A program for calculating the strength of the guard on random maps in Heroes of Might and Magic III, called H3CalcGuards. — Reference materials for online players.

Sav

13 years ago

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The issue is that Fortress creatures have a bug with the distribution of adv low / adv high creatures. Specifically, for Gorgons, it's 12 and 25 (for all normal level 5 creatures, it's 10 and 16). The minimum average number of creatures that can be is approximately (adv low + adv high)/2. For Gorgons, this comes out to about 18. At the same time, Gorgons have a fairly high AI Value. So, it's not surprising that they are generated only for quite valuable guards, more valuable than enough for Wyverns.
Or, perhaps, Gorgons appeared, but they are not in the list? If so, it's possible that the map has a different number of zones with a native city dwelling than was entered into the program. In addition, the resource can be either a specific resource or a random resource - it is impossible to distinguish them in the game, and they have different values.

zoog

13 years ago

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Oh, by the way, what are "adv low" and "adv high"? [off] And even for upgraded ones, their Value is still lower than that of wyverns...[/off]
They really appeared there, and only one town is needed.

In reply to Sav

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Sav

The problem is that the Fortress creatures have a bug with the distribution of adv low / adv high creatures. In particular, for Gorgons, it's 12 and 25 (for all normal level 5 creatures, it's 10 and 16).

I think this is because Gorgons were originally planned as a level 3 unit (I read it somewhere, but I don't remember where).

P.S. Returning to the topic of Djinns and Pandoras. Below is a save game. The passwords are KO and 123, respectively.

Attachments 1

1 file attached • Total size: 244.4 KB

zip

Dirty_Player vs Captain [1] 113

244.4 KB 85

Sav

13 years ago

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Was there definitely no resource that was taken from under the shifted guard earlier? If genies guarded not only the Pandora box but also a resource (mercury/sulfur/crystals/dragon stones), then everything would be fine. There is also a theoretical possibility: initially, a Pandora box and, say, an artifact of the Seer worth 5000 experience points were generated in a cluster, and they had a guard. But then the generator tried to place a Seer's hut somewhere and failed. Then it tried to replace the Seer's artifact with something else and failed again. In this case, the Seer's artifact is simply removed without reducing the guard. The same may happen with the Key Master's tent. However, in this case, it is unlikely: the red zone is filled first, and the generator has no reason why it would not be possible to place a Seer's hut (or a reward pillar for the Key Master's tent) somewhere in another zone for the artifact. Apparently, I will have to recheck the entire mechanism.

zoog

By the way, what is adv low / adv high? [off] And even the value of their upgraded versions is still less than that of wyverns...[/off]
Did they really appear, and only one city is needed?

Well, I wrote that they determine the minimum number of creatures during generation. That is, the minimum number of Gorgons is much higher than that of Wyverns, which is why Wyverns can appear at lower values. Is there only one city if you count it exactly as described there: http://forum.df2.ru/index.php?s=&showtopic=29068&view=findpost&p=575859?
That is, all the zones that influence this have already been explored, etc.?

In reply to Sav

Dirty_Player

13 years ago

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Sav

Was there definitely no resource there that had been taken from under the shifted guard earlier? If genies were guarding not only the Pandora's Box but also a resource (mercury/sulfur/crystals/dragon stones), then everything would be fine.

I opened save 111, and there was definitely no pile of anything.
Maybe the experience has the same value as gold? (although in my observations, it's still less.)

Sav

13 years ago

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Less. For experience, value = amount of experience; for gold, value = 6/5 * (amount of gold). I will then emulate the situation (fortunately, the map seed, which specifies all its random elements, is indicated in the description), and see what happens there. Ideally, sooner or later, I should be able to get to the bottom of it. :)

Sav

13 years ago

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Thank you very much for pointing out the error with the Pandora items! It turns out that during my research, I confused Pandora items with gold and experience (and I made the mistake so long ago that I subsequently no longer doubted which was which, trusting what I had written earlier).
Pandora items with experience are still more valuable than Pandora items with gold. And that Pandora item with 15,000 experience was worth 18,000, which averages out to 31 Djinns.

I have updated the program using the old link (i.e., the link from the first post now contains the new version): http://yadi.sk/d/Lg48jhvZ2BoJg
In addition to the error with the Pandora items in the text file, I also fixed a small bug in the program itself: when the number of cities was changed, the label with the total value of the group of objects was not updated.

Juristis

13 years ago

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Here! And I was surprised at the very beginning that Pandora with gold is more valuable than Pandora with experience; it always seemed to me that it was the other way around. But I decided that I must have just imagined it, and the developers know better.

zoog

13 years ago

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Sav

Well, I wrote that they determine the minimum number of creatures during generation. That is, the minimum number of Gorgons is much higher than that of Wyverns, which is why Wyverns can appear at lower values.

And where can I see these numbers? They would be quite useful. In this case, there were 20+ Gorgons.

One city, if you count it exactly as described there: http://forum.df2.ru/index.php?s=&sho...dpost&p=575859 ?
That is, all the zones that influence this have already been explored, etc.?

Yes, I looked at it first.
[off]Something isn't working for me to upload anything to the forum lately; otherwise, I would have uploaded the save file a long time ago. By the way, what should I use to edit H3CalcGuardsData.txt? It messes up the text, removing quotes.[/off]

Sav

13 years ago

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zoog

Where can I find these numbers? They seem useful.

In crtraits.txt. Or, rather, in H3CalcGuardsData.txt.

zoog

By the way, what should I use to edit H3CalcGuardsData.txt? Notepad messes up the formatting, removing quotes.

Use Notepad. Everything is in plain text.

I can't add anything about Gorgons right now, but if you provide a save file, I can simulate that generation and figure out what's going on.

DracoLich

13 years ago

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Why are tools met with such disapproval? Are the veterans afraid of newcomers who are equipped with super programs? :D
He first appeared in a decent project, great! ^_^

Мои трассы для великолепной TrackMania Nations
Кампании, биографии командиров и ERM-помощь для WoG 3.58f

In reply to DracoLich

crzq

13 years ago

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DracoLich

Why are tools met with such disapproval? Are the veterans afraid of newcomers who are equipped with super programs? :D
Saw first appeared in a decent project, great ^_^

The disapproval stems from the excessive amount of time spent using these programs during gameplay, especially when the timer is paused during battles. If a timer similar to the one in War of the Chosen is implemented, I think there will be fewer dissatisfied players, as well as fewer who regularly use such programs.

Grando

13 years ago

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It's immediately obvious that this person has never actually used this program...
95% of the time, it's used during the opponent's turn.

In reply to Grando

rebellious

13 years ago

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Oldboy

It's immediately clear that this is someone who has never actually used this program...
In 95% of cases, it's used during the opponent's turn.

It's actually much simpler:D I just confused this program with another program for calculating damage. In principle, it's impossible to use it in battle because you can't see the map. Or maybe it's just a case of "I haven't read it, but I'm judging it."

zoog

13 years ago

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Simply feeling the strength of the enemy, as well as your own, is a very important component of the game, and it may seem that this program will provide it for beginners.