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Posts from Terra dei Demoni

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In reply to Roger DAltavilla
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Roger DAltavilla
Unlike some, I not only read the first post but also downloaded the template and generated several maps before expressing my opinion.

You can redo a lot of things, but it won't be beneficial because you don't understand that the absence of hives on the template is a plus for this template in this tournament.
In reply to scorp
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scorp
the only template where you don’t immediately want to give Inferno to the opponent
Inferno here is certainly stronger than on other templates, but in my opinion it doesn’t quite reach imba status. For example, a Castle-Inferno pair, I think, is playable under any colors.

Added 17 minutes later
Ominous1
forts should be removed from secondary towns, except Inferno, so they don’t get built out
That’s exactly the point — to build out the secondary towns. Need more demons ...
also, a double-ГО for one of the players in the form of a portal isn’t great either; it should be like on Jebus — the exit to the treasure zone is always by land
Here, unlike Jebus, there are too many zones, and the generator can’t create a flat structure.
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Scorpiona
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In reply to Scorpiona
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Looks like it, the optimal strategy for the draft here will be to lead players to the same pairs of towns. Therefore, the rules of the draft are changing, and we will use the version that is used in fixes:

Town selection - the player who is higher in the permanent HeroesWorld rating (HERE) chooses their color. Then the draft of towns proceeds from two lists - you can strike out towns for yourself as well as for your opponent. That is, it is not the entire town (for both) that is struck out, but the possibility for a specific player to start with that town. The Red player starts the draft. The strike-out sequence is 1-1-1-2-2-2-2-2-2-1. For example:

self Castle
self Rampart
you Conflux
self Tower and Necropolis
you Castle and Stronghold
you Rampart and Fortress
self Tower and Inferno
you Necropolis, self Inferno
you Fortress, self Conflux
you Dungeon
Result: Red Stronghold vs Blue Dungeon

Illustration of the above draft (the number is the draft turn number, the color of the number is the author of the draft):
(1) Castle Castle (3)
(4) Rampart Rampart (1)
(5) Tower Tower (2)
(6) Inferno Inferno (7)
(6) Necropolis Necropolis (3)
(8) Dungeon Dungeon
Stronghold Stronghold (4)
(5) Fortress Fortress (7)
(8) Conflux Conflux (2)

If the draft results in the same pair of towns, the starting hero is random.
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This is truly a devilish scheme, and you can’t do without demonologists here to figure out, for example, what the numbers in parentheses mean. And how did the Dungeon-Citadel pair even come about? And what is the meaning of “you-yourself” in this context?
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In reply to The_
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The_
This is truly a demonic scheme, and you can't do without demonologists here to figure out, for example, what the numbers in parentheses mean. And how did the Dungeon-Citadel pair even come about? And what is the meaning of "you-yourself" in this context?
This is a sequence of scribbles, a visual illustration of the text dialogue in the paragraph above.

Compare the text of the rules with the scribbles and the numbers, and you will see everything yourself.
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Based on my experience playing TC3, having 18 castles in a starting setup doesn't change the core gameplay. In any case, it results in a limited selection of possible strategies. As an alternative, you could simply make all secondary castles identical – weak castles, like Tower, Barbarian, and something else. This would balance the starting setup: there would be an option to play with a strong castle or a weak castle with a double bonus.
CHINA
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In reply to Dirty_Player
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Dirty_Player
As my experience with Heroes 3 shows, a draft of 18 castles doesn't change the essence. In any case, you end up with a limited selection of options.
It will still be limited, simply due to the large difference in the strength of the SoD castles.

On regular templates, the number of possible pairs is also not large, but here the decision-making space is even smaller - red will always have to eliminate Necropolis and Dungeon, and blue - Rampart and Swamp. That is, all the variability will boil down to choosing the 3rd castle, which also cannot be done in any way.

But with a two-sided draft, the number of options increases - the specified castles only need to be eliminated by one player, so pairs like red Dungeon vs. blue Rampart or red Castle vs. blue Swamp are possible.
As an option, simply make the secondaries identical - weak castles, like Tower, Barbarian, and something else. This will balance the draft: there will be an option to play with a strong castle or a weak castle with a double.
It is difficult to eliminate demons with Barbarian and especially with Tower.
In reply to Wicc
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Wicc
But with two-sided bans, the number of options increases — the mentioned towns only need to be banned by one player, so pairs like red Dungeon vs blue Rampart or red Castle vs blue Swamp are possible.

With this ban system, the number of options is reduced to exactly two — red Tower vs blue Barb and Conflux vs Conflux. If the red or blue player attempts to deviate from this direction at any stage, they risk ending up in a losing situation. I will explain why.

First, each player must ban at least 5 towns from their opponent — Necropolis and 4 double-builds. This is unavoidable; if red does not want to get into trouble, he must start banning them — because blue has the last word, and he can use it to help red postpone a good brick build. I will demonstrate with the example of Necropolis — if red does not ban it from his opponent, blue will do so at the very end — and will play Necropolis against any other town, which for red is equivalent to defeat on this template — we have already established that. By the same logic, red cannot leave blue double-builds if he does not want to play against a double with a normal setup, which is also not healthy. Blue, of course, in response must act synchronously — he cannot leave such advantages in red's arsenal after being deprived of them himself, can he?

So, both players have already used 5 bans. Now, in turn, blue bans red's Dungeon and Castle — since he cannot leave these two strong towns to him — he loses the benefit of having the secondary skills of these factions, such as Angel upgrades and double-mana with Portal at the very least. And now red is forced to respond — removing Rampart and Swamp from his opponent, also two formidable towns.

And now each player has one Conflux left, as well as Tower for red and Barb for blue. And what will red ban in this situation? He can proceed in two ways — ban the opponent's Conflux for the reasons already mentioned above, and then it will be Tower vs Barb, or remove his own Tower, and then it will be Conflux vs Conflux. This is essentially the conclusion I reached after thinking it over. I could of course be mistaken, so if anyone sees an error in my reasoning — I will be happy to listen.
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The main mistake is that you build your strategy by eliminating good castles for your opponent. But you can also eliminate bad castles for yourself. Secondly, not every double-faction pairing is detrimental. For example, in a pairing of red Castle vs. blue Tower, I would bet on the Castle.
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The template is interesting, the tournament is interesting, but there are too many tournaments right now, so maybe next time.
Только в тишине ответит вселенная, только в наших сердцах мы обретем смелость следовать её зову. ;)
In reply to Frol off
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Frol off
With such a banning system, the number of options is reduced to exactly two - red Tower vs. blue Barbarian and Conflux vs. Conflux. If the red or blue player tries to deviate from this direction at any stage, they risk ending up in a losing situation. I'll explain why.

Firstly, each player must ban at least 5 towns for their opponent - Necropolis and 4 double-builds. This is unavoidable; if red does not want to get into trouble, he must start banning them - because blue has the last word, and he can use it to help red postpone a good brick setup. I'll demonstrate using Necropolis as an example - if red does not ban it for his opponent, blue will do so at the very end - and will play Necropolis against any other town, which for red is equivalent to defeat on this template - we've already established that. By the same logic, red cannot leave double-builds for blue if he does not want to play against a double with a normal setup, which is also not great. Blue, of course, in response must act synchronously - he cannot leave such advantages in red's lineup after losing them himself, can he?

So, both players have already used 5 bans. Now, in turn, blue bans Dungeon and Castle for red - because he absolutely cannot let red keep these two strong towns - he loses the benefit of having the secondary skills of these factions, such as Angel upgrade and at least double mana with Portal. And now red is forced to react - removing Rampart and Fortress from his opponent, also two formidable towns.

And now each player has one Conflux left, as well as Tower for red and Barbarian for blue. So what will red ban in this situation? He can proceed in two ways - ban the opponent's Conflux based on the considerations mentioned above, and then it will be Tower vs. Barbarian, or ban his own Tower, and then it will be Conflux vs. Conflux. That's essentially the conclusion I came to after thinking about it. Of course, I could be wrong, so if anyone sees a mistake in my reasoning - I'd be happy to listen.
1. At the very least, in a double-build, Tower on such a template doesn't have much attractive about it. Gargoyles and Golems aren't demons at all, Gremlins are bad demons, and it's at least a bit of a shame for them, they're shooters after all. So a double Tower can at least be somewhat of a burden.
2. Double Barbarian is certainly stronger, no questions there, although their demons aren't great either, to put it mildly.
3. Regarding 6-7 banned towns constantly, you're certainly right. On the other hand, Mirror works well for determining who is stronger.
4. Well, it all depends on the players' desire to play their favorite town. Also, I wouldn't say everyone will leave Conflux. It has plenty of advantages too.
Well, in general, you're right.
Well, I'll still take part in the gathering.
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Когда рестартов не осталось, обязательно ждите Гурниссона без балисты:D

Комплимент который сделал мой день:
Катя ЭПИК барышня) вы бы видели как пялились на её сиськи молодёж) я та с девушкой был) но всё равно пялился ) потому что хорошие) (с) Browser

Слабая раздача, которую заиграл исключительно из-за колпака на 111. (с) Сатир

In reply to Wicc
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Wicc
The main mistake is that you build your strategy by crossing out good towns for your opponent. But you could also cross out bad towns for yourself.

I build my strategy that way because I decided that crossing out towns for myself is a bad plan specifically on this template. But let's say I'm playing red and decide to cross out bad towns for myself. What can I cross out? Do I really have that many bad towns? Necro, four double-builds, Dungeon, Castle — that's already seven excellent towns. Conflux is a decent town, I think. So, I crossed out Tower. I even crossed out Conflux, let's say. But what, I ask, do I cross out next with this strategy? Plus, my reasoning that I can't leave Necro for my opponent, for example, still applies even in this case.
Wicc
Second point — not every double is bad for your health. Say, in a matchup of red Castle vs blue Tower, I'd bet on the former.

I agree, but in my opinion, this is the only example of such a double-build. Okay, red didn't cross out Tower and has one cross-out in reserve. I thought about this; the question is, what can this give him in terms of a cross-out, considering the points I mentioned?

Next — what other double-builds are painless? Inferno, with doubled growth of efreets and pits (which allow demoning on two fronts at an accelerated pace), with Marius — a decent hero who strengthens the demon stack, which is a strike force by the template's concept? Stronghold, with Crag Hack, universal in any situation, double growth of bears, which are easy to build compared to, say, blue's secondary angels and other useful units? With a doubled chance for a convenient magic source in the rocks, in the absence of Dungeon? Or who else?
In reply to Frol off
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Frol off
I'm building my strategy this way because I decided that crossing out castles for myself is a bad plan specifically on this template. But let's say I'm playing as red and I've decided to cross out bad castles for myself. What can I cross out? Do I really have that many bad castles? Necropolis, four double-builds, Dungeon, Castle — that's already seven excellent castles. Conflux is a decent castle, I think. So, I crossed out Tower. I even crossed out Conflux, let's say. But then, I ask you, what am I supposed to cross out next with this strategy? Plus, my reasoning that I cannot leave Necropolis for my opponent, for example, still holds true even in this case.
What's stopping you from crossing out Tower for YOURSELF, if you really don't want to play it? Why would you leave it for YOURSELF? Are you sure you understood the crossing-out rules correctly?
Когда рестартов не осталось, обязательно ждите Гурниссона без балисты:D

Комплимент который сделал мой день:
Катя ЭПИК барышня) вы бы видели как пялились на её сиськи молодёж) я та с девушкой был) но всё равно пялился ) потому что хорошие) (с) Browser

Слабая раздача, которую заиграл исключительно из-за колпака на 111. (с) Сатир

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