certain events. Although who will listen to them?
Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того
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Offline Vatya
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Juristis
Right now, the fight is against the regime, against the mafia, against corruption and lawlessness, and not for joining the EU or NATO. And I am amazed that some people don't understand this, but think that a group of paid Nazis and Westerners came out to riot in the city. You have to be incredibly short-sighted to think that...
Against, against, against... For the hundredth time, I ask, it's clear what you're against, but what are you for? So, all the things you're against have come true, what's next? Personally, I see that there will only be even more things to be against.
Satir
Well, you posted nonsense and disappeared faster than I could respond. It's not surprising that you crave to be commanded and controlled. It's difficult for you to think for yourself.
I didn't disappear; I just went to take care of my own business. Unlike the local trolls, I have something to do besides arguing about politics. I only come here when I'm really bored.
And if you had bothered to read even a couple of my posts, you would understand that NO ONE and NEVER will control me...
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Offline Dark
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I didn't bother reading all this nonsense.
Right now, the question is who Ukraine will stay with and what is actually beneficial for it, the EU or Russia; as they say, you can't "have your cake and eat it too" at the same time. What the Berkut officers are doing is not against the people—it's their job!!! You're just seeing it officially now. They were told "attack," so they attack. Besides, if they weren't protecting the government, what would happen?! Something good?! A fragmented government, loss of control over the country?! It can't get any worse!
Fact: I have an acquaintance living right near the Maidan activities... and he says his house has already been attacked 3 times, so now he's gone to the village! Is it a good thing when a fellow Ukrainian (and a clean one at that) is kicked out of his own home?! (Note that the Berkut didn't do this).
Russians don't give a damn, in fact; whether you communicate more with the European Union or with us, we are indifferent to you... But for you, it's a debatable question: joining the EU could be critical for your economy. Firstly, Russia will most likely leave as a market for your goods (which wouldn't even come close to passing quality standards in Europe), and secondly, due to various mandatory conditions for joining the EU. And to be honest, as I said above, all this rabble taking to the streets doesn't even understand what they are fighting for; not one of them has formulated the thought of "WHY are they IN THE STREET?!". I generally don't understand why many Ukrainians on the forum are aggressive toward Russians; we have absolutely nothing to do with this, and personally, Ukraine currently evokes only emotions of pity and compassion in me ;(

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Jurustis
And I don't quite understand what Europe has to do with this at all? Right now, this is a struggle against the regime, against the mafia, against corruption and lawlessness, not for admission to the EU or NATO. And it strikes me that some people don't understand this, and think that a bunch of paid Nazis and Westerners came out to loot the city. Just how blurred must one's vision be...

Buddy, what "blurred vision"?! How old are you?! The reason the people took to the streets was the refusal to join the European Union. Everything started after that. And what specifically is the people achieving—overthrowing stability, even with corruption, to put in new people who don't take bribes? What nonsense?! You didn't start living worse than you did 10 years ago under a different regime, although maybe not better?! So why have you decided to do this now?!
And so that Ukrainians can understand better, I'll give an example from Russia:
Right now we have President V.V. Putin—do I agree with his regime or not—of course not, like any person, it's disgusting for me to hear that we have democracy in our country while the ruling party "United Russia" holds more than 50% of the seats in parliament, any legislative issue is decided by the majority, and furthermore, the president himself positions himself on the side of this party BUTTTTTTTTTTT
We had a presidential election not so long ago, and so, coming to perform my civic duty and choose a worthy candidate, I personally voted for PUTIN. Why, you ask?! It's simple: I know what happens under this man—even if not everything suits me, there is some kind of stability in the economy, in politics, and elsewhere. Choosing another president like ZHIRINOVSKY, MIRONOV, or an Oligarch would lead to nothing good; yes, the power would change, but as a reasonable person, I understand that it wouldn't get better.
So you have a symmetrical situation—well, go ahead and overthrow Yanukovych now, and who will take the lead of your country? I don't know who? Someone even hungrier for power, for money, for your resources?! pfffff
Think about it... if you are carrying out actions similar to a civil war, then you should at least know what for—have an "Alternative person or circle of people" in mind to put in power!
Don't be a led herd!!!

And there's no need to bring up victims in the amount of 1-1000 people. A change of regime threatens even worse consequences—it always has been and always will be. I didn't say it will be worse, but the probability of that is greater than the probability that it will be better!

лето 2012.
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Offline =Stinger=
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oh my god.
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Offline bubuch
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I don't understand why Europe is just standing by.
Why haven't peacekeepers been deployed yet? It's a disgrace.
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Offline Niemand
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Dark, pour me some too.
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Offline Rabe
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Juristis
Pete wrote about his life in Paris, and I didn't notice any complaints about the standard of living or genocide there. There's a streamer on SC2TV with the nickname Koshka or something like that, an ethnic Ukrainian who lives in the USA, and she has repeatedly debunked the myths about unemployment and the low standard of living for emigrants. I have acquaintances in Canada who run a business and are happy with everything; they don't plan to return to Ukraine. And in general, I haven't heard much about people who moved to Europe and now complain and whine that they would have been better off staying (or going to Russia, Belarus, or China). But there are plenty of people who would like to leave.

Those who complain are usually the ones who don't want to do anything. And those who don't sit around doing nothing feel comfortable both in Russia and in Belarus (I'm not talking about becoming mega-rich and driving around in a car worth 500 thousand). Those who left and settled there, at the very least, know a foreign language. I'm not a genius myself, but I already have nothing to talk about with most of the people I went to school, college, and university with – people are deteriorating, and all their efforts and aspirations boil down to just complaining that everyone around them is bad and mean...
I believe that if a person decides to move to Europe permanently, they could have found a job in their homeland. But again, when you have a mind, you always look for the path of least resistance.
"Одержать сто побед в ста битвах — это не вершина воинского искусства. Повергнуть врага без сражения — вот вершина.
"Сущность войны — обман. Искусный должен изображать неумелость. При готовности атаковать демонстрируй подчинение. Когда ты близок — кажись далёким, но когда ты очень далеко — притворись, будто ты рядом."
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Offline Roger DAltavilla
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In the confrontation between Yanukovych and the Maidan, those who stand in the middle will win.

Yanukovych cannot disperse the Maidan; the more he resorts to force, the fiercer the resistance will be. To put it bluntly, yesterday he was hated for being complacent, and tomorrow he will be hated for the killings. Therefore, the Ukrainian president is trapped and is prolonging the negotiations.
The Maidan is also trapped; it cannot simply disband, or they will all be rounded up one by one. Most likely, Maidans will appear in new cities, growing in number and paralyzing the life of the country.
There is also a third force: the leaders of the security forces, who do not understand why the president is delaying the declaration of a state of emergency and not allowing the use of force. These leaders need to explain to their soldiers every night that they need to be patient, which is very difficult. Given that the Maidans will grow throughout the country, the military forces will be operating at the limit of their capabilities (this is not Starcraft, and you cannot simply "order" more Berkut officers). At some point, the patience of the security forces will run out, and they will use their authority to bring armored vehicles to the Maidan, crush the opposition, and, on the way back, overthrow Yanukovych, establishing a state of emergency in the country. If, at this point, foreigners try to interfere, wanting to take control, they will be dealt with harshly and decisively. A temporary government will be appointed from the military, and early elections will be held, which the military will also win.

Has anyone described the delights of a totalitarian regime? You will have the opportunity to experience them to the fullest.

Oh yes, since even here, on this Heroes forum, any attempt by Russians to talk about friendship with Ukraine is perceived as aggression (and only the courageous resistance of Roger-ua and Lider1 prevents Ukraine from being subjugated through the Forum), this will soon become the official version. A military government needs an enemy.
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Offline Dark
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Roger DAltavilla
In the confrontation between Yanukovych and Maidan, those who stand in the middle will win.

Yanukovych cannot disperse Maidan; the more he resorts to force, the fiercer the resistance will be. To put it bluntly, yesterday they hated him for being complacent, and tomorrow they will hate him for the killings. Therefore, the Ukrainian president is trapped and is dragging out the negotiations.
Maidan is also trapped; it cannot simply disband, or they will all be rounded up one by one. Most likely, Maidans will appear in new cities, becoming more and more numerous, paralyzing the life of the country.
There is also a third force: the leaders of the security forces, who do not understand why the president is delaying the declaration of a state of emergency and not allowing the use of force. These leaders need to explain to their soldiers every night that they need to be patient, which is very difficult. Given that Maidans will grow throughout the country, the military will be operating at the limit of their capabilities (this is not Starcraft, and you can't just "order" more Berkut officers). At some point, the patience of the security forces will run out, and they will use their authority to bring armored vehicles to Maidan, crush the opposition, and on the way back, they will overthrow Yanukovych and establish a state of emergency in the country. If, at this point, foreigners try to interfere, wanting to take control, they will be dealt with harshly and decisively. They will appoint a temporary government from the military and hold early elections, which the military will also win.

Has anyone described the delights of a totalitarian regime? You will have the opportunity to taste them to the fullest.

Oh yes, since even here, on this Heroes forum, any attempt by Russians to talk about friendship with Ukraine is perceived as aggression (and only the courageous resistance of Roger-ua and Lider1 prevents Ukraine from being enslaved through the Forum), this will soon become the official version. A military government needs an enemy.
There are still some smart people on the forum after all :)
You will only experience the full bitterness of the regime when the above happens

лето 2012.
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Offline Juristis
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How our "brotherly" Russians take care of us! What would we do without you, our benefactors? Kobra's article is particularly revealing. It's brimming with brotherly care, respect, and concern.
P.S. Darkello, you have problems with formulating your thoughts. I suggest you read some books.
heroes3.tv/juristis
ICQ - 488-784-621, skype - juristis18

Весна 2014.
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Offline Dark
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:smile29:
Juristis
.
P.S. Darkello, you have problems with formulating your thoughts. I suggest you read some books.
In my opinion, you are the one with the problems, since you want to stage a revolution in your country and even through bloodshed, there is no other way to do it!!!
And I see such clowns as you every day at my work, Stakhanovites with a star on their forehead, you don't care what can't be done, you don't care about anything, just to create some nonsense that is unclear what it leads to.
I will ask the question again, do you think that by removing Yanukovych, and in such a harsh way, you will get rid of corruption and everything else?!

лето 2012.
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