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#4780
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Ikhti, instead of browsing those obscure and unnecessary websites and reading all sorts of nonsense, let's focus on something useful and do a couple of things for the community. First, let's get the constraint track for 121, and second, let's complete the Heroes glossary.
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#4781
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Vatya
Let's get down to business and do a couple of things for the community.

First, let's take on the 121 constraint track, and second, let's complete the Heroes glossary.

Go ahead and do it!
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#4782
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Vatya
Personally, I am against such changes. I had enough of 1990 and 2004, after which the country regressed to the level of Zanzibar. And what you are talking about is not freedom, but anarchy, although it may be freedom for you...

You just haven't encountered it yet, but I personally experienced all the "fun" of such revolutions when my company was audited 5 times in a year. The tax authorities openly said, "Sorry, buddy, but understand, the budget is empty, we are being squeezed, we can't collect taxes, so we'll make up for it with fines."

Or another example. My wife lost my driver's license, and I need to retake the test. I go to the traffic police, and there is complete chaos, and the bribe is now 10 times higher because everyone is nervous. And without a license, I'm already losing a lot of money every day. Study? That's nonsense. It's almost impossible to pass the test on your own, everyone wants a bribe. I had to pay.

And a third example. Before the revolution, fines were issued for speeding, ranging from 1 to 10 minimum wages, starting with 1, then 2, then 3-5. After the revolution, they immediately issue the maximum fine on the first offense. And there are many such examples.

So, the question is, why do I need all these revolutions?
Don't get so worked up. These are all normal phenomena for a transitional period. After any change, it is not the case that paradise arrives the next day; there is always a period of chaos. The problem is that the transitional period has dragged on for us, but that doesn't mean that all the changes are for the worse... Perhaps someone is simply interested in this ;)

P.S. One of my acquaintances also passed the driving test on his own, without paying a bribe... It took him either 8 or 9 attempts... For this, he had to throw away the rulebook, find the correct answers on the internet, and go straight to the commission... :D After that, they called him crazy and wondered for a long time why he needed to do that....
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#4783
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Snooppy
Don't get so worked up. These are all normal occurrences for a transitional period. After any changes, it's not like paradise arrives the next day; there's always a period of chaos. The problem is that our transitional period has dragged on, but that doesn't mean that all the changes are for the worse... Perhaps someone is simply interested in that ;)
I'm not particularly upset. I'm just wondering why we need to have revolutions so often? 5 years of chaos and then 3 years to get back to the previous level – that's at least a step backward... especially since there are elections in a year, so show your will there...
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#4784
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Snooppy
Yes, we are probably adults and we fully understand that. But in this case, psychology interferes with this stereotype. In my opinion, a member of the "Hive" will never come to an agreement with a "Tower", because they know each other's nature, just like a thief will not come to an agreement with another thief for the same reason. They can talk on the phone every day, but that doesn't mean they will agree on something. Everyone has their own plans and ambitions. They can quite easily use each other to achieve their goals, but it is unlikely that they will be able to come to an agreement and create a grand scheme. For this, they need to form a team, and for this, there must be trust between them. But what kind of trust can there be in this pair? It is enough for one of them to trust the other, and the game will be over.

And if they do come to an agreement, how could such a "megamind" allow the Maidan to happen? Or is this also part of a grand plan? Then what awaits us next? A forceful solution? You yourself deny such a possibility. What other options are there?
Negotiating and coming to an agreement are two very different things. I meant that they communicate behind the scenes, and not that they see each other once or twice a year. It is precisely because our Slavic people have very little experience and skill in keeping agreements, especially in politics, and the presidents are no exception, that this is happening. Yes, no one can come to an agreement with us; he has gone too far and is already slightly "overplaying," but who said that Putin is not the same? Maybe even worse.

Added 28 minutes ago
Vatya
I'm not particularly upset, I'm just wondering why revolutions happen so often? 5 years of chaos and then 3 years to return to the previous level - this is at least a step back... especially since the elections are in a year, so show your will there...
This is not frequent at all; history has examples of revolutions lasting 100 years. And here, it's all only 5 or 10 or even 20. This is a quite logical period for the formation of an immature opinion and the implementation of the public will. And the consequences will always be there, and who said that it would be better without the Maidan? In 2010, as a result of a sharp, long-term political struggle, the Party of Regions finally took the upper hand, but the people did not come out in order not to harm and not make things even worse than they were. What do we have as a result - we see it.
Vatya
Again, a simple example, under Yulia, everyone was outraged at customs. There was no way to pay bribes, they were constantly watching, and as a result, even the expiration dates of products with a short shelf life were reduced "legally." And trucks stood for weeks...
This is just a banal redistribution of customs (which also happened this year, by the way, and even under Robin Hood), influence, and flows, again, it does not happen by itself, but is influenced by the world economy; it is also impossible to smuggle forever. The question is where and in what volume does all this go.
Vatya
In the next 20-30 years, no one will change the issue of bribery. As they paid bribes under Yanukovych, so we will pay bribes under any government, the question is only in the prices. But bribery through laws can be brought to the point of absurdity, simply by increasing the terms for making decisions. That is, in theory, everything is beautiful, everything is democratic, but the decision-making period is increased from 3 months to a year.
With this paradigm, we are definitely doomed. And not for 20-30 years, but forever. I am amazed by people with such judgments, as if we are talking about some random guys passing by the windows or flashing on the screen. Start with yourself, finally, start changing yourself, your children, influence those around you, and don't blame someone else. Our society is you and me, and only you and I are to blame for the fact that it is this way, only you and I have done absolutely nothing to change anything, and the longer we whine about fate, the less likely it is that anything will change.
Everyone pays bribes, and I pay, oh dear, the government is to blame. And who is this government? These are the same people as you, who yesterday were ordinary citizens, tearing their throats out at the government, but if they come to power, they fall silent and pocket the money. And how can you refuse if they pay? We ourselves are suckers, and then we get indignant about how badly everything is arranged. This is in our blood; it is difficult to fight, but if we don't even start, then everything is lost.
Хаос - это порядок, которым сложнее управлять.

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#4785
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Piterius

And even if something happens, Russia won't have time to prepare its rockets; within 48 hours, all strategic objects across the country will be gone. The war was lost to the United States by default 30 years ago, and I'm not even mentioning what would happen if China joins in.
I completely disagree with this, as I know firsthand (I served in the Russian Strategic Missile Forces for 10 years). The Americans won't have time to launch their rockets; within minutes, a sufficient payload will be launched to completely destroy them. They know this, which is why they can't do anything. As for Ukraine, there will still be missiles there, if not ours, then American ones, because that is their main goal – to surround Russia. Now it's Romania and the Czech Republic, but they want to be even closer. My opinion: regarding any scenario of Putin's, it's better to look at how things are developing in countries that followed the American scenario (Libya, Iraq, Yugoslavia – former allies of Russia). There is chaos, destruction, and poverty in these countries. It all started with "peaceful" demonstrations and ended with bombings. Don't people understand the obvious things? America and the EU don't care how Ukraine will live, what will happen to the Ukrainian people, or their culture. Their main goal is to separate two allies from each other, preferably as far apart as possible. This scenario didn't work with Belarus, but it did with Georgia. It is important for Russia that its strategic partner is a strong ally. The Americans won't go to Ukraine because they know that Russia won't allow it. The EU is waiting for visa-free travel, and Romania and others have been waiting for over a year and will never get it.
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#4786
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Vatya
In the next 20-30 years, no one will change the issue of bribery. As they took bribes under Yanukovych, so will they take them under any government; the only question is the price.

It's good if it's only 20-30 years...
The Chinese quickly resolved this issue with public executions. But that's not something we can expect. Which idiot from the "system" would deprive himself of his means of livelihood? And our mentality is not right; we are also striving for Europe, we want to be civilized, because Europe would not approve of this. :)

Added 10 minutes ago
Piterius


With this paradigm, we are definitely doomed. And not for 20-30 years, but forever. I am amazed by people with such judgments, as if we are talking about some random guys passing by the windows or flashing on the screen. But start with yourself, start changing yourself, your children, influence those around you, and don't blame someone else. Our society is you and me, and only you and I are to blame for the fact that things are the way they are, only you and I have done absolutely nothing to change anything, and the longer we whine about fate, the less likely it is that anything will change.
Everyone pays bribes, and I pay them too, oh dear, the government is to blame. But who is this government? These are people just like you, who yesterday were ordinary citizens, tearing their throats out about the government, but if they come to power, they fall silent and line their pockets. And how can they refuse if they are paid? We ourselves are fools, and then we get indignant about how badly everything is arranged. It's in our blood; it will take a long time to fight it, but if we don't even start, then everything is lost.
Petya, I admire and envy your optimism.
Unfortunately, I don't share it, because history has a tendency to repeat itself. In Ukrainian history, there has not been much positive, and historically, the people have been in the position of the plebs. Foreign countries have always dictated how to live here. But there have repeatedly been figures like Mazepa, and as the saying goes, "Every nation has the government it deserves."
Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.
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#4787
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Ihtiandr
The 15 billion that Putin gave to Yanukovych was stolen from our pensioners.
I already wrote above that money for the state is completely different from money for an ordinary person.

What are 15 billion euros? They are Russian accounts in European banks. The fact that they move from one bank to another will not make a difference to pensioners.

Another option is government bonds of European states. That is, Russia sells bonds to, say, Belgium and buys bonds from Ukraine. Again, this does not affect domestic finances.

A third option is that 15 billion is issued in rubles at the exchange rate, for which the necessary amount is printed (it is foolish to issue it from the budget). This increases the circulation area of the ruble and stimulates exports.

And most importantly, this money is not a gift, but a loan. Do you know the difference between a gift and a loan?
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#4788
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Wicc
Do you know the difference between a gift and a loan?

And do you know the difference between Putin and an honest person?))

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#4789
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Ihtiandr
Do you know the difference between Putin and an honest person?))
Well, for a politician, Putin is quite honest. After all, 95%++ of public politicians are professional blabbermouths who don't stand by their words and easily change their arguments depending on the circumstances. Putin is more consistent in his statements, and his words and actions are less likely to contradict each other than the average politician.

It's unrealistic for a politician to always tell the truth, both for reasons of diplomatic etiquette and because the truth is often complex or unpleasant, and most people are simple and happy, preferring simple, sweet lies (like about the EU, human rights, democracy, etc.).
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#4790
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Wicc
most people are rather simple-minded and blissful, preferring simple, sweet lies (like those about the EU, human rights, democracy, and so on).

The fact that people are simple-minded doesn't mean they prefer lies. Nobody likes lies. If you stop brainwashing people with television and tell them the truth, they will simply go to the Kremlin and impale Putin.
Wicc
Well, for a politician, Putin is quite honest.

Apparently, you are one of those "simple-minded and blissful" slaves.
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#4791
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Wicc
The main thing is that this money is not a gift, but a loan. Do you know the difference between a gift and a loan?
Your selective perception is sometimes astonishing! In this case, it is more like a gift. More precisely, it's a payment for postponing Ukraine's European integration, to buy time, so to speak, in order to implement their insidious plan in the form of a Customs Union (or whatever Putin's real goals are)... It can only become a loan if, for example, there is a change of power, or when Putin is convinced that Yanukovych has betrayed him... In any case, no one is going to return this money.
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#4793
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Wicc
Formally, this is a loan that is offered to be repaid. But in this situation, the parties can agree - to write off the loan in exchange for some concessions.
Okay, this is a deal. It's clear what Yanukovych got, but what is Putin's interest in it? (and please, don't start with the "saving the younger brother" again, it's not even funny anymore).
Formally, yes - it's a loan. But in reality, Yanukovych didn't care about all your formalities. He got what he wanted, and he was least concerned about who, how, and with what would pay for it. So, with this "help," Putin rather worsened relations with Ukraine than brought closer the bright moment of uniting brotherly peoples. What's the logic?

Added 8 minutes later
Oh yes, he bought time to put his insidious plan into action, what was I thinking...
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#4794
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Snooppy
Okay, it's a deal. What Yanukovych gained is clear, but what's in it for Putin? (and please, no more talk about saving a younger brother, it's not even funny anymore).
Formally, yes, it's a loan. But in reality, Yanukovych didn't care about all your formalities. He got what he wanted, and he's the least concerned about who, how, and when will pay for it. So, with this "help," Putin has likely worsened relations with Ukraine rather than brought closer the bright moment of uniting brotherly nations. What's the logic?

Added 8 minutes later
Oh, yes, he bought time to put his insidious plan into action, what was I thinking...
Putin's interest is obvious, and he doesn't even hide it – he's restoring Russia's influence within the borders of the USSR. I don't see any trickery here – only the local elite can suffer from this process; the population will only benefit.