To Vigo or not to Vigo? That is the question. — Tournament Committee

Javdet

13 years ago

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Maybe we should remember the story with Jedde that happened a couple of years ago? Because of an avatar with breasts, good people were offended, and someone left the forum:(
I wouldn't want a repeat of that. The forum is held together by enthusiasm, and the patience of some of the active members (a silly word, but I couldn't think of a better one) could easily run out.
And if you weigh what Pete, Numwan, Dirty, and others have done against the actions of Vigo here and on the Portal... well, it could be a sad situation.
I didn't want to get involved in this mess, but I will, based on the latest events and this:smile11:

Since you can now defile Catch's noble deed with these mocking posts, that's the height of cynicism.

Даже если вас съели - у вас два выхода:smile19:

Зима 2011-12.

In reply to Vigo

Neoandy

13 years ago

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Vigo

On the contrary, I am very grateful to Sergey and Oleg for their understanding and help in resolving that issue!

You should start every one of your responses with this, regarding that ill-fated tournament, which is precisely why people stopped respecting the Portal.

Vigo

The guys helped me resolve it!

As far as I know (and quotes from Catch's posts confirm this), the guys weren't helping you; they were fulfilling the Portal's obligations, where the tournament was announced. Helping you personally would have been like a loan of $1,000 outside the forum, as a result of which you would have settled with the winners yourself. And you even had the audacity to allow Vitalik to handle (+pay out) the prize money, with whom you have such a close relationship, and within that tournament, you could certainly be considered equals. So, not only did you fail to fulfill your obligations, but you also profited from not fulfilling them! Naturally, after that, you got what you deserved from Gorbik :smile19:.

Vigo

The money for prize payments was borrowed from a private investor's fund.

Since it was borrowed, I assume you have already repaid it and can proudly announce this fact? Or did "borrowed from a private fund" smoothly turn into "free from a charitable fund"?

Vigo

My relationships, payments, contracts, and everything else should not concern anyone! (Except those closely involved!)

If you had borrowed money from this investor and, as I wrote above, paid the obligations to the winners of that tournament in your own name, then that would be the case. But since your obligations became the obligations of the Portal and, as a result, also harmed the reputation of its decent mages, unfortunately, the matter has become public.

Vigo

And what does this have to do with map hacking and unfair play?!

It is relevant as a characteristic of the accused's personality. In criminal cases, character references from the workplace/school, neighbors, etc., are always requested for this purpose.

P.S.: I didn't even plan to actively participate in this topic, but when I see such a cynical attitude, I can't just pass by in silence :(

Redwhait

13 years ago

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Psychological portrait? Pete, I'm sorry, but why do you care what kind of person he is? I don't remember you creating psychological portraits in previous investigations... Kilgore and Co., what the hell are you dragging personal financial matters into this? These are his problems, and he should solve them himself. He either has a conscience or he doesn't, but you're planning to ban him for it. Putting a "black mark" on him as an organizer is one thing, but banning him as a player is absurd. Furthermore, Vigo and Vigoboy, even if they helped out in the past, so what? A few years ago, my father was also registered on Heroes of Might and Magic, and due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to finish a couple of games for him or make a few moves. Is that grounds for a ban? He's an amateur now, plays against the computer, sometimes watches my game while having a beer, and even gave me advice on Facebook about a spell he couldn't figure out himself. We even won that Facebook game. I know of other examples with other players, but I won't bring them up. Next, a maphack that isn't 100% proven isn't considered a maphack. I didn't detect any here, and while the circumstances are strange, there were millions of similar strange occurrences before the saves were corrupted, and many of those players are still playing and nothing happened... If you're so sure about Vigo's maphack, then force him to play with password-protected saves. What's the problem? Conclusion: Vigo may not have great skills or a conscience, but putting a "black mark" on him based on "trifles" is absurd.

In reply to Redwhait

Lider1

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Furthermore, a maphack that is not proven to be 100% accurate is not considered a maphack.

Out of curiosity, tell me what a 100% proven maphack looks like in your opinion?

Сейчас балуюсь этим https://vcmi.eu/download/
За то что нейтралы не бегают за единичкой, для меня это уже стоит того

In reply to Redwhait

Dima Surmay

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

A few years ago, my father was also registered on Heroes of Might and Magic Online, and due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to play a couple of turns for him or make a few moves. Is that really grounds for a ban?

Yes, that should be a ban.

In reply to Lider1

Redwhait

13 years ago

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Lider1

Just out of curiosity, tell me what a 100% proven maphack looks like in your opinion?

:D

The thing is, if there are any doubts at all about a maphack, say 99% sure but 1% not, then you don't have the right to ban the person.

In reply to Redwhait

numOne

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Psychological portrait? Pete, I'm sorry, but does it really matter what kind of person he is?
I don't remember you ever creating a psychological portrait in previous investigations...

Kilgore and Co., what the hell are you dragging personal financial matters into?
These are his problems, and he should solve them himself. Either he has a conscience or he doesn't, but you're planning to ban him for it. Putting a "black mark" on him as an organizer is one thing, but banning him as a player is absurd.

As for Vigo and Vigoboy, even if they helped him in the past, so what?
A few years ago, my father was also registered on HP, and due to unforeseen circumstances, I had to play a couple of games for him or make a few moves. Is that grounds for a ban? He's an amateur now, plays against the AI, sometimes watches my games while having a beer, and even gave me advice on Facebook about a spell he couldn't figure out himself. We even won that Facebook game.
I know of other players who have similar situations, but I won't bring them up.

Furthermore, a maphack that isn't 100% proven isn't considered a maphack. I didn't detect any here, and while the circumstances are strange, there were millions of similar strange occurrences before the saves were compromised, and many of those players are still playing now...
If you're so sure about Vigo's maphack, then require him to play with password-protected saves. What's the problem?

Conclusion: Vigo may not have great skills or a strong conscience, but putting a "black mark" on him based on "trifles" is ridiculous.

And we're not going to put a "black mark" on him; we'll just issue a permanent ban from all official Tournaments (including the season). We're only offering this concession because he's a "good-natured" person.
And everything would be understandable – making him play with password-protected saves, etc. – if he played himself.

Пусть мой враг будет силен и страшен. Если я поборю его, то не буду чувствовать стыда.

In reply to Dima Surmay

Redwhait

13 years ago

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Dima Surmay

He should be banned for that.

Don't talk nonsense.

Added after 55 seconds

numOne

And it would all be understandable, if he played with password-protected saves, etc., if he played himself.

Well, make him play with a webcam :D

In reply to Redwhait

Dima Surmay

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Don't talk nonsense.

Read the rules!

In reply to Redwhait

Kilgor

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Psychological portrait. Pete, I'm sorry, but does it really matter to you what kind of person he is?

Conclusion: maybe Vigo doesn't have much skill or conscience, but to label him as a bad person based on "trifles" is absurd.

Everyone who participates (or might participate) in tournaments with him will be annoyed by what kind of person he is.
If he's a cheater, without conscience, without responsibility, and sometimes others play for him, why is he even needed here?

P.S. Regarding maphacks and the 99.9% issue, please take the time to search for information about it.

ICQ 245338291
Ник в лоби - Kilgory

In reply to Dima Surmay

Redwhait

13 years ago

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Dima Surmay

Read the rules!

Quote: :smile09:

In reply to Redwhait

Kilgor

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Quote: :smile09:

There's nothing to quote. It's about fair play. You cheated the admins. How about you let me play all the games with Mudet and Maretti? Do you feel the difference? On the other hand, if it was really due to unforeseen circumstances and happened only a couple of times, no one will ban you for it. But formally, I've told you.

ICQ 245338291
Ник в лоби - Kilgory

In reply to Redwhait

Dima Surmay

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

Quote: :smile09:

Fair Play
The most important point: players must play fairly and respect each other.

I think you won't argue that if one person is supposed to play, but another person plays for them, that's not fair.

In reply to Redwhait

Wicc

13 years ago

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Redwhait HP

:D

That's the point, if there are any doubts at all about map hacking, say 99% sure, but 1% not, then you don't have the right to ban a person.

If that were the case, no one could be banned, as there would always be possibilities.

Therefore, the criteria for a ban should be a little more lenient. In my opinion, 90% is enough for a ban, and 70-80% to launch a public campaign against the player, which would force him to respond and either justify himself or be discredited.

Vigo is discrediting himself with his answers in this thread, so it would have been better if he hadn't answered anything at all, and perhaps it would have been forgotten over time.

In reply to Kilgor

Redwhait

13 years ago

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Kilgor

What's there to quote? Fair play rules. You cheated the admins. How about Marette plays all the games for you instead? Do you feel the difference? On the other hand, if it was a genuine emergency and happened only a couple of times, no one will ban you for it. But formally, I've told you.

Cheating? Did you actually see Vitalik sitting and playing instead of Vigo? If not, then you can't say for sure...
Well, if Marette comes over and plays all the games under your nickname, I wouldn't be against it, but the question is, does he even need it? Where's the logic in that? Why waste his time on someone else, even if you've been friends since childhood?
And the whole game and a few moves are still different things.

Added 3 minutes later

Wicc