DISCUSSIONS on “Rules for online games in HoMM3 and formulas for calculating player rating.” — Online Tournaments

c0nn3c71nkK.ppL

2/11/2013 12:49 PM UTC

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favio

And who will do that? I doubt there are people willing to spend their time on something like that.

People who are regular viewers of a particular streamer's stream. It's not that complicated, a right-click and a ban for the evening. The question is whether the moderator is reasonable, but there are many of them. The streamer knows many viewers and has people he could trust.

In reply to Pit for LM

HellLighT

2/11/2013 1:09 PM UTC

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People who "constantly" watch streams cannot be considered objective and unbiased by default, so all of this is utter nonsense. There are things that are truly worth addressing in the rules; everything that could be done based on streams has long been invented. You might as well try to teach your parents how to live... don't waste your time.

In reply to HellLighT

favio

2/11/2013 1:12 PM UTC

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I think the best solution would be to include a clause about requesting permission to stream, ensuring that the opponent doesn't object. That's how I resolved the issue with TheVinz; otherwise, there was no other way.

In reply to favio

twaryna

2/11/2013 2:35 PM UTC

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favio

I think the truly best solution would be a clause about requesting permission to stream, asking if the opponent minds. That is exactly how I solved this problem with TheVinz; there's no other way.
Maybe also ask if it's okay to use the HD mod, and if the opponent is against it, play "pure" SoD? There's no need to even ask about the damage calculator, as that' same as a "cheat". Basically, this is all nonsense.

http://heroes3.tv/twaryna

In reply to Pit for LM

Сатир

2/11/2013 5:15 PM UTC

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By the way, you can also ban the calculator.

Не бійся коли ти один, бійся коли ти нуль.

484800548

In reply to Pit for LM

JustObserver

2/11/2013 6:43 PM UTC

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Stop trying to regulate the activity of viewers – those who want to achieve their goals will do so anyway.

In reply to Yakudza

Juristis

5/15/2013 3:54 PM UTC

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A level 30 Isra from the dungeon can fight; Isra of other levels from the dungeon, without Necromancer experience, cannot. That's how I understand it.

In reply to Juristis

Dima Surmay

5/16/2013 5:03 AM UTC

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Lucky George

PS: 5.10.2. Izra and Vidomine are allowed to upgrade the "spellcasting" skill to the "expert" level only with the last skill offered. In this case, there are no restrictions on further use.
5.10.3. Izra and Vidomine, who have acquired the expert spellcasting skill in a way other than that specified in paragraph 5.10.2, cannot attack heroes, cities, mines with a garrison, or neutral monsters.

I would like clarification:

In my opinion, paragraph (5.10.3.1 Izra and Vidomine, released from prison and having the expert spellcasting skill at the time of release, (CANNOT) attack heroes, cities, mines with a garrison, or neutral monsters) is missing.
I'm not arguing that the rules are much more positive than WCL (IMHO), but comments on them would still be helpful. Thank you in advance for reasonable answers.

In this case, no additional points are needed; the rules are completely clear. Read paragraph 5.10.2 again, and if your case does not fit, then it means you cannot fight.

The only thing that I think could be added is: If it turns out that Izra or Vidomine obtained expert necromancy before the last skill offered, they certainly cannot attack, but if they upgrade 12 skills to expert, then it can be allowed for them to fight. But this is such a rare case that it is not worth adding more rules.

In reply to Dima Surmay

Grando

5/16/2013 6:14 AM UTC

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Dima Surmay

In this case, no additional points are needed; the rules are completely clear. Read section 5.10.2 again, and if your case doesn't fit, it means you can't participate in the battle.

That's what I'm talking about.

Obviously, if you follow the letter of the rules, this hero couldn't participate in the battle.

But if you follow the spirit of the rules, as I, for example, or Juristis above, understand it, then he could.

If the letter and the spirit of the law don't match, it's customary to change the letter!

In reply to Grando

Dima Surmay

5/16/2013 6:23 AM UTC

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Oldboy

If the letter and spirit of the law do not align, then it is customary to change the letter!

In this case, everything aligns, and there is no need to change anything.

In reply to Juristis

Dima Surmay

5/16/2013 7:06 AM UTC

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Chingis

Too many words, but it's unclear.

I freed Izru, level 30, from prison many times. Can she be used in battles? It hasn't been proven that she maxed out her Necromancy skill as her last skill.

You can, you have the right to believe that she maxed it out last.

In reply to Juristis

Grando

5/16/2013 7:09 AM UTC

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Nah, not really. "Izra and Vidomina, who gained the Expert Spellcasting skill through a method different from the one specified in section 5.10.2..." Izra and Vidomina, who escaped from prison, gained Expert Spellcasting through a method different from the one specified in section 5.10.2. That is, strictly following the RULES, they cannot be used. And I insist that it's not a given that allowing them to be used in this situation is self-evident (although I personally understand the idea behind the rules, that they can be used), but the fact remains that it's much easier to free an overpowered hero from prison than to develop them independently! And the purpose of the rule was to limit this overpoweredness. Another question is what exactly they meant. And since I myself am a fan of the Warlord mode, where necromancy is completely disabled, I am not really capable of understanding these nuances. This rule is a workaround. No matter how you phrase it, it's still a clumsy workaround. It's impossible to understand anything based on common sense here (think about it - in Warlord mode, with necromancy disabled, the undead faction still consistently remains in the top 3, and with necromancy enabled in the SoD expansion, I've seen players simply switch to necromancer heroes). Common sense has not yet prevailed in this rule, so it simply needs to be reformulated to avoid ambiguity.

In reply to Juristis

Dima Surmay

5/16/2013 7:20 AM UTC

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What makes you think that heroes freed from the dungeon are not the last ones to level up? And it's not about leveling up a hero or freeing them from the dungeon... When the rules were written, the ban was introduced to prevent people from cheating after battles... because there were suggestions to delete skeletons after the battle, but since it's very difficult to check, a complete ban was introduced.

In reply to Grando

Heroin_HP

5/16/2013 7:27 AM UTC

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Oldboy

No way.

"Izra and Vidomina, who gained the Expert Spellcasting skill through a method different from the one specified in section 5.10.2...."

Izra and Vidomina, who escaped from prison, gained Expert Spellcasting through a method different from the one specified in section 5.10.2.
That is, strictly following the RULES, they cannot be used.

And I insist that it is not at all a given that allowing them to be used in this situation is self-evident (although I personally agree that they can be used) - but the fact remains that it is much easier to free an overpowered hero from prison than to develop them independently!!!
And the purpose of the rule was to limit this overpoweredness. Another question is what exactly was meant.

And since I myself am a dedicated Warlord player, where necromancy is completely disabled, I am not capable of understanding these nuances. This rule is a workaround. No matter how you phrase it, it's still a clumsy workaround. Relying on common sense, it is still impossible to understand anything (think about it - in Warlord, even with necromancy disabled, the undead still consistently remain in the top 3 factions, and with it enabled in Stronghold, I have repeatedly seen players simply switch to the undead).
Common sense has not yet prevailed in this rule, so it simply needs to be reformulated to avoid ambiguity.

Pay attention to the phrase "last skill" in the rules; everything is clearly stated in the rules. Regarding Izra at level 30 with full development, I don't think there is any prohibition here; the question is if only one skill is not developed, and Expert Necromancy is present, then simply remove skeletons until you fully develop Izra. You can also act in this way if you catch her in prison at level 5, develop all her other skills, and then necromancy, if you want; otherwise, the rules clearly apply!

In reply to Dima Surmay

Grando

5/16/2013 7:28 AM UTC

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Dima Surmay

What makes you think that heroes freed from prison are not the last ones to be upgraded?

And what makes you think they are the last ones? The method is clearly described in section 5.10.2. Freeing a hero from prison is a different method.
And again, about all other methods - it is clearly stated - if it's not 5.10.2, then there's no point. And I'll repeat the "motivational part" - the essence of the rule is to limit overpowered heroes - freeing a hero from prison is much easier than leveling them up independently, so it makes sense to limit such an easy way to get a powerful hero.