Posts from Time is money, or are you going to waste it? Auto-translated

Yes.


Why? It's true in battle, but not on a "clean" turn; think everything through in advance during your opponent's turn. The timer will start to feel more pressing in the late game when 70% of the map has been explored and when you can plan your entire turn with 90% certainty.

I don't deny this, but there is also an early stage of the game when the map is not revealed. And in the mid and late stages, when demons are being culled and converted into skeletons, and all sorts of junk, the volume of actions for one player will increase significantly, which will take a lot of time. If playing as Inferno, which is already a weak faction, requires micromanaging for the first week with footmen, saving imps, compared to Rampart, then in the next stage, even more time will have to be spent on culling, where sometimes you will have to calculate how much meat to cull, which is one of the main tasks for Inferno. The strategy of playing as Inferno takes more time.

I am a proponent of playing simple SoD (i.e., without battle timers), but with the minimum possible turn time. That is, 4 min even for XL+U is normal, which Stinger also confirmed.
The second alternative is to have a timer in battles as well—but so far there are no technical implementations of this (aside from VT) and few people would want it, because Max is right: the slaughtering of demons, for example.

I also suggested that Baratoch implement time tracking (like the Chinese do), measuring how much time each player spends on their turn to create a rating of "slugs" (Numvan's idea). I think this will either spur the slugs or show others that it's better not to play with such people.
Baratoch said he would do it.

As for skill, and how more can be achieved with more time...
Back in the day there were inter-portal tournaments; we crushed everyone, CIS players were strong in Heroes. Now, judging by the last two inter-portals, I think we've all been owned? Even by the Poles, not to mention the Chinese with their love for 2-4 minutes.
They are pros, while here, excuse me, a swamp has flourished.

it's high time to reduce the game time; spending 7-15 hours on a single game is excessive, I support the author.

To all fans of blitz games, stay tuned for updates – M-200 Tournament #6 is just around the corner!

To all fans of blitz games, stay tuned for news, Tournament M-200 No. 6 is just around the corner ;)

where in the thread was it written that we are talking about a chess timer with pause in battles???

2R55Max. OK. Let me also be brief and try to explain everything point by point. I only suggest splitting our discussion into two independent components: 1. chess timer 2. time in battle. The chess timer can indeed pause during battle. And time in battle can run with the SoD timer (well, at least it can be made to). If you agree, then let's go.

1. Chess timer.

What are chess and a chess timer? - it's a tribute to an equal amount of time in absolutely identical conditions without external factors, except for the starting color, and all tactics stem from there. White moves, Black tries to figure him out and defend, at best counterattack. All actions of both players are confined solely to a battle of wits. Each sees the opponent's move and sees what they can do, but the one who sees further or the one who doesn't make a mistake wins. In Heroes, there's nothing close to this.

In your posts, for some reason you treat the chess timer and chess as one and the same. But in essence, a chess timer is just a type of time control that started being used in chess. Some people play chess with a Heroes timer. For example, 1 minute per move. So the timer is separate, the game is separate.

We play with different towns, heroes, armies, different opponents, we have a ton of various external factors, and besides, we don't see the board at all! Imagine a large board covered by a veil of darkness, a different number of pieces (heroes), and they even move any old how! What does a chess timer have to do with this???:confused: :confused:

Perhaps without realizing it yourself, you are now giving the biggest advantage of the chess timer for Heroes. Precisely the uncertainty and constantly unfolding prospects are the main argument in favor of the chess timer. Imagine a situation where you make a move that you planned during the opponent's turn, enter an unexplored zone, and there are 2 Griffin Conservatories! You need to urgently change the plan and grab them as quickly as possible... That's exactly where time accumulated earlier comes in handy for making a thoughtful and balanced decision.

Furthermore,

You write to me that e2-e4 takes a second, but where do you see e2-e4? In Heroes, moves are not the same, decisions are made based on constantly changing events depending on the map's explored state.

Again, spot on! But again, an argument in favor of the chess timer. By e2-e4, I meant a simple move. For example: scout heroes quickly gathered resources, the main hero walked along the road, nothing explored, a building was made in the castle. The move took 1 minute. Such moves happen.
In the case of using a chess timer, the player will have incentive to finish the move faster and save time in the bank, which will be needed during

constantly changing events depending on the map's explored state.

The chess timer (especially without pausing in battles) gives absolutely equal time to both players who are in completely different situations, playing with different towns. The inequality of the situation follows from this automatically.

Players are initially in different situations. Not only because of different towns, but also because of different layouts, etc. And the time given by the rules is the same. Therefore, it's entirely fair that the chess timer will monitor this even more strictly!

Now the conclusion. Advantages of the chess timer:
1. Using accumulated time to make complex decisions
2. Stimulates the player to finish the move faster to accumulate time, rather than just staring at the monitor waiting for time to run out
3. In case of complete depletion of the timer reserve, the player returns to the usual SoD timer or starts accumulating a reserve again.

I don't see a single disadvantage. Therefore, I position the chess timer as a mandatory innovation.

2. Time in battle runs
Time in battle is a controversial issue, and everyone has the right to stick to their usual position. Personally, I think this: For every action taken in the game, you must pay with time. An example with demonology was given here. I believe it's fair that the player who gets troops out of thin air pays for it with HIS OWN time, not with our shared time (his move + my waiting).

When one player has 2000 left and the other has 0 at the end, there is no difference if all moves are successfully completed. If the game turned out such that one player needed, for example, 4000 fewer clicks, then at the end of the game there will be a difference in remaining time of 2000 seconds.

Here, the player himself must decide what is better: 2000 seconds or 200 demons, which those seconds were spent on.

Then it was:

With a chess timer, someone really needs to kill zombies with harpies, while the opponent will swat twice as many golems with Grand Elves and spend less time, and if there are many such long guards (for harpies), then why should one spend more time on simple but longer battles?

And you take this fact into account when you choose your town, and that's it.
Don't reference specific cases of guards. Guards are completely random. One might get zombies, losing only time killing them with harpies, while the opponent might get not golems, but Evil Eyes, losing those same Grand Elves. What do you think is better?
Someone might even get several Griffin Conservatories near their castle, while the other gets only blocks. No timer will save you there. So don't reason about guards.

Overall, time in battle is a separate case. Everyone has their own opinion. I've just written my IMHO.

2. Time passes during combat

I agree with the first aspect, but the second one is not correct. I'll explain now. It's no secret that there are strong towns and weak ones; Inferno is one of the weak towns, and if we weaken it even further this way (essentially removing demon farming), then nobody will play it at all — in other words, we'll remove it from the game! But ideally, all towns should be at least roughly equal, otherwise why have restrictions (Conflux, Necro) in the rules? Never mind Inferno, we'd also significantly weaken a number of other towns in the process, and buff, say, Rampart, and then we'd have Rampart vs Castle games with no alternative. To bring these weakened towns back into the meta, we'd need to change the gameplay, which brings us to WoG. But WoG is no longer SoD — roughly speaking, it's "not the same thing" (then come arguments about what's better or worse). In short, we end up in a vicious circle.
In my opinion, the ideal would be to have a chess timer, with combat time starting after a minute; one minute would be enough for demon farming and would make things a bit easier against rushers, and the player wouldn't be under constant stress from watching the ticking timer.

start the time in battles after a minute.

interesting idea

In my opinion, it would be ideal to have a chess timer, and start the battle time after a minute. One minute is enough for demonstration and it will also make it easier to deal with slow players, and the player will not experience constant stress looking at the ticking timer.

Ideally, if this is implemented, no one in the community will be against such a timer!!!

so, Inferno is one of the weaker factions, and if you weaken it even further (essentially depriving it of its demonic theme), no one will play it, meaning we'll remove it from the game!

To solve this problem, people have long come up with a trade.

People have long ago come up with trading to solve this problem.

Balancing the forces through trading is a last resort. You could have simply added trading to the SOD and that would have balanced everything :D. Although, it's a good thing, no doubt.

And how do you trade when playing at 200%? With real money?))

Ihtiandr - в долг)

I think I understand what Dirty is getting at here. On the portal, there are at most 10 top players. Of those, I've seen Maretti, Pit, Gomunglus, and maybe Sevansan. So, Pit and Gomunglus play quite quickly, playing at a high level, meaning that in complex situations, they have minimal time to make decisions, in my opinion. BUT, most players simply can't immediately figure out what to do in a situation where there's a choice to be made, and there ALWAYS is (including me). Therefore, to beat Maretti, I and many others need to play unlimited time. So, it's best to play unlimited time with proven players. Thanks for your attention. Added after 18 minutes. On the other hand, it's unpleasant when a player spends 5 minutes on simple battles! That's where you need to set limits.

The point is that instead of learning to make quick decisions, people are demanding an increase in turn time. I don't think Maretti would be happy waiting half an hour while you take your turn in an online game.