Posts from Let's organize a tournament.

ABKSever,
Good idea, I would try playing, in this scenario there is a chance to win at least a few games (although of course, participation is the most important thing).

Andrey, your formula has a small flaw – if 10 masters and 6 newcomers emerge, then 4 masters will play against each other – which means some will be “lucky” in the early stages of the playoffs, while others won’t. There are 2 options here: 1. Generate pairs randomly. 2. Seed based on group results – but then either “newcomers” will face seasoned players like Villa/Exa/Dima/Adv/Moza in the first round, or we lead newcomers and masters through the bracket separately and only bring them together closer to the final.

Andrey, your formula has a small flaw – if there are 10 masters and 6 newcomers, then 4 masters will play against each other – which means some will be "lucky" in the early stages of the playoffs, and others won't. There are 2 options here:
1. Generate pairs randomly.
2. Seed based on group results – but then either the "newcomers" will have to compete in the first round against experienced players like Will, Exa, Dima, Adv, Moza, or we keep newcomers and masters in separate brackets and only bring them together closer to the final.

Well, we won't have exactly 10 masters this time, I think, there will be more mid-level players competing against other mid-level players. We should determine the pairs based on the results of the group stage, and those who performed better in the group will be "lucky" in the early stages, which seems fair to me. And the fact that the strongest players will face the weakest of those who made it to the playoffs in the first round, and the mid-level players will face other mid-level players, is also quite fair. This system is practiced in many sports (basketball, hockey, etc.), and in the end, the strongest will still win.

I would rather suggest a separate bracket for experienced players and newcomers – this would ensure a fair playoff leading up to the grand final. And in the grand final, a game could be played with a handicap – for example, the newcomer chooses the map color and faction. Or, in the overall playoff, a handicap (perhaps not as significant) could be given to players from the newcomers' bracket.

I would rather suggest a separate bracket for experienced and new players – this would create a fair playoff until the super final. And in the super final, a game could be played with a handicap – for example, the new player chooses the map color and castle. Or, in the general playoff, give a handicap (perhaps not so significant) to players from the new player bracket.

I support this, it hasn't been done before, as far as I remember.
As a rule, weaker players are eliminated in the early stages of the playoff, but with separate brackets, there would be a chance to reach the final in their weight category. For the super final, it could be arranged so that, for example, the Warlock is chosen from 4 races, and the list of races is chosen by the weaker player for himself and his opponent. So that he has a chance to keep the races with which he can play best, and the "experienced player" shouldn't care what he plays.

Well, the concept for the future tournament is starting to take shape. Basically, that's what I had in mind: to hold tournaments with a unified set of rules, but with subgroups, for example, a "top division" and a "first division," with the idea that the finalists of the "first division" would eventually have the opportunity to compete in a tournament with the "veterans."

Good idea. I support it.

I support that too!

Hey guys, just a quick update on the situation. Lesha and I have always been against dividing players into "noobs" and "masters" without a sufficient number of games played. You simply can't learn by playing against players without enough experience.
The "Masters" system has been implemented, although not exactly as we envisioned. It was intended to be a separate tournament for players who play frequently, more than once a week. I think such a tournament should be held no more than once a year, or even once every two years.

Secondly, please plan the tournament, keeping in mind that registration for the League Cup 2013 (a classic tournament) will start in a week or two.

Regarding the results of the team tournament, "Strength vs. Magic, Good vs. Evil," I really enjoyed the team aspect. I'd like to explore this direction further.

Guys, just to clarify. Lesha and I have always been against dividing players into "noobs" and "masters" without a sufficient number of games. You simply can't learn by playing against other players.

I don't know who you mean by "Lesha," but I definitely know that I have always been against dividing players based on their gaming experience, and I still am. However, a precedent has already been set in the League, and unfortunately, some players have gotten used to it. Let's not point fingers. The idea of divisions is being discussed precisely to prevent the situation from evolving into a "closed club." Two divisions are being formed, and in each of them, opponents can play a round-robin tournament within the framework of the tournament rules. I am a supporter of this format, where everyone plays everyone else within their division, and the final results of these games most fully reflect the standings, unlike the Swiss system. Now, about the advantages of divisions: 1) Relatively equal composition of the divisions; 2) Minimization of "easy" points; 3) Minimization of technical losses; 4) Minimization of forfeited matches (based on the principle that "it doesn't matter anyway, I have nothing to lose"); 5) Possible reduction in tournament duration, even with a round-robin (three divisions could be considered!); 6) And perhaps most importantly, the emergence of real motivation and risks, because the results of the games will allow players from the first division not only to advance to the playoff matches with players from the higher division within the tournament but also to move into this very "higher division" based on the results. Conversely, the player (or players) from the higher division who finishes in last place will be moved to the first division (like in football leagues). A tournament with such rules can be made permanent (seasonal or quarterly, or something else). And, of course, other tournaments, such as cup tournaments, etc., can be held in parallel. That's the idea.

Leo, if the hw resource is ready to handle this colossal task, I can only take my hat off.
I can say that this won't happen on the league in the near future.

Problems: influx of new players, almost no solutions, we are still reaping the rewards of Tari and Tvarinich's work.
Even in game 3, where there are more players, they can't do it.

Although I liked the Novice tournament, if it's modified for game 5, it might work.

Organization: Kirill can't do it alone, he can't live like this :(
There should be 3-4 people, and another 3-4 judges on standby.

Coverage in game 5 is almost non-existent; there are no streams, except for Moza's stream and Dima's stream. Upon request, they include Exz, Will, Adv, Y11 - but they are almost all without voice, and Moza's stream needs to be watched with a prepared mind.

Solve the issues, and I'll help in any way I can, and everything will be successful.

Leo, I already wrote that in my opinion divisions are a failure and explained why — those who drop down from the top will simply abandon HeroesWorld league, especially since HL and HP exist.

I'll post an ad here if the moderators don't mind:

A LAN tournament in Kyiv is proposed for the May holidays — those interested, please reply on the league (and vote) or message me directly. No need to duplicate. A decision on whether to hold it or not must be made now, because we need to arrange a hotel and a club, and some people need to buy plane tickets. So far we don't have enough participants — we'd like around 16 people to start the process.

http://forum.heroesleague.ru/viewtopic.php?t=21695

The idea of divisions with player rotation is not new and is not universally welcomed. I attempted to introduce this tournament structure in 2012 on HeroesPortal. It didn't lead to much success. The main reason: the lack of a consistent player base and an influx of new players. An indirect reason: practically the same players are playing on HeroesLeague and, more recently, on HeroesWorld at the same time. http://www.heroesportal.net/tavern/?forumid=59 - check out the 3 tournaments from the Summer season. Why did I only start doing this in the summer? Because there was good activity in the spring... Before introducing the idea of divisions on HeroesPortal, I also suggested that sir_moz introduce the same thing on HeroesLeague, but with slight changes in the form of a Regular Championship... And before that, if anyone remembers, I suggested doing this more than once at almost every tournament on HeroesLeague... But that's not really the main point. The main thing is to make sure that players don't "scatter" across the 3 platforms. You could do something like this: HeroesLeague - top division HeroesWorld - first division HeroesPortal - second division or like this: HeroesLeague - top division HeroesPortal - first division HeroesWorld - second division

In my opinion, players are combining three resources into one inter-portal pool because the rules and tournament mod are currently unified. I think we need to promote current tournaments more across all portals, and we will have a unified inter-portal community playing Heroes 5 on maps.

You could even do this:
HeroesLeague - top division
HeroesWorld - first division
HeroesPortal - second division
or this:
HeroesLeague - top division
HeroesPortal - first division
HeroesWorld - second division

But that's really unnecessary. If you think about it, Portal, if not for the seasonal events that you, Kirill, run, is practically dead in terms of 5v5 online play. So there's nothing for us to divide with Portal. If Moza were moved from League to HeroesWorld and given moderator/organizer status, then League could remain focused on RTA, as 3v3 online play has long been dead there. But League is more than just a place to hold tournaments for Moza, so that's not really what we're talking about. IMO, dividing players based on resources is more harmful than dividing them by divisions.
In the grand scheme of things, we could have just left this topic alone. We've been playing tournaments for years, why not just continue playing?