[2x2 Tournament] Resurrection — Tournament History online

In reply to Mizrael

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Registered: 10/12/2009 5:34 PM UTC

Posts: 526

1/9/2013 7:22 AM UTC #308

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Mizrael

So, it seems the old, reliable "flamingo" tactic was meant for creating a loop. When a berserked monostack, moving slowly, simply can't reach anyone and the player has no control over the battle.

Okay, it's the blind-slow-berserk combo.
But the counter to blind is definitely antimagic on the Viv.
In a real match, there was indeed a berserk first, and the partner cast Implosion, which led to the well-known result.
And even though the Vivs were already taking down 2 archers each, they retaliated with 7 geese.
Initially, I was hoping that the Vivs would berserk near their own ballista-tents, which would give a chance to regain control of the battle if morale dropped.
And if they were behind the walls, then the scenario described above would work, when the entire remaining army is killed – a familiar situation.
Implosion can be channeled, and if you pay to cancel it, you can immediately attack with a golem.

In any case, what happened revealed terrible secrets of offline play, and now they will either be legalized or somehow regulated, determining what, where, and how is the most correct. Berserk is strong even without this, especially in War of the Throne with its increased fire damage

"...the personal strengths and weaknesses of a leader are no true indication of the merits of his cause"

(с) Roger Zelazny

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Registered: 9/26/2008 2:20 PM UTC

Posts: 2,571

1/9/2013 8:01 AM UTC #309

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The terrible secrets of offline gameplay have long been described in the physical guide, as well as in AlexSPL's posts; furthermore, the aforementioned idea on Facebook is not scary – 1 morale for Berserk Vivs and Oblomino-Flamingo.

Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.

In reply to Javdet

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Registered: 10/16/2007 6:22 AM UTC

Posts: 3,358

1/9/2013 9:04 AM UTC #310

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Javdet

Well, yes, expressing joy in that way wasn't entirely appropriate. :rolleyes:
Since the outcome of the game was decided by a random generator, please carry out the victory in a civilized manner, without gloating. ))))

It seems so. But the real game is about EMOTIONS. We shouldn't forget about them either.)

Oelm

The terrible secrets of offline play have long been described in the FizMiG, as well as in AlexSPL's posts; in addition, the idea mentioned above on Facebook is not scary: 1 morale for Berserk Vivs and Oblimingo-Flamingo.

+100500 "Terrible Secrets" can be viewed by anyone in FizMiG, page 72.

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to Lider1

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Registered: 3/8/2009 12:54 AM UTC

Posts: 432

1/9/2013 9:55 AM UTC #311

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The berserk bug is quite unique... while the bug with a two-hex unit in tactical mode can be understood, the berserk bug clearly wasn't intended, either in the berserk spell itself or in the game as a whole. That's my personal opinion, although there will certainly be those who disagree. The main point is: I personally believe that it shouldn't be used against opponents, precisely because the berserk spell with this bug turns into an incredibly powerful spell. I myself have been caught in a battle with this bug, and I asked my opponent to replay – they agreed. I caught a couple of opponents doing the same, and I offered to replay. The fact that LeBron and Dirty didn't want to replay is their personal decision. I think their behavior is wrong, although judging by the posts here, many support them. Considering the "mockery" of the opponent, and the fact that they are also tournament organizers, I would have withdrawn from the tournament in the place of Vova and Hellight.

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 5/8/2009 8:21 PM UTC

Posts: 3,778

1/9/2013 10:05 AM UTC #312

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Samurai

The berserk bug is quite unique... while the bug with a two-hex unit in tactical mode can be understood, the berserk bug clearly wasn't intended, either in the berserk spell itself or in the game as a whole. That's my personal opinion, although I'm sure there will be those who disagree.
The main point is: I personally believe that it shouldn't be used against opponents, precisely because the berserk spell, with this bug, turns into an incredibly powerful spell. I myself was caught in a battle with this bug, and I asked my opponent to replay – they agreed. I caught a couple of opponents doing the same, and I offered to replay.
The fact that Lebron and Dirty didn't want to replay is their personal decision. I think their behavior is wrong, although judging by the posts here, many support them. Considering the "mocking" of the opponent, and the fact that they are also the organizers of the tournament, I would have withdrawn from the tournament in Vova and Hellight's place.

I agree, considering the mocking... it's not right and it's not ethical. But in terms of the game, everything was normal... they were already in a less pleasant situation. If someone found and can use a spell, why shouldn't they apply it? Especially since Hell himself ended up there. Here, it's simply a defeat due to a lack of knowledge; the information is available. If Dirty and Lebron had prepared better, who should they blame? Moreover, these phrases about withdrawing are not serious at all... It's simply clear that there's resentment that such a powerful stack can be rarely assembled and upgraded, and then lost so easily... in any case, this will remain a lesson for them and for other players.

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

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Registered: 5/5/2012 6:15 PM UTC

Posts: 1,211

1/9/2013 10:05 AM UTC #313

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A spell of monstrous power that is blocked by a common artifact – a cool story.

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Registered: 6/7/2007 3:41 AM UTC

Posts: 1,523

1/9/2013 10:08 AM UTC #314

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the mockery came from Hellight during the final battle, and our joy was largely a reaction to that.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D

In reply to LeBron

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Registered: 5/8/2009 8:21 PM UTC

Posts: 3,778

1/9/2013 10:09 AM UTC #315

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LeBron

the taunting was actually from Hellight during the final battle

Well, in that case, no questions.

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

In reply to Samurai

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Registered: 3/18/2008 7:49 PM UTC

Posts: 3,172

1/9/2013 10:20 AM UTC #316

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Samurai

Considering the "mocking" of the opponent, and the fact that they are also tournament organizers, I would withdraw from the tournament in Vova and Hellight's place.

Damn, I didn't express myself clearly, and as a result, this phrase was interpreted differently. What I meant, of course, was that the mocking came from Hell. If an opponent who received a bonus from the generator in the form of half a hundred free lives started making fun of me in the final, even after I explained that using such a bug is not fair, I would stick to my principles and play exactly the same way as Dirty, without the slightest remorse.
Moreover, the guys didn't immediately realize that the lives were passed on; it all happened spontaneously. Accusations of intentionally using the bug are completely absurd.

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

In reply to Javdet

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Registered: 5/8/2009 8:21 PM UTC

Posts: 3,778

1/9/2013 10:25 AM UTC #317

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Javdet

Damn, I didn't express myself clearly, and as a result, this phrase was interpreted in different ways. I meant, of course, that the mockery came from Hell. If an opponent who received a bonus from the generator in the form of half a hundred free units started making fun of me in the final, even if I was convinced that using such a bug was not right, I would stick to my principles and play exactly the same way as Dirty, without the slightest remorse.
Besides, the guys didn't realize right away that the units were passed, it all happened spontaneously. Accusations of intentionally using the bug are completely absurd.

Yes, I noticed that too. The emphasis was on making the stack of units not look like it and beating all the other stacks, but it turned out even better.

Удача любит подготовленных!!!

Стримы и обучение тут:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWlnXU5R5RLCMuWzIpBc65Q

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Registered: 9/26/2008 2:20 PM UTC

Posts: 2,571

1/9/2013 10:35 AM UTC #318

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The main point is: I personally believe that it shouldn't be used against opponents, precisely because a Berserker with such a bug turns into an incredibly powerful spellcaster. I personally fell victim to this bug in a battle, and asked my opponent to replay – they agreed. I caught a couple of opponents doing the same – I offered to replay myself.

Complete absurdity. What should you do if your opponent has two stacks left, let's say wolves and wyverns, and you have a Mass Berserk? Are you suggesting not using it, just in case it glitches?:D

Земля нуля.
Все в ней нулево и кукольно.

In reply to Oelm

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Registered: 6/20/2011 9:20 PM UTC

Posts: 269

1/9/2013 10:49 AM UTC #319

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I think the players did a great job – they held a fantastic final. The mockery of Opponent was hilarious:smile44:. I haven't heard such nonsense in a long time – the comments about the real "papacy" were very appropriate – the final was a close call:smile10:. I also lost to Berserk due to mistakes and a poor Facebook build – it was incredibly frustrating, but what can you do? I can only advise the losers to improve their Facebook builds (I also often have problems with Facebook builds:rolleyes:).

Зима 2011-12.

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Registered: 6/27/2008 4:31 AM UTC

Posts: 1,541

1/9/2013 11:34 AM UTC #320

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The issue has been brought to the AC for discussion, but by and large, the only thing that can really be discussed here is the berserker itself and the possibilities of limiting it in the future. As for this specific case, I will speak in my capacity as a judge :cool: .
To argue that the rules were violated, one must first consult said rules. In this instance, the tournament regulations contain no mention of fair play (regarding the use of bugs), and there is no reference to HeroesWorld tournament rules, meaning the organizers are free to decide such matters at their discretion (it's unpleasant, of course, that the organizers and players are the same individuals here, but what can you do). LeBron and Dirty considered this an acceptable "feature" (especially since it is described in the physics mechanics) - so be it.

If a similar situation occurred in an official tournament, the issue would be less clear-cut, because according to HeroesWorld's main rule - "fair play" - the use of various "bugs" is prohibited, and I cannot, even with a stretch, call this nuance with the berserker a feature; it is a genuine bug, as is. However, due to the nature of the [berserker] class, regulating it through restrictions is extremely difficult, if not impossible, which means it would have to be accepted as permissible and, possibly, the developers might be asked to fix its mechanics in the HD mod in the future, if it is fixable at all.

As for HellLight, I can only offer advice: treat your opponents with respect, and if you allow yourself to mock them, then accept the retaliation with honor. And withdrawing from the tournament because of this is just completely unacceptable - you would let down both the organizers and your partner. I hope you have thought it all over with a clear head and changed your decision.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to numOne

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Registered: 6/7/2007 3:41 AM UTC

Posts: 1,523

1/9/2013 11:48 AM UTC #321

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numOne

it is forbidden to use all sorts of "bugs"

This rule is too vague. In this case, it would be forbidden to use, for example, infinite ammunition for ballistas, sulfur from naganbuks, the artifact "badge of courage," and many other things. However, it is practically impossible to control this, and is it even worth it? If both opponents can use these bugs, they do not give any critical advantage, and therefore do not create any imbalance in the game. Such rules as the ban on berserk should be written in a very specific and precise formulation that does not allow for double interpretation.

"Это нам идеально подходит!" [Новосибирск, 2013]
"Красавчик! Если только не читер.." [Киев, 2014]
"Это Вам не шутки - нажрался Dust в маршрутке" [Новокузнецк, 2015]
Сам ты фиш (с) :D

In reply to LeBron

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Registered: 6/27/2008 4:31 AM UTC

Posts: 1,541

1/9/2013 11:55 AM UTC #322

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LeBron

This is a very vague rule, and in that case, you wouldn't be able to use infinite ballista ammunition, sulfur from naganbuks, the Artifact of Bravery, and many other things. But it's practically impossible to control, and is it even worth it? If both opponents can use these exploits, they don't give any critical advantage, and therefore don't create any imbalance in the game. However, rules like banning Berserk should be written in a very specific and precise way, not allowing for double interpretations.

The wording is completely useless. The rules need to be edited, which I hope we will do soon.
I was saying that all the rules that allow for ambiguous interpretation need to be refined on a case-by-case basis, and if infinite arrows, wall reinforcement, etc., can be called a feature, then looping Berserk cannot be, it's a bug. But limiting it with rules is also not an option, as too many nuances can arise, including unforeseen ones.

P.S. By the way, the medal that prevents Berserk is banned, but the looping Berserk itself is not. Is that logical? :rolleyes:

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.