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Posts from In your opinion, which faction is the strongest in Heroes 5? Let's discuss the advantages and disadvantages of each faction.

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In your opinion, which race is stronger in Heroes of Might and Magic V?
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13 years ago
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Personally, in the 5th installment, I consider only two factions to be overpowered: Elves and Dwarves. They have the two most devastating abilities: True Luck and Absolute Protection (if you don't believe me, try taking castles with the Grail and these abilities...). Dwarves are already tough, and with the Anvil and the ability, they have free (!) chance to hit = 99% immortality during defense + a hero with magic (if you level them up, a Warlock or Wizard will be as powerful as possible). The toughest dragon is the Magma Dragon + Lava Shield. This is a nightmare (it's only somewhat mitigated by the inability to resurrect, but at least we have that). Elves have Wild Luck + Initiative (Wing and Anwen are amazing...). Ents are competitors for holding Lava Dragons + free 1 resurrection with Dryads (I don't understand the developers' logic; do the Dryads mate with the Ents, so they both resurrect???...). There's no need to talk about Archers and Druids – with True Luck + a Ranger and a hero like Wing, Anwen, or Ossir, it's game over. In the third game, I only love two factions: Elves and Elementals.
12 years ago
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Haven – I hate it. Pathetic, pampered little people. Nothing outstanding. In the late game, on a large map, their hordes of paladins won't help them, neither against Academy (the strongest with 5 heroes), nor against Necropolis (theoretically the strongest, depending on the map conditions). Inferno – I like it on large maps. They have 2 strong specializations: a very scary ballista with 3 shots, each of which is fiery death, and the second – attack + defense + luck, with spells for quick teleportation and speed. The enemy dies before they even get a turn. Very stylish. Necropolis – I used to like it, but not so much now. I like bone warriors, the strongest level 1 unit after rangers, vampires, and heralds; the defense-summoning specialization is the most effective. I mentioned earlier about their strong dependence on map conditions, namely the number of resurrectable neutrals on the map, the presence of external neutral dwellings, and the number of castles on the map (from which they can later convert undead). In principle, these are the most important factors for a strong, overpowered Necropolis. But let's imagine a map (a duel on a large map, for example, against an Academy player) where there are few resurrectable neutrals, or none at all, few or no neutral dwellings, and only two castles, yours and your opponent's. The map is huge, there are enough resources for development, and rushing is impossible in any form, so the heroes are fully upgraded (up to Super Units). And here's what we get in the endgame – practically equal army growth for both heroes, BUT, due to the "weak" (Necropolis relies on the number of undead raised, and necromancy in the 5th part is equal to the others, not a bonus, unless the conditions for resurrectable neutrals are met, but we are talking about their absence) troops, Necropolis simply has no chance against the Academy's army packed with mini-artifacts. That's it. I think everyone understands now... Sylvan – I hate it. Pathetic, pampered elves. The central skill is overpowered, but it's almost impossible to get. Dungeon – top tier. 2 units with invisibility, several heroes – kamikazes can fight against a countless enemy army with 3 rangers and kill a lot of people before retreating. Practically any battle takes place without losses or with minimal losses because the mages of Dungeon can cast 4-5 chain lightning or hellfire spells before their troops become visible and take any damage. And after that, there may be no enemy left at all. Specializations? Charms and Chaos, that's the only way. Academy – a faction with overpowered mini-artifacts, in fact, 1 unit of lions can defeat an entire enemy army if the mage has light magic. Yes, lions are better than titans at high artifact levels, paradoxically, but it's true. Mages, well, they're okay, but only at the beginning and against the AI. They die instantly, for a human player, they are target #1. In the late game, on huge maps, they are unmatched, mini-artifacts... I described the essence of the confrontation between mages and Necropolis above. Resurrectable neutrals eventually run out, there may not be any dwellings on the map at all, but the resources needed for mini-artifacts in the mines do not run out... The only thing I don't like about mages is their "eastern" style, which doesn't really fit with the tall, beautiful, fair-haired COLLOSUS and TITANS, this is Greece, my friends, and has nothing to do with the turbans on the heads of heroes and archmages with golems. Gargoyles too, they are generally from Western European culture... In general, I don't like playing as them only because of this. Dwarves... Light + defense, combined with their faction runes, make dwarves one of the strongest. And their Super Units are great – overpowered. Orcs – a prototype of the Golden Horde, forget about it.
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12 years ago
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I hate Haven. Miserable, pampered humans. Nothing outstanding. In the late game on a large map, their crowds of paladins won't help them, neither against Academy (the strongest in Heroes 5), nor against Necropolis (theoretically the most dependent on map conditions).

Uh-huh, you'll get hit by 100500 shots from the Marksmen, you'll have a blast. Thanks to preparation, you can carry through all stages of the game.
I like Inferno on large maps. They have 2 strong specs — a very scary Ballista with 3 shots, each of which is fiery death, and 2 — Attack+Morale+Luck, with fast teleport and haste spells. The enemy dies before they even get a chance to move. Very stylish.

What "spec"? Many have the "Triple Ballista" perk. For demons, Attack and Spellpower stats simply grow preferentially — which is exactly what the ballista damage depends on. Teleport and haste spells are also available to everyone.
Necropolis — I used to love it, now not so much. I like Bone Warriors, the strongest level 1 unit after trackers, Vampires, Harbingers; the defense-summon spec is the most effective. Above, I mentioned their heavy dependence on map conditions, specifically the number of resurrectable neutrals (RN) on the map, the presence of external RN dwellings, and the number of castles on the map (from which they can later convert undead); basically, these are the most important factors for a strong, OP Necromancer. But let's imagine a map (a duel on a large map, for example, against an Academy player), where there are few RN neutrals or they aren't RN at all, few or no RN dwellings, and only, say, two castles: yours and the opponent's. The map is huge, there are enough resources for development, rushing is impossible in any form, so heroes are fully leveled (up to Grand Master). And here is what we get in the finale — almost equal army growth for both heroes, BUT due to "weak" troops (Necromancers rely on the number of raised undead, and necromancy in part 5 is equal to others, not a bonus, unless RN conditions are met, but we are talking about their absence), the Necromancer simply has no chance against the Academy troops decked out in minimax artifacts. That's it. I think everyone understands now...

Nobody plays on large maps in Multiplayer. Necromancers only lose in the long haul, and even then, only if they don't have extra cities.
I hate Sylvan. Miserable, pampered elves. The central skill is OP, but getting it is almost impossible.

Pointless. You don't necessarily need to reach Grand Master — enchanted arrow + rain + ballista is much more effective and faster. And don't even get me started on the Marksmen.
Dungeon is top-class. 2 units with invisibility, several kamikaze heroes can face a countless enemy army with 3 trackers and kill a ton of people before retreating. Almost every battle happens without losses or with almost no losses because Dungeon mages can fire 4-5 chain lightnings or infernoes before their troops become visible and take any damage. And after that, there might be no enemy left at all. Specs? Charms and chaos, only that way.

Good at the start, then nothing. Invisibility is actually spotted in no time. Against AI, of course, it's easy.
Academy is a faction with cheating minimax artifacts; effectively, 1 squad of lions can wipe out an entire enemy army if the mage has Light. Yes, lions are better than titans with high-level artifacts, paradoxical but a fact. Mages, well yes, not bad, but only at the beginning and against AI. They die instantly; for a human player, they are target #1, after all. In the late game on huge maps, they have no equal, minimax... Above I described the essence of the confrontation between mages and Necromancers. Resurrectable neutrals run out sooner or later, dwellings might not be on the map at all, but the resources needed for minimax in the mines never run out... The only thing I don't like about mages is their "Eastern" styling, which doesn't fit the tall, beautiful, fair-haired COLOSSI and TITANS at all; that's Greece, my friends, and has nothing to do with the turbans on the heads of heroes and archmages with golems. Same for the gargoyles, they are from Western European culture... In general, I only dislike playing them because of this.

Minimax is great, of course, but only for long games and leveled heroes. Mages carry due to high knowledge and spellpower. Units are fragile, Rakshasas die in one shot... Golems can survive longer with Gremlins, if the former are being healed.
Dwarves... Light+Defense combined with their factional runes make dwarves some of the strongest. And their Grand Master is very satisfying — OP.

Dwarves combine light and runes well, that's true. They hold up well in the city. But in conditions of an economic crisis, it's quite easy to "smoke them out" of the castle, where they don't stand long in the open field.
Orcs — a prototype of the Golden Horde, to hell with them.

Pointless. Styling has nothing to do with it. Orcs are fine at practically any moment of the game, rage allows them to take out huge squads of creatures and protects from damage; cries are also extremely effective, if we're talking about large maps, "Topley's Cry" wipes out all enemy squads in seven casts; units are also well-made, Cyclopes with rage are absolutely invincible, the only thing is the tanky centaur archers, but they can be countered with tactics. If you deck yourself out in dwarven artifacts with the Archer set, no one has a chance against a skilled Orc player.

Whatever
In reply to Heroist
12 years ago
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Heroist
Yeah, you'll get 100500 shots from the archers, you'll have fun. Thanks to the preparation, you can dominate at all stages of the game.

What archers? Archers will be taken down in the early game by the same mages, elves...


What other build? The "Triple Ballista" perk is available to many. Demons simply prioritize Attack and Magic stats - which is what the ballista's damage depends on. Teleport and speed spells are also available to everyone.

But does everyone have quick gate opening?


No one plays on large maps in Multiplayer. Necromancers only lose in a drawn-out game, and even then, if they don't have extra towns.

What are you talking about? :D Those you know don't play? In fact, most people play on large maps for a grand endgame, to fully upgrade and utilize all possibilities... This is where the balance ends, and mages dominate.

It's not worth it. You don't necessarily need to go for Castle of the Undead - Enchanted Arrow + Rain + Ballista is much more effective and faster. And I won't even mention the archers.
That's also an option, I don't argue.


It's good at the beginning, but then it's useless. Invisibility is revealed pretty quickly. Of course, it's easy against the AI.
The sneaky ones annoy them... Although there's often a ban on this tactic...


Miniatures are great, of course, but only for long games and upgraded heroes. Mages dominate thanks to their vast knowledge and magic. The units are weak, Rakshasas die in one shot... Golems and Gremlins can survive for a while if the former heal the latter.
With miniatures, even the Academy units start to dominate, Rakshasas don't die so quickly anymore, and if you add +13 to the Gremlins' health... +30 initiative...


Dwarves combine light and runes well, that's true. They also hold up well in the city. But in an economic crisis, they can be easily "smoked out" of the castle, where they won't last long in the open.
In the open, they can take on almost anyone, except for Stronghold and the Academy.


It's useless. The style doesn't matter here. Orcs are good at almost any stage of the game; Rage allows them to overwhelm huge squads and protects them from damage; shouts are also very effective, especially on large maps, where "Tophet's Cry" spoken seven times wipes out all enemy squads; the units are also well-made, Cyclops with Rage are absolutely invincible; the only problem is the bulky archer-centaurs, but you can counter them with tactics. If you equip them with dwarven artifacts from the Archer set, no one has a chance against a skilled Orc.

Orcs are the worst...
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12 years ago
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Okay, master of heroes.

Whatever
12 years ago
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Yeah, you'll get 100500 shots from the archers, you'll have fun. Thanks to the preparation, you can dominate in all stages of the game. What archers? Archers will be taken down in the early game by the same mages, elves... What other build? The "Triple Ballista" perk is available to many. Demons simply prioritize Attack and Magic stats, which are exactly what the ballista's damage depends on. Teleport and speed spells are also available to everyone. But does everyone have quick portal opening? No one plays on large maps in Multiplayer. Necromancers only lose in long games, and even then, if they don't have extra towns. What are you talking about? Don't the people you know play? In fact, most people play on large maps for a grand endgame, to fully upgrade and utilize all possibilities... This is where the balance ends, and mages dominate. It's not worth it. You don't necessarily need to go for the Castle of Heroes - Enchanted Arrow + Rain + Ballista is much more effective and faster. And I don't even mention the Archers. That's also an option, I don't argue. It's good at the beginning, but then it's useless. Invisibility is easily detected after a couple of turns. Of course, it's easy against the AI. The tricksters annoy them... Although this tactic is often banned in many places... Miniatures are great, of course, but only for long games and well-developed heroes. Mages dominate thanks to their vast knowledge and magic. Units are weak, Rakshasas die in one shot... Golems and Gremlins can survive for a while if the former heal the latter. With miniatures, even the Academy units start to dominate, Rakshasas don't die as quickly anymore, and if you add +13 to the Gremlins' health... +30 initiative...
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12 years ago
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What are you talking about? Don't the people you know play? In fact, most people play on large maps for a grand endgame, to fully upgrade and utilize all possibilities... This is where the balance ends, and mages dominate.
Maybe somewhere they do, but not here... Large maps are interesting in single-player, but in multiplayer, fighting against another player is much more interesting than clearing out neutrals, so the pace is the most important thing. Only those who benefit from it prolong the game, but in that case, the opponent, on the contrary, tries to attack as soon as possible while they still have a good chance. It's a calculated move.
In general, I don't agree that the Wizards are the strongest... They are definitely the most unpredictable because they depend heavily on resources and what appears in the Guild of Mages (which allows you to develop any school). Once, I played with a friend, I was Necromancer, and he was Wizards. In the final, I was surprised because he had Darkness... And he did well, although I still managed to win thanks to my army. But another time, it might be extremely unlucky; it varies from game to game.
 

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In reply to Ment
12 years ago
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Ment
Maybe they play that way somewhere else, but not here... Large maps are interesting in single-player, but in multiplayer, fighting against another player is much more interesting than clearing out neutral creatures, so the key is the pace. Only those who benefit from it try to prolong the game, but in that case, the opponent, on the contrary, tries to attack as soon as possible while they still have a good chance. It's pure calculation.
In general, I don't agree that the Academics are the strongest... They are definitely the most unpredictable because they depend heavily on resources and what comes up in the Guild of Mages (the ability to develop any school). Once, I played against a friend, I was Necromancer, and he was Academics. In the final, I was surprised because he had Darkness... And he did well, although I still managed to win thanks to my army. But sometimes it can be extremely unlucky; it varies from game to game.


Mages are the strongest in the late game, where resources are no longer needed for buildings, and you can invest everything in mini-arts. With the help of mini-arts, you can create an army to counter any race; you just need to test it. With knowledge +60, a mini-art gives +40% initiative... Any opponent won't be able to attack even once, not even Wingael. As for spells, a special ability + light/darkness, and you're good to go. And mini-arts give not only initiative... The Necromancer is more dependent on the map.
In reply to Alveug
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12 years ago
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What archers are you talking about? Archers will be taken out in the early game by the same Mages and Elves...

Elves – yes. Mages – when a Knight attacks a Mage who hasn't even had time to buy Titans and unlock Miniatures? What will he attack with? Among the normal archers, only Battle Mages, who are better replaced with Fire Archers in the early game.
Does everyone have the ability to quickly open portals?

I didn't notice that. You still need to work towards quickly opening portals. By the way, reinforcements aren't that great.
What are you talking about? You don't play against people you know? In fact, most people play on large maps for a grand endgame, to fully upgrade and utilize all possibilities... Here, the balance ends, and Mages dominate.

I already answered that.
That's also an option, I don't argue.

The tricksters annoy them... Although, this tactic is often banned...

With Miniatures, the Academy units are already strong, Rakshasas don't die as quickly anymore, and if you add +13 to the health of the Goblins... +30 initiative...

Miniatures, Miniatures. You'll be crushed in the third week by the opponent when you level up your hero to level 15 and they defeat you in one easy attack. Good luck.

Added 1 minute ago
Alveug
Mages are the strongest in the late game, where resources are no longer needed for buildings, and you can invest everything in Miniatures, and with the help of Miniatures, you can create an army against any race, you just need to test it, with knowledge +60, a Miniature gives +40% initiative... Any opponent won't be able to attack even once, even Wingael... Regarding spells – a special ability + light/darkness, and that's it. And Miniatures give not only initiative... Necromancer is more dependent on the map.

Someone broke their keyboard...

No one makes it to the late game. In single-player, it's okay, but against a real opponent... You'll only win if you're very lucky, or if you gain enough skill.

Whatever
12 years ago
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By the way, the Necromancer's special ability is one of the most useless – a -6 penalty to morale is simply laughable, especially considering that the maximum negative value you can achieve is -11 morale, while it's easy to get more than 12 positive morale, and a mage with minotaurs can completely crush them... And getting to that ability is one of the most difficult things to do. The lack of "Mind Control" only makes this already useless ability even worse...

Added 4 minutes later
No one makes it to the late game with them. In single-player, it's okay, but against a decent opponent... You'll only win if you're very lucky, or if you have a lot of skill.

If we assume that you can only attack after three or four months of the game, or even longer... In my opinion, I can only evaluate the strength of a race at its maximum level of development and when all its possibilities are used. Here, I repeat, mages crush everyone...

Added 5 minutes later
For example, an Orc with an army upgraded with minotaurs, each stack of archers gets +40% initiative, and the gremlins also get +16 to HP + mass acceleration spell, and that's it, they're unbeatable.
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12 years ago
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I don't even plan to protest, but any reasonably decent opponent won't let you level up to 60 knowledge. At best, to 30, and even that's a lot. Normally, 20 is enough... The Necromancer, by the way, is less dependent on the map, but also less dependent on randomness in general. His tactic of "making a huge number of troops" is effective to some extent, because there are no large maps with a small number of neutrals, and also without additional cities; at least, the random map generator doesn't produce such maps, these are already some kind of fantasies. The Necromancer is good on small maps, good on large maps, and not so dependent on resources; he is consistent in all respects. Only on large maps without additional cities is he just decent, but with additional cities, he becomes a very serious opponent that not every faction can defeat.
If we agree that you can attack after three or four months of the game, or even more... In my opinion, I can only assess the strength of a race at its maximum level of development and using all its possibilities; here, I repeat, mages beat everyone...
No, the strength of a race is assessed by the number of victories with it in games when there are no agreements (except perhaps for the rules of online games, which are made to create some additional balance, so they can be understood). People should play to win, not for ambition, then it will be clear which faction is strong in what. But these agreements... With the same success, you can agree to use only chaos magic and buy armies exclusively of the third level, no more, no less. This is so that mages definitely win, with alt-gray golems against chaos. And come up with something else... But there is little point in these agreements.
Of the normal archers, only Battle Mages, who should be replaced with Fire Mages in the early stages.
By the way, I wouldn't replace them. Fireball is a fireball, but archers need to be covered by someone, and archmages cannot be covered; they will shoot at their own (they won't throw fireballs all the time).
 

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12 years ago
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By the way, the Necromancer's special ability is one of the most useless ones – a -6 penalty to morale is just laughable, especially considering that the maximum negative morale you can achieve is -11, while it's easy to get over 12 positive morale, and a Mage with Minotaurs can easily crush them... And getting to that ability is one of the most difficult things, the lack of "Mind Control" only makes this already useless ability even worse...

If we agree that you can only attack after three or four months of the game, or even more... In my opinion, I can only evaluate the strength of a faction at its maximum level of development and using all its possibilities; here, I repeat, Mages crush everyone...

Oh yes, the Mage's special ability is much better than the Necromancer's ;)
Not -11, but -5, I think. And the number can be made as low as -100 (my record seems to be -23 or -17, I don't remember anymore, but not in version 3.1)...

Ment is right, if "agreeing" is not a game. You can also agree to have three Necromancer cities and one Mage city – crush the latter, and then say that "Mages are not good, Necromancers rule," right? ;)
I'm not going to argue, but a reasonably good opponent won't let you level up to 60 knowledge. At best, to 30, and even that's a lot. Normally, it's 20... The Necromancer, by the way, is less dependent on the map, but also less dependent on randomness in general. His tactic of "making a lot, a lot of troops" is effective to some extent, because there are no large maps with a small number of neutrals, and no additional cities, at least the random map generator doesn't create such maps, these are already some kind of fantasies. The Necromancer is good on small maps, good on large maps, and not so dependent on resources, constant in all respects. Only on large maps without additional cities is he just okay, and with additional cities, he becomes a very serious opponent that not every faction can defeat.

No, the strength of a faction is evaluated by the number of victories with it in games, when there are no agreements (except perhaps for the rules of online games, which are made to create some additional balance, so they can be understood). People should play to win, not for ambitions, then it will be clear which faction is strong in what. But these agreements... You could as well agree to use only Chaos magic and buy armies exclusively of the third level, no more, no less. This is so that Mages definitely win, with Alt-Grey golems against Chaos. Come up with something else... But there is little point in these agreements.

By the way, I wouldn't replace it. Fireball is a Fireball, but archers need to be protected, and archmages cannot be protected, they will shoot at their own (not all the time, of course, throwing fireballs).

Agree

Well, I don't know, I get Archmages in the first two or three weeks. I don't have any problems, unless I encounter an opponent by the end of the month – which happened quite often, before I had time to upgrade.

Whatever
12 years ago
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It's not difficult to raise 30+ knowledge by equipping artifacts that boost knowledge specifically for creating minions, and then removing them... Even with 30 knowledge, a minor artifact gives +30 initiative.

Added 4 minutes later
I'm saying that you can achieve a general effect of reducing defense by -11, and even that's with a horrified scream from Daedra. And if her troops have +12 defense? Then there's still +1 remaining. In my opinion, having a full spellbook is much better than uselessly trying to reduce the opponent's defense.

Added 1 minute later
And I know about the range from -5 to +5; the rest is just "in reserve"...
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12 years ago
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In my opinion, there are certain skills that mages and necromancers should avoid; it's unlikely you'll reach the point of having a full spellbook in multiplayer, and you'll have to sacrifice a lot of useful skills to get there.

Whatever
12 years ago
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A Necropolis army without a constant supply of biomass to raise undead is very weak. If you only consider the base unit production of the castle, for example, 3-4 units, it's clear that the Necropolis will lose to any army with 3-4 units from other factions.

Added 1 minute later
Well, for the Academy, only the "machines" are unnecessary, in my opinion.

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