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And also, during wars for secondary resources, Blue will always have an income, while Red will have nothing.
RiMpel2
Posts from Let's talk about our Red Rush strategy...
Closed
Ban or allow Red Rush:
54
voters
Multiple choice
Public votes
Closed
2013-09-20
This poll is closed.
allow on XL+U templates
50%
27 votes
Leave the ban on XL+U templates in place
50%
27 votes
allow on the Diamond template
25.9%
14 votes
leave the ban on the Diamond template
55.6%
30 votes
allow on the Mini-Nostalgia template
27.8%
15 votes
leave the restriction on the Mini-Nostalgia template
53.7%
29 votes
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Dirty_Player, you are right about the advantages of blue (I didn't even know about the blue rush), but this is true 1) except for those templates where the difference of 1 day of development plays a role (Heroes of Might and Magic), but 2) the advantage in restarts for blue also plays a role, but 3) for expert players who consistently win in one, two, three turns, 1 day is still a significant advantage, but 4) this very day has nothing to do with buying on week 1... that is, we have the same thing as with almost all advantages in RPGs - they turn out to be just features, maps that you can play with or not.
+ another advantage of blue is that on Monday, he can assess his situation during the opponent's turn and plan the entire first day of the game - this is a significant advantage on tight maps.
+ IMHO, the ban on red rush is more of a tribute to tradition, when the native growth always meant everything + a desire for calm in the game (hence also the rest on meeting, now IMHO used only perversely to its original purpose) and is not very relevant now.
What is bad is the proposal to ban red rush in some templates and allow it in others. "Better 1 bad commander than 2 good ones."
+ another advantage of blue is that on Monday, he can assess his situation during the opponent's turn and plan the entire first day of the game - this is a significant advantage on tight maps.
+ IMHO, the ban on red rush is more of a tribute to tradition, when the native growth always meant everything + a desire for calm in the game (hence also the rest on meeting, now IMHO used only perversely to its original purpose) and is not very relevant now.
What is bad is the proposal to ban red rush in some templates and allow it in others. "Better 1 bad commander than 2 good ones."
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You list so many advantages of blue, and that's right; to make a decision, you need to list everything first...
But here's an argument and a question for you to ponder: Why, when playing as the Barbarian, does the player who chooses the color more often pick red?
In my opinion, it's because they believe that playing as red is more advantageous. And if that's the case, there's no need to make red even stronger.
But here's an argument and a question for you to ponder: Why, when playing as the Barbarian, does the player who chooses the color more often pick red?
In my opinion, it's because they believe that playing as red is more advantageous. And if that's the case, there's no need to make red even stronger.
Wicc
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This is something new; if you played Funky, then it's your business... or were these Tournaments? Give an example of such a thing, but not Anarchy, of course.
We played without red rush:
1) Chaos League Tournaments, these were the strongest tournaments of that time (~2000-~2006)
2) All tournaments on Bay (2006-2012), with the exception of games on the CM map, including the RP series, this was the strongest tournament cycle at that time (2008-2010).
3) All CIS Championships (2010-2013), with the exception of games on the CM map, these are the strongest tournaments of the present day.
And many other minor things.
You don't understand that with control, red will gather his growth and attack you. And if you were approximately equal at 127, then at 131 you will lose.
Besides, there are cases when a FB (Fortress Battle) occurs, and armies are lost on both sides; then blue has no chance at all if the main city of blue is within range.
KobRa_RR
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I'll add my two cents: in most situations, the player who goes first wins, although not with the same probability as in chess. :)
It would be great if someone could compile some statistical data on games.
It would be great if someone could compile some statistical data on games.
Wicc
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You list so many advantages of blue, and that's right, you need to list everything first to make a decision...
But here's an argument and a question for you to ponder: Why, when playing as the Cherkess, does the player who chooses the color much more often pick red?
In my opinion, it's because they believe that being red is more advantageous. And if that's the case, then there's no need to make red even stronger.
2) Following the trend - strong players usually have an aggressive play style, so psychologically, they prefer red.
3) Patterns - I've already listed where and how.
The main argument against the red rush is not that red is weak, but that the impact of the red rush on the outcome of the game is noticeably less than the hassle it creates. Because most red rushes happen on weak units that are killed with or without a bonus, or on empty castles. That's why there were often ideas to amend the rules, such as "if it doesn't affect the outcome of the battle." But due to the difficulty of determining whether it does or not, they always decided to stick with the simpler option: "no, and that's it."
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Red is chosen 1) out of tradition – it’s believed to be better (hmm, I was faster) 2) due to a lack of knowledge about the advantages of blue, and 3) wisely, because for those who need to decide in just one day, it’s the right choice.
Wicc
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I'll add my two cents: in most situations, the player who goes first wins, although not with the same probability as in chess. :)
It would be great if someone collected statistical data on games.
In Heroes, however, the colors are quite well balanced.
Dirty_Player
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It would be great if someone could compile some statistical data on the games.
Red is chosen 1) out of tradition - it is believed to give better starting positions...(hmm, I was ahead of you))
Lider1
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in my opinion, the ban on red rushes is more of a tradition, stemming from the fact that natural growth always mattered the most + a desire for a more peaceful gameplay (hence the rest after an encounter, which is now, in my opinion, used in a perverted way, deviating from its original purpose) and it's not really relevant anymore.
This is very well said :smile20:
Added 1 minute ago
And what about phrases like "went for a red rush" or "went hoping for a red rush"? They spent 2 hours, and then BAM, a RED rush. Okay xD
In my opinion, all of this needs to be individually added to each template. Templates are different, and the rules for each template differ. There's nothing wrong with that.
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Pit compiled the data. No influence of color on the outcome of the game was detected.
Does the lack of influence on the overall result mean that there will be the same lack of influence on the result in games played by the best players?
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Blue's goal is to prevent such a situation — to fight on turn 127 and drive away the invader. If this battle is won, then it's possible to buy off the attack with growth, as he still won't reach the town. And if it's lost, then blue played worse and rightfully loses the game.
If the rule is introduced, then of course blue's goal will be to prevent the red-rush, but why should we make the game harder for blue and easier for red.
What matters is not the loss of the army, but the loss of the hero — if red's main hero ends up in the tavern, then he won't be able to red-rush blue's town purely based on movement points.
Added after 15 minutes
The main argument against red-rush is not that red is weak, but that the impact of red-rush on the game outcome is noticeably less than the hemorrhaging it creates. Because the main red-rushes happen on scout heroes, which are killed with and without growth, or on empty castles. That's why ideas were often voiced to amend the rules along the lines of "if it doesn't affect the outcome of the battle". But due to the difficulty of determining whether it affects it or not, each time we decided to keep the simpler version "it's not allowed, period".
Reds are not weak, they are strong. If red were weak, people playing blue at color pick would choose blue color, and they wouldn't care about your so-called traditions.
A long time ago, there was a rule here that you could attack a scout hero if it doesn't affect the outcome; they only removed it this summer (and even then, I disagree with it)
In almost all tournaments, the host immediately determines before the color pick who will play red, and the other one starts the color pick. There was an experience when during a restart they swapped colors, and even that was changed during the tournament... because they understood it's not fair if one starts picking colors and can also decide to play red.
And regarding the inconvenience that red bought out an army and then gets denied by the ban on attacking towns, no one forces him to carry the army with him; go capture blue's town, make sure you don't have new growth on your hero, and blue won't have it either.
Pyre
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I think the red rush should be disabled not based on some templates, but based on when it is no longer relevant in terms of time. For example, on the second week, the extra boost in most cases can be decisive on any template. Therefore, it can be disabled on all templates starting from the third week.
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Okay, **Pyre**, can a red rush with control resolve the situation in 8mm6a by the third week? Or by the fourth?
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It's hard to believe that color affects the quality of the spawn. Isn't that overkill?
It's like going to a casino in a red shirt and the chip lands properly :). If I put on a blue one, the suit won't go my way.
But perhaps I don't know enough.
Confirm how realistic the info in Post 764 is.
From personal observations — yes, in SMK the blue respawn is slightly less than the red respawn, and "dungeon" castles are more often dealt in the underground for blue. Although here it's probably not the color itself that matters, but zone 2, where blue starts.
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